How many on here can be described as a working person

In physics at skule, I learnt that work is defined as mass times distance moved. So I guess that working class income is NOT derived from any form of investment. In other words, one has to do something physically to be working class. That includes nearly all the professions.

Why indeed 1tp

Working people isn't working class and a rather
nebulous concept, but that's because of manifesto.

I,m working class and I no that if anytime over nearly last 50 yrs ,I,d said to a workmate ,
if you've got 10 grand spare put it in a high deposit acc or isa and get 400 quid a yr interest on it,the vast maj of them would say for the sake of 400 quid I,d rather have it where I can get it quickly if needed,
that's the difference between working class and middle/upper class who,d bite their own arm off to get their hands on the 400 quid ,
I've spent the last 40 yrs listening/hearing workmates talk over workmates out of free money from a company pension,on the basis of all pensions are a ripped off blah,blah, the wives best mate didn't join BT pension scheme one of best in business ,she,s now been there over 40 yrs and still didn't join it,on the basis of blah,blah,the money I put in pays for 2 weeks in magaluf etc

yes but if someone has 50 grand a yr to save from his wages or a 100,000 a yr to save as a couple from their wages the Maj of people wouldnt consider you to be working class, before taxes are mentioned anyone buying a 79p croissant in Waitrose is considered middle class by other working class people


It's a load of bow locks and the idiot currently nominally in charge of the country only proceeds to make himself look more of an idiot as each day passes. Which is quite implausible, as he's done a great deal of work in that area already.

Being able to get your 'cheque book' out [lol], says more about your attitude to life, risk, discipline and personable responsibility that it does about your inclination to work. It's actually a slap in the chops for people who would rather look after themselves, then get the begging bowl out.

Aye, savings culture has changed over my lifetime.

Having one premium bond made you middle class when I was a kid.

and right on point cider proves the point,the man leader of a party with a record of raising taxes is an idiot althought he,s yet to raise a tax
but a party running on a history of been so called tax cutters who have us at recorded tax levels, CGT allowance gone, dividend tax reintroduced, not a BEDWET in sight from anyone

Internet is a game changer, up to the point the internet became ubiquitous, we had to effectively had to rely on other people for financial knowledge. All the info we could ever need is now available at the press of a button. What we do with that knowledge is, of course, another matter entirely.

and right on point cider proves the point,the man leader of a party with a record of raising taxes is an idiot althought he,s yet to raise a tax


He held a press conference two months ago to especially tell us it would be the worst budget ever.

Leaving everyone to speculate for the intervening two months about what punishments are coming.

As the man is indeed, an idiot.

People were able to save pre internet days.

Remarkable

Thing is, the markets love the prudence of
this labour government.

Rather than chaos of tories.

Obviously. Access to information is a game changer. Nobody has to rely on their parents or a random teacher like I did.

They have Knots in their Stomach , That covers 80% of the country Since this Twaddle became PM

I know more about pensions than the pension 'experts' in work.

Pension experts don't seem very expert these daze.

There is more talent on these forums if you know where to look.

we no its a mostly rubbish but people saying their cashing in pension lump sums to avoid a starmmer bhit on 25% lump sum
only of use to those getting on in yrs,nearing retirement,assuming their big earners.big pension contributions, once they take their ,ump sum either by buying an annuity or a sipp the rest of their pot is activated so can only reinvest 4 grand a yr back in to their   pension so would be losing out on 40% tax relief for possibly yrs of contributions to avoid a tax that is almost certainly not going to happen

Well, I'll be up at 4 am tomorrow for work, so I suppose that might count.

good lad
just done my last shift this week,miss the crack what lottle there is left of it but wont miss the work,welding/boilewrmaking is hard graft and you feel it in your 60,s
I,ll be paying my sunak/Tory tax on my shares and what ever is thrown out way next week but wont be moaning about it

been retired for 1 year now having worked for 50 years. i am 66 now and intend not to work again

I would look to improve your pension knowledge 1st time poster if I were you.

66 next year but still doing 30 hours a week now I'm back in the building trade. Certainly earn more doing that than I can on here. Was looking at retiring next year but will keep going while I can. Train a few more apprentices up. Going forward they'll be living the high life, a real shortage of trades

we no its a mostly rubbish but people saying their cashing in pension lump sums to avoid a starmmer bhit on 25% lump sum
only of use to those getting on in yrs,nearing retirement,assuming their big earners.big pension contributions, once they take their ,ump sum either by buying an annuity or a sipp the rest of their pot is activated so can only reinvest 4 grand a yr back in to their   pension so would be losing out on 40% tax relief for possibly yrs of contributions to avoid a tax that is almost certainly not going to happen

all kinds of wrong information here

I'm certainly not a working person by Starmers latest definition thankfully. Did work my kn@ckers off for 50 years though before retiring 5 years ago.

There is a big difference between the Tories  raising taxes and Labour raising taxes when you specifically promised in your election manifesto not to.

