Leaving Betfair Exchange?

They all gone daq,smark and match

I think this platform will - given time - be used mainly as a market-maker for bookies at racecourses and betting shops.

Right, Impos, it's been like that for years - only difference now is that liquidity continues to drain away!

it was ALWAYS going to die a long slow death imv...

i predicted i would be gone after Cheltenham a few years ago now...

i genuinely felt that way...

things have slowly got worse but they are now getting pretty desperate imv...

come the spring i fear it will be at the pointless stage tbh.

the start of the downfall was the introduction of the greedy Premium Charge...

after that it was only a matter of time i'm afraid.

Is that correct Freddie ?  I thought the others were doing ok, from what other users have said on here ?

i don't question what is happening behind the scenes. If I want to place a bet and the Betfair price is better than the industry prices shown on TV (or in the case of place only Tote place) then I bet with the exchange. I could not care less who is laying my bet. The roughly 10% more that I get from a win bet is the difference between a 1% loss in a year and 10% loss. No brainer. I bet purely to challenge myself to find winners and no amount of "pretend" bets can compare with risking money at how ever small a stake. I do agree that on week days particularly, the market only really forms in the last 5 minutes and Betfair SP is usually the best option.

I have no intentions on going back to bookmaker betting thank you. Not an in running punter so see no reason to return to the 1990s and be unable to bet place only or lay horses and not interested in betting ten hours before the off either. 101% markets are not available with bookmakers as fasr as I recall.

*far as I recall.

I was early for a lunch meeting last week. So i decided to step into a bookies for the first time in many many years to wait. There was a 5 dog race. The fave was 7/4. 2nd F 2/1. 3rd F 9/4. No thank you very much.

and 10/1 and 10/1?

5 & 6

Think if you're (like me) a relatively low stakes recreational but serious punter BF is still ok (but liquidity clearly on the decline) but if you're a high staking player(especially one who punts for a living) you're -like Holder - finding this place unsatisfactory now.

Or a tax on all winning bets that ensured that very few could make a profit. I am old enough to remember when off course betting of any kind was illegal unless you had a credit account. Only legalised in 1960. We so easily accept progress and keep moaning.
My betting progress was:
2-10yo 1946-1954 Grandfather putting sixpence on a horse I chose at a point to point.
12yo approx. Having an on course Tote bet at Cheltenham that won but I had to recruit an adult to collect the winnings.
18yo-22yo 1962-66 went to University and soon found a betting shop. Blower commentary and odds chalker of course. Doing Agriculture at Reading I soon found some kindred spirits, many of them from families who had horses or knew people who did. A profitable time despite the odds.
28yo onwards. Went racing regularly and had accounts with Tote Credit and the rails bookies. Still had a telephone account with a local bookie for other days. I worked from 6-12am and 6-8 or 9pm in case you are wondering.
56-75yo. Retired so went racing even more often.
       
75yo until today. Just play around on Betfair to minimum stakes and lose about £150 a year for my pleasure. I no longer enjoy the driving and standing around on course.

Congrats on surviving to a ripe age like what I have done. For me, it's all about quality not quantity.

True Slicer. I must admit though that if I didn't keep hearing about people that die at 80 I would not be at all concerned about my health

Were you a cleaner at the university?

Mr Sageform- some actuarial tables show that a male in generally good health over 80 can expect around 6 more years. So don't fret, just enjoy.

Has there ever been a period since 2008 when it actually got better?  It's got progressively worse year on year.  The only thing that will ever improve it is outside regulations opening the exchange to new markets and doesn't like that will happen for the foreseeable future.

I quit gambling dominating my life after the Rio Olympics 2016.  About a year later something that I was hoping to do fell through, and I realised I needed more money for my kids to get through university and help them potentially buy a property, so started gambling more seriously again, but not to the same level as pre 2016.  Quit again at the end of 2022, (closed any third party operations), but still gamble and make money, just far less often, and with the mindset that I don't need to win.  No point quitting altogether

Life expectancy for men at aged 80 is 8.34 years, and that includes everyone so I'd say nearer 10 is more likely for someone in good health Slicer

30% reach 90 and 0.1% reach 100

0.14% to 3 decimal places

The place deserves to die there customer service is fakin shocking.

Can you recommend a bookmaker who has a good customer service, acey?

