Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
"He's the best I've ever trained, we always thought that when he was a two-year-old...."
Yes he might be good, he might become a great, but you come out with the same guff after every classic winner that you've trained the last 20 years.
Did no one tell him about Peter and the Wolf ?
If he didn't come out with the same guff after every winner I'd probably believe him but this is about the 30th horse I've heard you say this about. Sorry.
Yes he might be good, he might become a great, but you come out with the same guff after every classic winner that you've trained the last 20 years.
Did no one tell him about Peter and the Wolf ?
If he didn't come out with the same guff after every winner I'd probably believe him but this is about the 30th horse I've heard you say this about. Sorry.
Show More
He started saying it with King of Kings about 25 years ago.
G Hall, haha , was it as long ago as that, Im pleased you can remember !
Such a shame as its just the same boring sales patter in every newspaper article and tv interview that he ever gives.
He must have a lot of interesting things to tell us as he is obviously a master trainer but he always passes the buck to "the lads"..
Interviewing Henry Cecil it isn't.
Such a shame as its just the same boring sales patter in every newspaper article and tv interview that he ever gives.
He must have a lot of interesting things to tell us as he is obviously a master trainer but he always passes the buck to "the lads"..
Interviewing Henry Cecil it isn't.
Peter, a Young Soviet Pioneer,lives at his grandfather's home in a forest clearing. One day, Peter goes out into the clearing, leaving the garden gate open, and a duck that lives in the yard takes the opportunity to swim in a pond nearby. The duck and a bird argue over whether a bird should be able to swim or fly. A local cat stalks them quietly, and the bird—warned by Peter—flies to safety in a tall tree while the duck swims to safety in the middle of the pond.
Peter's grandfather scolds him for staying outside and playing in the meadow alone, because a wolf might attack him. When Peter shows defiance, believing he has nothing to fear from wolves, his grandfather takes him back into the house and locks the gate. Soon afterwards, a ferocious grey wolf comes out of the forest. The cat quickly climbs into the tree with the bird, but the duck, who has jumped out of the pond, is chased, overtaken, and swallowed by the beast.
Seeing all of this from inside, Peter fetches a rope and climbs over the garden wall into the tree. He asks the bird to fly around the beast's head to distract him, while he lowers a noose and catches the wolf by his tail. The beast struggles to get free, but Peter ties the rope to the tree and the noose only gets tighter.
Hunters who have been tracking the wolf come out of the forest with their guns readied, but Peter gets them to instead help him take it to a zoo in a victory parade (the piece was first performed for an audience of Young Pioneers during May Day celebrations) that includes himself, the bird, the hunters leading the wolf, the cat, and lastly his grumbling Grandfather, still disappointed that Peter ignored his warnings, but proud that his grandson caught the beast.
At the end, the narrator states that careful listeners could hear the duck still quacking inside the wolf's belly, because he was swallowed whole.
Peter's grandfather scolds him for staying outside and playing in the meadow alone, because a wolf might attack him. When Peter shows defiance, believing he has nothing to fear from wolves, his grandfather takes him back into the house and locks the gate. Soon afterwards, a ferocious grey wolf comes out of the forest. The cat quickly climbs into the tree with the bird, but the duck, who has jumped out of the pond, is chased, overtaken, and swallowed by the beast.
Seeing all of this from inside, Peter fetches a rope and climbs over the garden wall into the tree. He asks the bird to fly around the beast's head to distract him, while he lowers a noose and catches the wolf by his tail. The beast struggles to get free, but Peter ties the rope to the tree and the noose only gets tighter.
Hunters who have been tracking the wolf come out of the forest with their guns readied, but Peter gets them to instead help him take it to a zoo in a victory parade (the piece was first performed for an audience of Young Pioneers during May Day celebrations) that includes himself, the bird, the hunters leading the wolf, the cat, and lastly his grumbling Grandfather, still disappointed that Peter ignored his warnings, but proud that his grandson caught the beast.
At the end, the narrator states that careful listeners could hear the duck still quacking inside the wolf's belly, because he was swallowed whole.
