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screaming from beneaththewaves 14 Aug 24 20:51
The closure of the Betfair Points scheme in 2019 was a turning point (for any youngsters reading this, you gained points for turnover, win or lose, and those points reduced your commission rate in stages from 5% down to 2%). When Betfair put everyone on 2% and ended the points scheme, it appeared to be an obviously Good Thing. But I remember warning at the time that liquidity would plummet without that incentive to have a bet. Arbing, in particular, would suffer. For years I arbed in large sums, not because it won me any great amount (the margins are very small), but in order to generate huge Betfair Points totals. Once that incentive disappeared, so did the incentive to arb, and I stopped doing it entirely once my commission rate was held at 2% regardless. A new Betfair Points scheme, whereby you could get your commission rate down from 2% to, say, 0.5%, would be well worth trying imo. I was wondering if anyone would mention 2% comm so kudos for this. Naturally, no mention of it in the RP article. In the history of economies has there ever been another company that permanently reduced the price of its product by more than half? It would be pretty hard to find something that was even the same price as it was 5 years ago let alone a lot cheaper. Even more bizarre is the fact that they didn't seem to want to tell the world. Anyway, in betting terms it's a huge difference - there must be recreational long term losing punters on here who are suddenly finding they are breaking even or even winning in the last 5 years. On horse racing, I'd be one of them. I like a punt on big races, it's a nice distraction from what I'm mostly playing (other sports on here). I don't even have to be that choosy any more. I take the point about reducing the points incentive and maybe that is the common thinking. But for myself, I've been playing as much as possible while I still can because the pessimist in me thinks that something will change whether that is the comm rate going back up or ACs or other gambling law restrictions or BF going belly up or .... |
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BF's biggest embarrassment was the stopping of PC payers betting pre event..as cringeworthy a situation ewe cud ever come across.
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Paragraph 2 of this article.
When a colleague joined the racing post,he asked,how can I learn about gambling,was told to open a Betfair account and play around. Pmsl. Job vacancy . Racing post senior tipster. A complete lack of racing knowledge is not an hindrance to fill this vacancy,has you can learn on the job on Betfair. He didn’t think this through before submitting it |
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Sportsbook was the beginning of the end.
When the end comes I will give up betting. |
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I was one of the 36 that had a bet on the first oaks as I had a earlier account with flutter who betfair bought out, it will remain small and dwindle as more old uns disappear and are not replaced, racing is dying as the low grade crap including the all weather we have everyday finishes it off quicker than anything else
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In the early 2000's you could fill your bets by pub closing time, make a book, whatever, even on gash next racing days.
Far too much - really mediocre, small field racing. A sport that has hardly made the headlines for positive reasons since bf started. Which 80s/90s band we been to see this summer (oncourse)? How many under 25s, who are not employed in the game, could give you a conversation about the Arc? Loads lads (and lasses) will be in the bars having fortunes on the EPL games and having a right crack with mates this weekend tho. 2% used be hard to get and tested your turnover. Anyone still have an account manager? Now it's PC if you hit a couple of bets on a new account. Not HR, but the poker forum, used bump into plenty of them around London clubs and casinos in the day. Didn't even think it was still there until just checked. Anyone remember when greyhound racing was popular? |
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it lost its magic touch when it started the extra charges over commision
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Apologies for not reading through the whole thread first, but here's my two penn'orth...
In the early 2000's, I could comfortably beat any bookmakers odds in the morning. There were a lot of non-clued up players on the exchange and it was easy to ask for prices and get matched hours before an event, and knowing my stuff some brilliant odds were available. Nowadays in the morning Bet365 nearly always beat morning Betfair prices as there is no liquidity, and because I sometimes take too short an exchange price the margin is not there. The 2% commission does help. Again in the early days, my speciality was backing top teams when they went one nil and two nil down early in games. I can remember many wins on Barcelona or Man Utd at 20/1 or thereabouts. I backed Arsenal at 40/1 when they were two nil down at Bolton and came back and won 2:3. MY biggest priced winners were 400/1 on Tottenham to draw at Arsenal, 4:2 down with minutes to play, (I also backed them to win at 999/1). Barcelona similar price in a game they eventually won 5:3 if memory serves me right. Those prices are never seen nowadays. Nowadays the only serious betting I do is on Football competitions (not matches) and very occasionally horse racing if a price stands out. This is partly to do with the state of the exchange which was ruined by bots and of course the lack of competitive horse racing and the randomness of individual football matches. My betting is far curtailed compared to the 80's-2010's the value is just not there to give it a go. |
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Bots wouldn't make any difference if there is enough punters money on the exchange - the bots would just flow in the stream of money already there and move around, in response to punters money - you only really notice the bots in very thin markets.
In relation to the RP writing an article like this - they've always hated the exchanges anyway, because they try to support bookies. The exchange here still has enough to use for most main markets, so until that changes (it might of course) then I would ignore the doom and gloom writers at the RP concerning exchanges. |
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with big layers acting as bookmakers and bookmakers using the exchange surely its no more peer to peer punting as its early vision that betting in the local high st,
fast pics,faster pics,drones etc etc, eventually you run out of mugs to take your money off and the mugs go further up the food chain eating up punters who once considered themselves to be king of the jungle,everyone works out someone always no,s more than them has an edge on them ,someone savy using AI or similar will eventually wipe out the drone players and the drone players become the mug money of the day |
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that was massive irishone. If you win with 3 65 on a Saturday do they take a large chunk of your winnings the following Wednesday ?
