The greatest of them all..... Vincent OBrien Documentary Racing Legend.

I'll watch it later, thanks sparrow

Seconnd greatest.

Second to nobody with his record.

Aye second.

Nah Acey, you surely cant have him behind AOB ?

Different strokes, but Vincent was a trainer of all horses.  AOB has the best of all the blue blood available so should be getting the results.
Just look at Vincents NH record - that's training skill, not down to having the best offspring from the best mares.

Or are you meaning Sir Henry ? 
VOB was before my time, so I dont know enough to have a valid opinion.

Father forgive them.

You'll have to forgive me Acey, as I dont know to whom you are referring so you'll have to enlighten me plse

Acey, have you watched this documentary?

No but i will get round to it as i was a massive fan sparrow.

Can you answer my question plse Acey as I would like to know who you would rank ahead of the master Vincent ? Thanks

D Wayne Lucas and Andre Fabre have entered the chat.

The One And Only...

I worked for one of the Greats for about 7 Years Major Hern, but Aiden is The Master imho.

Really acey ?  Sorry, but I dont agree.
You will be aware the old saying / words to the effect that you can train a derby winner out of a garden shed.

Basically if its good enough to win a derby , you can train it from anywhere and pretty much anyone can get it straight for the day.

AOB picks up races because he has the best bred thoroughbreds, not necessarily because he is a better trainer than other top 10 trainer in Ire or Uk. If you swapped trainers at Ballydoyle could others have a similar record with the horses he has at his disposal ?   Probably yes. Stick Stoutey in there 15 years ago, Beckett now, Baldy, they all could do the same give or take a little. 

You know from working in racing it is the lesser races that take the skill in winning with average horses.  Its harder to win a run of the mill race with an average horse than it is to win a derby with the best horse.   

When you look at Vincents record - was it 3 gold cups and 3 or 4 grand nationals in consecutive years with different horses ?  This is from memory so apologies if I am a little bit out with the facts, but that takes some doing. 

Sorry  Cardinal but I dont know enough about Fabre or wayne D Lukas as I dont follow foreign racing other than the odd glance.  I do know they stand above their peers.

vincent, hern, stoute, cecil harwood  etc were in an era of great trainers where competition was tough, aiden has got zero opposition other than occassionly gosden and godolphin  . aiden would just be an other in those days

ps i went down to the rowley mile course few months back, and there was flags on the side of the drive naming all the last 10 years or so  1000 and 2000 winners , mainly were aidens, and truthfully 90% of them werent really good and actually id forgotten about them

AOB is trying to do what Andre Fabre did way back in 1993

Win the Breeders Cup Classic

That was a phenomenal acheivement and stunned the Yanks

AOB is not just but very great, his tally of Breeders Cup winners shows this, the notion that in another era he would be ordinary is

Nonsense On Stilts

My point is that Andre Fabre is also not just great but very great

sorry many of his group1 winners  would hardly win group3 in the 90s etc , and he still cant produce a brave, frankel, sea the stars

No sensible person would suggest this tally of Yank winners was against no competition.  AOB is very great and has perhaps another 20+ years in front of him.



Andre Fabre is also very great

Nah Acey, you surely cant have him behind AOB ?

Different strokes, but Vincent was a trainer of all horses.  AOB has the best of all the blue blood available so should be getting the results.
Just look at Vincents NH record - that's training skill, not down to having the best offspring from the best mares.

Or are you meaning Sir Henry ?
VOB was before my time, so I dont know enough to have a valid opinion.

Aiden was one of the best NH trainers ever imo.....

Look at where Vincent came from having to make his living by landing gambles. Not something Aidan or Henry had to rely on.

You are correct again,Sparrow.With the bloodlines and finance behind him,AOB would have to be an idiot to fail.Vincent’s NH record stands alone.

Vincent never sent 2 or 3 horses to do one horse's job.
Vincent never walked the course with an entourage in full view of everybody,
if he did, he and Lester sneaked in around 5 in the morning.

Pilsudski -do you remember the support Peter Chapple-Ham got from Sangster/Magnier.Despite multiple classic winners he wasn't able for the pressure of the job -was he an idiot.

Nobody -Vincent was no stranger to having multiple winners in a Group 1 and sometimes the outsider won.How do you know Vincent never walked the track with an entourage.

Eddie, multiple winners would've been a neat trick and [2], he told me he never did it in public,thought it too common and beneath him.

That's definitely up there with the most ridiculous and pompous statements i've seen on here in 20 years Nogoody   

Pilsudski17 Oct 24 09:59
You are correct again,Sparrow.With the bloodlines and finance behind him,AOB would have to be an idiot to fail.Vincent’s NH record stands alone.

Sorry but that statemend is just ridiculous Aiden is gifted and anybody that can not see that husny got a clue.

Coolmore was not the force it has become until AOB arrived, last decade of Vincent O Brien were patchy at best.

1985 - 1997 ish what was the picture?

Both brilliant but Aiden has the edge for me.Each to there own i suppose.

I'm not even saying AOB is greater than Vincent, both clearly very great.

Thanks Hayden, that's pretty much what I was aiming at, although I concede that it may have presented as a tad pompous to someone from the lower classes.

I notice that no one wants to refer to Vincent having to land gambles when starting up as opposed to others who had no such worries.  Also looking at the success in the NH field shows to me something that can never be repeated. Aidan an excellent trainer but I doubt he could ever have achieved the same as Vincent did in his day.