City Of Troy 'is the best horse I've trained' says Aidan O'Brien
Damn lucky the best horse he's trained came along just when Coolmore need a new super-stallion to replace Galileo.
Damn lucky the best horse he's trained came along just when Coolmore need a new super-stallion to replace Galileo.
Pilsudski and Ramruna, what names you have chosen. You have reminded me of them and what a golden time of horse racing it was.
The horses , trainers and jockeys in my memory seemed a cut above the majority of what we have today.
Ramruna - I totally agree with you, yet at Royal Ascot 2 months ago - he was telling the world that Auguste Rodin was the second coming.
I think he is a bit of a horse Tart ! He has a new favourite every month.. :)
The horses , trainers and jockeys in my memory seemed a cut above the majority of what we have today.
Ramruna - I totally agree with you, yet at Royal Ascot 2 months ago - he was telling the world that Auguste Rodin was the second coming.
I think he is a bit of a horse Tart ! He has a new favourite every month.. :)
Cot , very lucky to have the godolphin horse fatality at chester, economics missing the derby, and imo making certain that white birch doent run against him,
COT is a good horse to win from where he was at Epsom. But, this year's Epsom renewal was a mediocre lot. On the other hand Dancing Brave was terribly unlucky. He was in as bad a position as COT, but the opposition were significantly stronger.
I think you are right elisjohn and impossible, I just had a look through the field and there were only 2 previous group 1 winners in opposition.
Ryan was telling in his interview - he did say there weren't many Gr 1 winners in the race and the others thought they had good horses and gave a shake of his head to imply they weren't.
Funnily enough the RPost have an article about ratings today and say :
" A cracking Juddmonte International Stakes saw City Of Troy take his form to the next level as the Derby winner saw off a record field at York, an improved Racing Post Rating of 129+ rating him alongside Australia and Giant's Causeway.... While it might not have been the performance to quite match his trainer's assertion that he's the best horse I've trained, it is enough to see him take top spot on the season's leaderboard."
So even they say he's talking bollox.
Ryan was telling in his interview - he did say there weren't many Gr 1 winners in the race and the others thought they had good horses and gave a shake of his head to imply they weren't.
Funnily enough the RPost have an article about ratings today and say :
" A cracking Juddmonte International Stakes saw City Of Troy take his form to the next level as the Derby winner saw off a record field at York, an improved Racing Post Rating of 129+ rating him alongside Australia and Giant's Causeway.... While it might not have been the performance to quite match his trainer's assertion that he's the best horse I've trained, it is enough to see him take top spot on the season's leaderboard."
So even they say he's talking bollox.
Asking trainers about the best horse they trained is stupid -and trainers should not even entertain the question. There are so many variables that it is not really feasible to compare the generations .
I remember Henry Cecil being asked this question and to everyone's surprise he nominated Bosra Sham !
Arguing about 'best ever' is fine and can be fun -but no panel of experts will ever agree on even the criteria let alone the verdict.
I remember Henry Cecil being asked this question and to everyone's surprise he nominated Bosra Sham !
Arguing about 'best ever' is fine and can be fun -but no panel of experts will ever agree on even the criteria let alone the verdict.
Montjeu was one hell of a racehorse; Cash sitting on top motionless and cruising into the lead each time was a sight to behold.
Spot on vubiant , you just go around in circles and everyone thinks exactly the same at the conclusion , can be an age thing as well as the nostalgic amongst us will always believe the " good old days " will never be matched with or without the rose coloured spectacles.
It's very easy to be dogmatic about things that are so subjective and can never be proven.
It's very easy to be dogmatic about things that are so subjective and can never be proven.
When a trainer retires and has time to think and assess their career -especially if they have good records and are writing a book or an article -they can make a considered statement about the relative merits of their star performers .
To expect someone to give any kind of worthwhile view in a frantic two minute interview while still caught up in the excitement of a big win is just plumb crazy.