It's the bare faced lying that the people hate.

Throw in "gangs smashed" and "fully costed , fully funded" and the lies just keep coming.

Labour was clearly wrong on it's tax promises bearing in mind that the previous Tory governments of the past 14 years had brought about the very reason for such tax increases.

You can't scream for "Covid support"   "Energy price support"  "Cost of living support "  and not expect to pay for it somewhere down the line.

Unless of course you expect to receive the support but somebody else to pay for it ? - which I think too many do tbh.

you cant just take 25% of a pension pot and carry on paying in as much as you like to what's remaining of the pot and get 20/40% tax relief on those contributions, when you take 25% of your pot the whole pot becomes crystalised and subject to different rules that it was when uncrystalised

Incorrect.

& mpaa is £10k

for now!

bit of a cheek for MPs to define working people. A large chunk of 'em haven't worked a day in their lives. University>parliamentary assistant>safe seat>minster.

It's not just this lot are raising taxes. Not different to Tories. They have absolutely no idea what they are doing. Plus, there is more than a stench of deliberately punishing people. People who don't need or want to go to taxpayers with a begging bowl, or are living off self sufficient means.

Can't do it without impacting a lot of what they see as their own people either, though. Seems inevitable it will blow up on their faces unless they bottle out at the last moment.

its not 1ok its been reduced to stop people taking the pish in situations,but even 10 grand to those investing much more and getting 4 grand in every 10 in tax relief,is a big hit hit to take to avoid a tax which may or may not be happening ,I,d guess there,ll be no change to 25% tax free on pots under a million pound or maybe higher

I recently crystalized a pot of just over 200,000 in to drawdown sipp and was told I cant reinvest more than 4 grand a yr in to it,its to stop taking 10 grand out and reinvesting it to get 2 grand tax relief on it or 4 grand if your a higher rate taxpayer, its frowned upon by pension providers

It is 10k and only triggered when income is taken. For example, people aged 55 or more can move a pot into flexi-access drawdown without taking income, this is not a triggering event (not that I am advising them to do it).

Easy to see Labour meddling with the tfls in one way or another (none good for us). But exactly how and when, guesswork.

....Income Tax..N.I....CGT...VAT...Fuel Duty...Alcohol Duty..Council Tax...Stamp Duty...Airport Duty....Road Fund Duty....have I missed anything ?

Recycling is something different entirely. But nobody can be accused of recycling until they start taking income.

ist time poster - you are a clueless clown - despite being told you are incorrect, you keep spouting nonsense instead of researching the correct rules.

I,m speaking of what I was told when actually crystalising a pension pot a month ago,the maximum I can reinvest is 4 grand a yr, I don't need to look up anything

someone said this and that on the Betfair forum doesn't cut it in the real world

well next time someone "tells" you something how about listening to what they say.

and certainly anything you say on the betfair forum doesn't bear any relation to the real world

I,m speaking of what I was told when actually crystalising a pension pot a month ago,the maximum I can reinvest is 4 grand a yr, I don't need to look up anything


Deary me, hope this wasn't a professional.

I thought you might have retired anyway, so no earned income? If that's the case, your annual limit is 2880 before relief.

One of the pension companies I have money with gave me advice almost
exactly the same as 1tp is reporting that he was told.

Worrying, if wrong info is systematically being given.

cider is conflating 2 different situations
which goes to prove the original point been discussed more wildly on social media of people flocking to take their 25% lump sum thinking they can then just carry on investing in to the same pot for as much as they like  getting the same tax relief isnt as simple as they make it out to be and wont be the right decision for many in trying to avoid a change that may or may not be coming,

How many on ere under 50

No, I'm not 1st timer. But you don't understand what you're talking about.

An yes, people may well be claiming to access their pots without knowing what they are doing as well.

'social media' is not the place to take a financial lead from. there are some good yt channels though, eg James Shack.

ffs

a) if you flexibly access the income element of a defined contribution pension you are limited to £10k annual contribution.

b) if you have retired and have no earned income from employment, you are restricted to £3.6k after tax.

c) if you have taken a tax free lump sum with the intention of reinvesting it, the entire lump sum is an unathorised payment and will be subject to punitive tax charges. The "intention" aspect is very vague and there are many factors considered, the main one being that contributions have been materially increased seemingly because of the availability of the lump sum.

you are restricted to £3.6k before tax

It's net, 2880 paid in. tax relief brings it to 3600

The poor loophole I find is that db income can be recycled. Hugely benefits public sector tho, so unlikely to be closed by either of the duopoly.

the recycling law only refers to lump sums

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/25/section/159

yep, so health workers can take early nhs retirement and recycle income into private sipp if taking up work in private sector. and there are workarounds with lump sums, as you know.

in my view once db is in payment then should not be allowed to contribute to dc scheme

or maybe that comes in at a payment threshold, say £4K per annum. I wouldn't apply it to trivial db income.

that's a bit of a pathetic gripe tbh - and I know a private sector bod who did exactly what you describe even more dramatically as he used his db pension so he didn't need to take almost anything but ex's from his contracting company.