Thanks Mr 29. Admittedly I did look at old tables a few years ago. Not sure that figure applies to the mid 80s.  However with everything that's going on in the UK & the world & impending inevitable declining health, I'd rather have my figure than yours! There has been no ceasefire on Natures war on the aged. We take a little bit longer to decay, that's all!!

Surely nobody as bad as this mob sparrow.

I wouldn't know acey as I only using the exchange and so that is why I ask.

*use the exchange

Die Linke, what makes you say that? We had a cleaner do our room in Hall daily in those days. My 2 years without betting were spent getting a masters degree at Cornell in USA. No betting shops there.

Profit since I started prolly something like this. 

Betfair 45-50%
Other online 15-20%
Cash shop bets 10-15%
3rd Party Involvement 20-25%

At one stage pre PC, Betfair was 70%.  I've never been banned from any shop.  In 2014 I was careless and the manageress told me I was now being monitored.  I placed a sizeable bad bet (which lost) as a hedge against a big profit, (which came in)  I made the stupid decision that because it was a bad bet it would be ok

I don't see many youngsters being brought through to betfair.

Some good posts above, and moving bulk of betting from bookies
to betfair was a no brainer. Sometimes not by choice too!!!

Bookies won't ban mug acca bettors and bet builder losers
so they won't migrate to betfair.

Its over for Betfair,they rotated horse race positions in an active betting market once again.This time in the 13.50 at PUNCH.
another couple of hundred customers will leave,and this time it will be bookmakers .

Anyone on ere under 40

Doubt it

For the naive betting fraternity, of which I am a member, would Brassneck please expand and explain why 'rotating horse positions' upsets him so much. Anybody else holds his views?

try laying four horses in a race and you will understand."oh i forgot ,it says on my written contract with betfair that Betfair staff are not allowed to gamble with their company"

"Brassneck" why don't you "pin" the horses you want to lay or "pin" the whole race.
No movement when "pinned"

Movement is illegal, its called manipulation of a financial market,check it out.

Someone will end up in  jail and then you will believe me.

Some right doom and gloom going on - cheer up, and be thankful exchanges were ever invented IMO.

Is the OP just copying the article from the Racing Post?

After PC the nag markets plateaued until 2016 that is when the real decline started

I still can't get what problem brassneck means. They do not change the order of the horses in running do they? I get annoyed when the order of horses in a race is not in order of price up to start time. I can see that it can't be adjusted every second but once every minute seems about right. The best way to alert us that a horse is being backed is to move it up the list?

i do know what Brassneck means, ive been caught out few times by trading on this matter

they rotated horses in running during cheltenham festival.Both trained by Gordon Elliott and both 3/1 joint favs
.They have also rotated 4 horse fields.

And they will never get their lost  customers back until they let punters know that they have stopped this illegal action.
but by doing that they will be admitting guilt..its catch 22 for betfair.

In-running using betfair should be made illegal, why? It's not a 100% live - there's a few seconds delay meaning a huge advantage to the privileged in-running "players/market traders" on the track or drone operators.

I'm surprised betfair has not been taken to court and charged for being complicit to "cheating" as the sole operator of this sharp practice. This is not a level-playing field. Also, betfair receives a financial benefit from it.

Think the view rather depends on whether your glass is either half full or half empty impossible , i'm not an in-running horse racing player personally but if i was i'd take the alternate view and buy a drone.
Anyone who stands still in this game generally ends up as a compulsive moaner , so you're far better off concentrating on solutions rather than bleating on about issues that have been covered a million times.
Look after No1 and let the rest look after themselves , it's dog eat dog out there as we're all competing against each other but punters waiting for things to change to benefit them have a disappointing gambling life ahead.


Good luck today mate   

There are some who play in-running on the slow pictures and still get enjoyment (and a few make profit) despite knowing they are at a timing disadvantage.

The sad reality is the genuine horseracing fans and punters ie the recreational ones are depleting (and aging) and soon most will not be bothered with accountability checks and bet restriction except doing the occasional multiples for fun if the races are on tv. I consider myself as one of these aging recreationals.

Believe it or not I used to play in-running a short period out of boredom, but soon realised the disadvantage and stopped altogether; tv pictures are even slower than those on betfair. But, each to his/her own.

Horseracing is unlike gambling in the City with a regulator intent on upholding integrity, professionalism, security and governance.

