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In this week's column, Segal seems to be saying that he doesn't think Frankel could have beaten City of Troy in the Juddmonte. Not sure I've heard an opinion about racing I find more offensive. Official ratings would suggest Frankel would have beaten him by open daylight (143/129) ... but apparently COT would have just found more when Frrankel loomed upsides. Utter drivel. Profoundly insulting because there's no attempt to build up an argument. It's just a feelin'.
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Nick Mordin wrote a book called 'Winning without thinking'. Several years later Tom Segal was the author of this one...
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Never understand why people get upset about this sort of thing. It's just his opinion. Whether he is just attention seeking who knows?
Two things upset me more. This idea that the views of the likes of Segal and Walsh, to name two, are actually more important than anyone else. They are not in any shape or form a definitive view. Then the recency bias as if everyone is too lazy to explore the history of the sport. There were loads of great horses before the likes of Frankel and Sea The Stars. |
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he,s basically saying people at timeform haven't a clue what their talking about, a punter says that and segal will be all over the punter defending timeform
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so we can assume segal is not one of the so called good judges who think under different circumstances the French horse might beat COT or is he saying the French horse would also beat Frankel ?
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COT beat 1 other group one ,winner in that race,some weapons grade assumptions based on that,that he,d turn Frankel over
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Can someone post the full article?
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Another decade vs decade thread that'll get nowhere and prove nothing , time better served looking through todays cards for all you form students.
It's very easy to be dogmatic about something that can never be proven and ratings comparisons are worthless , imagine using ratings as a selection criteria for daily bread and butter racing , you'd end up in the poorest of poor houses. Good luck today all  |
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Clearly you cannot prove anything for sure, but Timeform ratings are not meaningless. There is no harm in gentle debate. Just don't take it too seriously. History is one the main things racing has going for it, and I would much rather emrace it, than ignore it.
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Surprised if they go to America……certain defeat imv
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Zoffany nearly beat Frankel and nobody calls him a world beater.
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inconsequential hypothetical nonsense.
next. |
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What about Calandagan ridden closer and not having to do the quickest furlong of the race ( 10.74 ) to get close ? Interesting although it was a course record it was only the 15th
quickest timefigure ( COT ) of the race this century ( timeform ) |
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It is worthless thinking about COT v Frankel. But sometimes you are faced with deciding whether a great horse can be outstayed by a very good horse. It happened in '72 in this race.
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I'm old enough to remember when TS tipped Roberto to beat the Brigadier and everybody laughed. No one was laughing when Braulio Baeza returned to the winner's enclosure!
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Hang on, I might be getting TS confused with Prince Moneylulu there.
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🤪
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Utter sh1t on the opinion of Tom Segal is OP is correct. I think Frankel and Dancing Brave could carry City Of Troy anyday, anywhere without breaking sweat.
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You will know the truth if they go for the classic….personally I think they will bottle it….
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You'll never know the truth Ace as there'll be far too many different versions , as stated it's easy to be dogmatic over something that can never be proven
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A tough race Hayden……
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Of course but hacking up still won't enable any definitive outcome on decade vs decade , all you'd do is muddy the waters even more by comparing a globetrotting champion vs a past champion that barely left its own postcode.
The outcome will always be what you want to believe it to be How many bets you had or planning to have today Ace. |
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Protest Rally in the last at Musselburgh…..win & place……
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C&D fit as a flea…..7lb claim Bla bla it’s all there when you dig the form tbh….
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Some of you get the journalism you deserve!
Royal Rhyme, rated 113:pressed leader, etc, beaten 11 lengths. Excelebration, rated 125: prominent, unable to go with winner, etc, beaten 11 lengths. I think Frankel would have been able to get by City of Troy. But we're all entitled to our opinions of course. All valid. Madonna just as valuable as Mozart etc etc. |
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5f?
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All valid indeed Howellsy , it's just that my view is that i haven't got a clue regarding the outcome.
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Match race, even money. Who would you back?
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Over a mile Frankel , no idea over 10f or beyond , purely on gut feeling with nothing to substantiate.
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Over a mile, Frankel no offers, 10f, Frankel 1/2..but that might be big!!... 12f.....I think Frankel would probably go off a shade of odds on. IMO
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Frankel over any of those distances....and Sea The Stars or Dancing Brave too over any of those distances too against COT.
We're too desperate to create the next greatest ever, don't think COTis the next one and nothing we've seen so far points to him being so. |
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Does the seagull understand ratings. There's a 14lbs difference between the 2. It's known as evidence.
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If there's one thing the OR of a horse is slickster it certainly isn't evidence , it's either an opinion or an estimate , take your pick
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Not sure why anyone would get so annoyed by this.
The OP thinks Frankel would win, TS thinks COT would win, just differing options, what's wrong with that ? |
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Probably because there's a 14lbs difference in ratings. City may get that to 10lbs in time but that's a massive difference. Seagull needs pensioning off.
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Picking winners must be easy for you slickster being such a believer in ratings being factual , just back the top rated.
laying , perfectly sensible post as it's what we do on a daily basis , generally disagree with each other and/or the official ratings. Good luck tonight guys |
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voicing controversial opinions gets you hits on social media
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so following seagulls logic any horse rated within 15 lb of frankel coould on any given date under certain circumstances beat Frankel,its going to be a long list
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What about Flightline, Equinox, or Enable? would one not have given Frankel or City of Troy a run for their money?
Not too sure how good they were in comparison, because they need a worthy opponent(s) to draw the performance out of them. Countless horses out of Ballydoyle have been billed as the next coming of Jesus, but, Galileo aside for stud reasons, none of them in AOB's tenure are spoken of in the same breath as Enable, Sea the Stars, Frankel, Dancing Brave. And he has had lots and lots of really good ones, King of kings, Rock of Gibraltar, Minding, Love, Dylan Thomas, Mastercraftsman, Rip Van Winkle, ****, Paddington, St Marks Bacilica, giants causeway, High Chapparal, St Nicholas Abbey, Camelot, Churchill, Hawk Wing. They almost get lost to history. |
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Istabraq would of beat them easy, no contest.
That's how easy it is to nonsense, now try talk sense and you have to have a reason for doing that!! Worlds gone mad. |