If a dc bod baught an annuity, they could do the same, but they don't because most prefer to remain invested in the tax free environment.

1st time poster 26 Oct 24 13:14 
someone said this and that on the Betfair forum doesn't cut it in the real world

.......................

I've dealt with plenty of pension experts the last 2 years, there are three people on this thread
I'd trust more for advice.

might be pathetic lol but I know of people rinsing the exact loophole I've outlined. PS pensions are far too generous as it is, without the taxpayer being rinsed thru recycling of PS pension income.

yes it could be done using annuity for private people, but even after the repricing of annuities, index linked ones are incredibly expensive, and not efficient if you have beneficiaries.

It's earned income that's being contributed. The £3600 contribution without earnings is prob a far bigger leak

When are the budget changes likely to take effect? In other words, is it worth filling up the car and going out to get leathered before they hike up petrol and beer tax?

vice taxes are usually midnight, things like changes to pension tax are usually immediate as they could cause market issues. eg loads of ppl cashing in investments

Ta dave

most likely the 3600 will be liable to tax upon drawing the income aside from tax free element, so it's pretty marginal. not a lot of people use the free money option I suspect, though.

I mean, how many people even now will be keeping cash in very low interest bank accounts due to inertia. £billions in them. Many people still don't know the basics, alas.

most likely the 3600 will be liable to tax upon drawing the income aside from tax free element

and so will the conts that you were moaning about.

Not if they are getting 40% relief

20% on drawing down, after tax free element

the biggest leak in history was public sector workers giving up £100 income per £800 lump sum when the market rate was £2500 per £100.

looks like a few Workers turned up at Parliament to tell Starmer what they thought of him

Expect classic cars to now be subject to road tax
Easy fix
To get more electric cars
sorry
freezers

They used to put fuel duty up at 5 or 6pm
after budget, and beer at midnite

Give folk a chance to fill up...

Should be all right re fuel duty, as working people drive to work. Don't they ?

even ones with cheque books

can remember my mam and dad sending me down to offey to get asw many ciggies as they could afford after the budget announcements, been a bit tight they  eventualy priced themselves out of smoking about 40 yrs ago and dad still going at 91 so a good tax in many ways I suppose

as a kid I remember buying my dad those Xmas decorated boxes of ciggies with 50 ciggies in them

Go down the shop with a note because I was underage, lol.

as a kid my dad paid me to go and pay his union subs at local  village hall,every few months,they used to say he,s still alive /working then,tell him we don't bite

people regularly used to join the queue to save a few quid filling car up on budget night, nowadays they,d have to rush home to pay someone for delivering their takeaway

All on bikes round here.

Takeaway tax would be good but it's already vatted.

I,m a deliveroo/just eat virgin or tight get as its known to the grandkids

I've noticed family 2 doors down have moved on from takeaway suppers,to takeaway teatimes to takeaway hangover cures on a sat/sun morning,

No word of a lie, couple who live near me get a takeaway every night.

do you both stare out the window or have you embraced tech and use webcams?

anything I miss the wife  see,s it anything we both miss the mother in law the next door neighbour on  the other side picks up on,we've got all bases covered

Neighbourhood watch...

If someone farts round here I know about it.

50% increase in bus FARES
Labor keeps Britain
MOVING
Not

the price of bus fares have never gone down,t5he bus companies have always got the full price of a journey the taxpayer just payer just pays any cost above 2 quid to the bus operator

Bus privatisation in 1986 is responsible for the vasy majority of problems in that field.

*vast majority.

According to Starnes u can now self identify as a working person,not sure if u need a dr certificate

All fodder are working class….tbh.

everyone going to extremes pretending to be a bot thick,but if everyone who works for a living is considered a worker it only leaves 3 groups to tax and I,m certain millions Maj from the right will say the royals are workers,which leaves 2 groups

non working people on benefits
non working pensioners

how much you taxing either or both ?

sparrow 28 Oct 24 15:28 
Bus privatisation in 1986 is responsible for the vasy majority of problems in that field.

............................

I can remember any bus ride in Sheffield was 2p sparrow, is that when it ended?

If they ever tax IQ or common sense then most of this Forum have no worries!!! HTH

saddo 28 Oct 24 18:57

I can remember any bus ride in Sheffield was 2p sparrow, is that when it ended?



Sheffield in the late 70s or 80s as I recall had a very left wing policy regarding their fares policy and the 2p fares which was unique at the time although a similar policy was later adopted by the GLC In London. I wouldn't be too sure as to when the Sheffield policy ended.

Yes, I remember the council paid the tab.

Everyone outside the circus on the Thames are fodder,including high rollers and overpaid sports and celebrities….

Tax paying fodder…..Bla….

Someone else paying is definitely old school left wing! I guess they pay for the cars now, under the motability hack.

Drinks duty cut in Budget
Obviously for workers
ONLY