I've shifted my mind set over the last few months, and of life in general, that I don't mind sharing. Do I really need numbers on a screen or pieces of paper to buy things I don't really need?

The answer I ultimately came up with is NO. Sure, I need food and housing and to keep myself healthy to the best of the situation I find myself in.

I still love horse racing and will always. But over the years I will limit myself to a few small fun bets for some interest.

[b]Horse racing is unlike gambling in the City with a regulator intent on upholding integrity, professionalism, security and governance.[/b]  Another BINGO impossible! This seems to happen a lot when I read your posts You seem to hit the nail on the head so to speak!

In fact, horse racing has a conflict of interest. Because you really think they want the well backed Fav of big races winning? Absolutely not good for the levy, or their own personal windfalls.

Respect for that post Trident , every punter should have identified what they want out of the game and set their goals accordingly , takes guts to firstly change then openly state on a public forum.

Best of luck mate   

Horseracing on here is clearly declining - but horserace gambling is a sector in long-term decline generally.

Is anyone on here (maybe some of the more professional types?) also sufficiently engaged with Football, Cricket, Tennis, Golf etc markets to know if they are holding up or also declining?

Cricket is plateauing but plateauing at a very high level.

Oct 17, 2024 -- 9:21AM, Hayden wrote:

Respect for that post Trident , every punter should have identified what they want out of the game and set their goals accordingly , takes guts to firstly change then openly state on a public forum.Best of luck mate

Oct 17, 2024 -- 11:26AM, longbridge wrote:

Horseracing on here is clearly declining - but horserace gambling is a sector in long-term decline generally.Is anyone on here (maybe some of the more professional types?) also sufficiently engaged with Football, Cricket, Tennis, Golf etc markets to know if they are holding up or also declining?

Nice comment. Best of Luck on your journey too

sounds about right CS..

match odds market are certainly bigger than they were pre premium charge..some of the side markets (top bat etc)  have never really recovered from that though..

I'm more than sufficiently engaged in Cricket & Tennis in-play longbridge at very low laying odds , occasionally lay the leader at sub 1.3 in final round Golf tournaments but have zero interest following/trading Soccer or Slots.

One thing about Cricket as Card says , you don't have to worry about liquidity as is more or less the case with Tennis   

£5 £10 £20 £50 pound bets 5 mins before the off on Betfair you will almost certainly get the price you want easily.

Big meetings you can get reasonably sized bets on. I'm not as negative about the exchange as most on here. I understand if you're an in running player or bet/trade big, it's time to go, perhaps.

If you bet outsiders for small stakes, like I often did!, you can get some Very big prices (sometimes over double industry SP)  on horses compared to the bookmakers still. The exchange still has its place for me.

It was brilliant before it merged with that scummy bookie

Agree with most of that trident.

Pandora made millions before merger. Now only  winning thousands

In the first race at Brighton today this  exchange had posted up the winner 22 seconds before the race had even begun on sky sports racing.

Much the same at Wincanton in the first race where betfair showed the winner while RUK showed the runners racing in the back straight!

How anyone backing or laying and making it pay just from watching the tv pictures is beyond me.

Are you using a firestick Kenneth or some free link   

what's the frequency Kenneth?

kenny are you avinalaff after all these years?

i do hope so

I see what you did there Swifty.

Dial up ?

check TIVO pause amount in that one Kenneth

@pandora

"It was brilliant before it merged with that scummy bookie"

You wouldn't have had that impression from reading the complaints on here when I first joined in 2010/11,,,

The original spirit of the company disappeared well before then tbf longbridge..

I remember the days when you rang the BF helpdesk and someone who knew their stuff answered within 10 seconds.

Going back to in running. Of course you should not rely on making a decision based on the TV feed. if I want to lay off a bet I put it up at the price I choose and select keep. That way if your choice falls to that price and there is anyone out there betting in running you lay off. It does not work well in France as there are so few people on here for the early meetings. I have seen horses in France that should be long odds on when clear at the 100 metre pole still showing at 3 or 4 when the race is suspended.

Remember when their slogan was "Join the Revolution".

Betfair didn't even exist when George Orwell wrote Animal Farm, and yet it is the perfect allegory for what has occurred.
Also not a bad effort on his part regarding the Russian Revolution!