To expect someone to give any kind of worthwhile view in a frantic two minute interview while still caught up in the excitement of a big win is just plumb crazy.
Yes especially when the clown with the microphone is practically begging you for all the positive responses you can muster
In most group 1 races how many group 1 winners take part?
Most group 1 runners are not group 1 winners. Group 2 and group 3 winners moving up, placed group 1 horses.
Also if you get a couple of top top horses they mop up the group ones.
Pre race the race looked like it had depth. The runner up bolted up the previous time at Royal Ascot. All the talk was that it was a much deeper race than what COT had won before.
He won it easily from a very nice horse in second.
Not sure why so many are crabbing it.
Most group 1 runners are not group 1 winners. Group 2 and group 3 winners moving up, placed group 1 horses.
Also if you get a couple of top top horses they mop up the group ones.
Pre race the race looked like it had depth. The runner up bolted up the previous time at Royal Ascot. All the talk was that it was a much deeper race than what COT had won before.
He won it easily from a very nice horse in second.
Not sure why so many are crabbing it.
"Not sure why so many are crabbing it"
I'm NOT. Just not putting City Of Troy in the same league as Frankel, Dancing Brave, Sea The Stars, Montjeu or even Golden Horn or Cracksman.
City Of Troy may be spoken of in the same vein as Frankel by his connections, but Frankel City of Troy is certainly NOT!
I'm NOT. Just not putting City Of Troy in the same league as Frankel, Dancing Brave, Sea The Stars, Montjeu or even Golden Horn or Cracksman.
City Of Troy may be spoken of in the same vein as Frankel by his connections, but Frankel City of Troy is certainly NOT!
Impossible , when did this parallel with Frankel occur from connections as i've never heard them say such a thing , post a clip and i'll be convinced , not saying they haven't but it would be nice to hear for myself.
Earlier in the thread someone quoted them as saying " their Frankel " which is a totally different interpretation as being a parallel of Frankel's ability as you would hopefully agree.
Someone owing a listed horse in the north could easily refer to his horse as " my Frankel " but would be interpreted as the horse meaning as much to him as Frankel would have meant to the prince.
As stated if you have a clip of such a claim then please post and that'll prove to me that people are not confusing the tag " my Frankel " with the claim to be as good as Frankel.
Thanks in anticipation
Earlier in the thread someone quoted them as saying " their Frankel " which is a totally different interpretation as being a parallel of Frankel's ability as you would hopefully agree.
Someone owing a listed horse in the north could easily refer to his horse as " my Frankel " but would be interpreted as the horse meaning as much to him as Frankel would have meant to the prince.
As stated if you have a clip of such a claim then please post and that'll prove to me that people are not confusing the tag " my Frankel " with the claim to be as good as Frankel.
Thanks in anticipation
I didn't think COT's owners were claiming that he would be another Frankel. What I took them to be saying was that ,on the basis of what they had seen early on , he could be the best they ever had i.e. taking Frankel as a benchmark of excellence COT could be THEIR version of Frankel , not another Frankel as such.
In any case such a claim could only be validly made after a horse's full career became known .COT may yet add more lustre to his already splendid record.
In any case such a claim could only be validly made after a horse's full career became known .COT may yet add more lustre to his already splendid record.
Anyone remember Grundy?
Won Champagne Stakes
Won Dewhurst
2nd in Greenham
2nd in English 2000 Guineas
Won Irish 2000 Guineas
Won Epsom Derby
Won Irish Derby
Won King George VI and Queen Elizabeth II
Won Champagne Stakes
Won Dewhurst
2nd in Greenham
2nd in English 2000 Guineas
Won Irish 2000 Guineas
Won Epsom Derby
Won Irish Derby
Won King George VI and Queen Elizabeth II
Think the Grundy vs Bustino clash in the King George is still called the race of the century kincsem
https://www.facebook.com/AscotRacecourse/videos/grundy-vs-bustino-1975-king-george/1187363991442751/
https://www.facebook.com/AscotRacecourse/videos/grundy-vs-bustino-1975-king-george/1187363991442751/
when did this parallel with Frankel occur from connections as i've never heard them say such a thing
michael tabor said he is "our frankel"
michael tabor said he is "our frankel"
thanks A_T , that's what was posted earlier in the terms " their Frankel "
So posters claiming connections have compared the horse to the level of Frankel seems to be the wrong end of the stick somewhat as it's never been suggested , unless someone can post to the contrary ?
