Today's Juddmonte overhyped

Of course it was hyped. City Of Troy is a very good horse. But, no Frankel, Dancing Brave or Sea the Stars.

ive mentioned on here the 1992 int, kooyonga muli  group 1 winner ( MIGHT HAVE BBEEN GROUP2THEN), TERIMON 2ND IN ECLIPSE 3RD IN DERBY, dr devious rodrigo multi group1s , ruby tiger dual nassau winner, all at sea 2nd in oaks, miles better than todays race

Unless your horse is out of control then it's never the hard way to try and make all. The opposite is more often than not true. Nothing really took the leader on which allowed Moore to dictate. He had a (much) better trip than the second.

It's the way of the world that races seemingly have to be hyped. I watched In The Know tonight and they continually hype up races, even though it should just be a tipping show. It's a very ordinary Yorkshire Oaks and Galtres tomorrow, but you will hear the exact opposite. Honesty thrown out the window.

That piece with Walsh was nothing short of pathetic. Picking out Sea The Stars and Frankel, and then coming back to seemingly suggest City Of Troy was up there with those two. Sounds like he's swallowed a bottle of cheerleading pills. People can make up their minds they don't need flannel like this as if it is some sort of definitive view. They also don't need a recency bias. If you know your history then you will know that there were many great horses before Sea The Stars.

Looking ahead I would far sooner see City Of Troy try to do the Derby/Arc double rather than go off on some US expedition.

Indeed. I'll laud COT with superlatives if he wins The ARC. But, connection will rather swim The Channel than attempt The Arc. I think today's Juddmonte was won by a Gp 1 race who'd the race run to suit. The Irish Champion Stake could turn out to be a higher quality field esp with Economics and White Birch show.

Ambiente Friendly needs a long holiday or drop down to Gp3 or Listed company for rejuvenation.

Personally I'd love to see him from the front end in the BC Classic... he'd end the year as the highest rated Horse on both Turf/Dirt. This would be a phenomenal achievement and I don't doubt that he could pull it off!

How can it be hype? Smashed the course record and won with any amount in hand, the horse won with an absolute ton left in the locker

And just take COT out the screen and how impressive would be Calandagan. Frankel was a 8f/10f horse you guys are not comparing like with like. I think this horse is better than Golden Horn and best since STS. And the trainer thinks better than Galileo.

Agree howard re the winner today.

Exactly Howard. For me he was never getting past COT but like you say, take him out of the race and you have a very impressive winner. I really believe we should be taking about COT in the same breath as those great Racehorses mentioned above. Just my opinion of course

*talking

strong cross wind which has aided todays times..certainly didnt win with a ton in hand but won well.

Tons in hand IMVHO

ewe watched a different race to me then.

Take City Of Troy out and Calandagan would have beaten a horse rated 112 3.5 lengths. Ghostwriter's biggest win came in what has turned out to be a very poor Royal Lodge. Bluestocking struggled to win anything last year, and although she has stepped up a little this season, it's not the strongest division. The 'greats' are pushing the 140's. Even with an upgrade City Of Troy is going to be nowhere near that as the second was rated 117. There's a case for suggesting that the front three have just ran somewhere near their marks.

I use my instincts and not just figures when assessing Racehorses. My instincts tell me todays performance isn't the ceiling of his ability, not even close. What does your instincts tell you about COT? Be honest, do you think he isn't better than his current rating and today is as good as it gets?

There's talk of COT doing the Arc & BC Classic double. Jesus, now that would be the double of all doubles! You'd love to see it.

yeah he looks like one that pulls out more when required on fast turf. He will take plenty of beating with those conditions. I said before the race if he beats Calandagan he is very good and that's what he did. As good as STS ? Don't think so but enjoy him. He's a great horse.

I think it's hard to bump his rating up based on the proximity of the second and third. They may of course decide to bump them all up. I do think City Of Troy has the potential to improve, but over a longer trip and ridden forward as he was today. Sadly, he may never get the chance to do that. Just looked at the Arc betting and he isn't close to the French Derby winner, and only a point shorter than the Grand Prix winner. That strongly suggests he isn't going to run.

If City Of Troy runs in The Arc and wins connections can demand Euro 1m for each mare he covers, and there will be no quibbling from potential customers. But, almost a ZERO chance of that happening.

City Of Troy is a good horse compared to his own age group and present elders. This lot is much of a muchness at the moment eg no Enable (134), no Golden Horn (134), no Cracksman (136). Still a good horse, but no superstar or Frankel.

Beggars belief to me as to why City of Troy has so many knockers after what it's achieved , give the horse a break 

What i would suggest though is if trained by Stoute the criticism or lack of faith would be far less and we all know what that means.


Good luck today all   

Probably stamped his covering fee already even if he runs in the Arc.
He's won 2 GP1s @ 10F.

Hayden,

I'm not sure what you mean by knocking a horse. Trying to assess the merit of performances is not knocking a horse. The alternative is to go down the route which we are continually force fed by the media that everything is great. If you think the horse is better than I do, that's fine. There is no right or wrong. It's a game of opinions.

No great fan of Stoute, but even in his prime he didn't make a habit of stating this horse is the best I have trained. That can become irritating. When he retires maybe, but not every season.

Fair enough dd maybe i worded it badly , just seems the horse is receiving far too little credit vs achievements and most continuously feel compelled to compare to a previous era when we all know that's a debate that'll never be in total agreement.
I'm all for enjoying the horse we have and you can only beat what's in front of you , plus credit the trainers who put reputations on the line.

As you say all about opinions   

A lot of ~Tosh said on here as per usual!
City Of Troy is the real Deal i still think there was quite a bit of juice left in the tank at the line.
This colt is improving rapidly and compare generation's is always in Vain as you just can't do it.

City of Troy is a very good 10f/12f horse, not a miler the Guineas proved that. The best of his generation by some way but everything suggests they are a very ordinary bunch. Whether he is a superstar, all time great, just an above average Derby winner or not even that is just a matter of opinion !

coolmore only have themselves to blame for any negativity towards the horse. last year he was "their Frankel" - then we were listening to ambitious plans of travers stakes/breeders cup. it seems to be largely about hyping the stallion justify - who from what i can see has had one horse rated 120+ from 4 crops.

the lads should keep their mouths shut and let the horse do the talking

"There is no right or wrong"   There can be in your bank balance. Also ratings are a very good guide to how good individual horse are. Don't agree with DD. 3rd was over three lengths behind 4th another nearly four. Good post from Hayden.