So posters claiming connections have compared the horse to the level of Frankel seems to be the wrong end of the stick somewhat as it's never been suggested , unless someone can post to the contrary ?
We've been here before with APOB, Australia,Montjeu,King Of Kings,Giants Causeway,High Chapperal,So You Think among others and now City Of Troy....a movable feast of the best we've ever had.
He, (AOB) is diluting his achievements by saying the latest yoke to be marketed is the best ever.
He should stick to one being the best, eg Giants Causeway and his patter should shift to, "Maybe he could be as good as Giants Causeway."
Coolmore and AOB have been massively helped by Godolphin's absolute abysmal performance over the last 10 to 15 years. How in the name of god did Darley buy nearly every Sadlers Wells in the 90's/00's and not one of the Galileo's in the 2010's is beyond me. Sheikh MoMo cannot be that bighead or obtuse.
He should stick to one being the best, eg Giants Causeway and his patter should shift to, "Maybe he could be as good as Giants Causeway."
Coolmore and AOB have been massively helped by Godolphin's absolute abysmal performance over the last 10 to 15 years. How in the name of god did Darley buy nearly every Sadlers Wells in the 90's/00's and not one of the Galileo's in the 2010's is beyond me. Sheikh MoMo cannot be that bighead or obtuse.
cacique, agree on the whole with godolphins pathetic performances over the latter years, but also obrien has been helped by sych a pathetic performances in general by uk trainers, gosden had a few years , but the rest hopeless, im certain hed just be an average trainer if a young stoute, a cecil, hern, harwood, john dunlop,young cumani,barry hills etc were in opposition
Aug 22, 2024 -- 2:08PM, impossible123 wrote:
"Not sure why so many are crabbing it"I'm NOT. Just not putting City Of Troy in the same league as Frankel, Dancing Brave, Sea The Stars, Montjeu or even Golden Horn or Cracksman. City Of Troy may be spoken of in the same vein as Frankel by his connections, but Frankel City of Troy is certainly NOT!
Your argument weakened dramatically when you mentioned Golden Horn and Cracksman.
City Of Troy has run last race in Europe this year with Breeders’ Cup next target
O’Brien to give colt all-weather gallop in Britain
“It looks like City will go straight for the [Breeders’ Cup] Classic,” O’Brien said. “That will open it up for all the other horses.”
In addition to Content, who “could go to one of the Arc trial, an Arc or to America”, O’Brien has a posse of contenders for next month’s St Leger at Doncaster and will, as ever, be strongly represented in the juvenile Group Ones at Newmarket, Ascot and Doncaster in September and October.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/aug/22/city-of-troy-last-race-in-europe-this-year-breeders-cup-target-horse-racing-tips
O’Brien to give colt all-weather gallop in Britain
“It looks like City will go straight for the [Breeders’ Cup] Classic,” O’Brien said. “That will open it up for all the other horses.”
In addition to Content, who “could go to one of the Arc trial, an Arc or to America”, O’Brien has a posse of contenders for next month’s St Leger at Doncaster and will, as ever, be strongly represented in the juvenile Group Ones at Newmarket, Ascot and Doncaster in September and October.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/aug/22/city-of-troy-last-race-in-europe-this-year-breeders-cup-target-horse-racing-tips
Agree , mentioning Golden Horn and Cracksman seems scraping the barrel somewhat , that said i'm contradicting myself in attempting to compare one decade with another as stated earlier , it's just an impossible debate.
Have a good day at York all
Have a good day at York all
i think aidan lives in the moment and this is how he maintains his enthusiasm for the game - by being constantly excited by his latest charges rather than dwelling on the past
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539