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fast pics,faster pics,drones etc etc
most of the issues like this are about inrunning - I personally don't touch it, so it doesn't matter to me, and I'd be happy enough if we went back to racing without the inplay markets - just who does it serve these days, other than for issues as you list above. |
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i still love betfair , but dont post on the forums any more cos im fragile cant take all the negative critisim
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Shove off then and don't come back
Only joking. |
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In running should be a major plus as it adds a different interesting dimension but most now realise they are playing against a marked deck. Netherless it is still my main interest because I can't be bothered (it's too difficult for me anyway) and I would probably stop if in-running went.
I think Betfair and others underestimate how bots destroy the enjoyment, it is no longer peer to peer. |
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why do you still play it brian, if it's getting **** against you? At least pre race is a more level playing field mostly.
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lol forgot 'rigg@d' was a banned word on this forum
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BF - Anyone running bots will have account closed immediately.
BF write their own, run them and sell them. BF - We welcome bot users at Betfair. 2004? |
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I don't understand the 'bot' obsession with many - I just ignore the bots or take advantage when they are poor - which they are.
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That is pre race though, I realise it is different inplay
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stu15 Aug 24 13:55Joined: 12 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 21,615 | Blogger: stu's blog
why do you still play it brian, if it's getting **** against you? At least pre race is a more level playing field mostly. Because I still win by being patiently selective and it's just for an interest thesedays and happy for relatively small profit. |
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even using a drone you feel way behind..tecknology has prevailed.
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Would you be happy if inplay was binned off these days rico?
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I'm amazed that some think bots haven't made a huge difference in the Betfair markets. Bots hoover up variations in the odds compared to traditional bookmakers faster than humans can exploit standout odd with research/knowledge. Bots basically scalp the markets very fast equalising/spoiling the markets.
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In 2010 I had a betting depth or volume (cant remember what it was called) of €1.2 million -that was calculated by adding the total won or lost per race.I haven't come close to 1% of that figure over the last 5 years.I honestly believe there is no soft money in horse racing these days.
Horse racing in general is a sport in decline and betfair which was once like Willie Wonka's chocolate factory to me is now like Wetherspoons. |
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stu 15 Aug 24 14:20
Would you be happy if inplay was binned off these days rico? no as noone forced to play as its caveat emptor.. but it far from BetFAIR any more. |
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But if you can't win on it, what's the point?
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of course ewe can win..can win decent amounts if ewe play before 3f out..after that they're in total control..im toitering at the minute..its finding something to fill the time thats the problem..how many on here spend all day and night watching/gambling?
answer is most. |
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i/r is the best chance you have to win, despite all the drones and tpd and track players and whatever else i havent spotted yet. its the only time the prices are way out
but you have to be selective and patient-im neither unfortunately only the other day i got a surprise emale from a i/r player from the outset who has not worked since betfair-he was at the r post. he was wondering how things were going and we exchanged news about the others we knew who were full time i/r players for 20 years all are struggling at best and some have stopped. if nobody was in front i/r would be possible for a significant minority. we just want everyone to have the same pics, which we did with analogue. the advent of hd has been a disaster. nobody would have gone to the track as analogue was perfectly adequate and you couldnt justify the expense. the advantage was too small. everyone was all over ch4 racing |
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Rico-Dangleflaps 15 Aug 24 14:58
of course ewe can win..can win decent amounts if ewe play before 3f out..after that they're in total control..im toitering at the minute..its finding something to fill the time thats the problem..how many on here spend all day and night watching/gambling? answer is most In yer dreams ffs |
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Rico-Dangleflaps15 Aug 24 14:58
of course ewe can win..can win decent amounts if ewe play before 3f out..after that they're in total control..im toitering at the minute..its finding something to fill the time thats the problem..how many on here spend all day and night watching/gambling? answer is most. Ok, fair enough, as you and Brian say it's variable then, the areas inplay can still be profitable. I am not, and never will be, an inplay trader, so have no other knowledge of it than others' views. I've just heard often enough about how hard it is now. |
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bookies should never have been allowed to run the exchanges. not only can they not be trusted, they will never promote the exchange. first race at dundalk today, £10 on the winner in a paddy shop you win £120. £10 on the exchange you win £233.40, less 2%.
where are the big shiny adverts telling everyone how much more they'd win on the exchange ?? never going to happen. |
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last race i clicked to lay £5 @1000 4 diff horses all had money in all 3 boxes..all vanished instantly and £22 there to bet at 1000..this is what you're up against.
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Arthur Pitt, head of the Betfair Exchange, points to the development of the platform through features such as Betfair Beacons, the fire and ice emojis that appear next to market movers
This is the one of the most mind boggling parts from the article - Even BF see that horse racing is going down the plughole fast on the exchange and this is what the Head of the Exchange points out as some sort of remedy. God knows how much of a salary he's on and he's crowing about the icey and fire icons that I have to turn off every day as soon as i log in!! |
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One explanation is that affordability checks have forced many of the bigger players to switch to black market providers or quit altogether, while a drop in activity on racing from recreational customers has meant there are far fewer minnows left for the remaining sharks to feed on.
WALOFS |
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I'm guessing at the extremes of prices inplay (usually later in race) then speed becomes so much more crucial, hence why the machines can take over acting in microseconds...
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i sustained a loss last week..i cant desposit anymore..another and im history.
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is that what everyone is up against, or has your account been flagged by the bot due to previous success and targeted ?
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It's why I prefer the calmer waters of pre race - yes, sometimes you get stitched up there too, but at least you have plenty time to consider all the options and every decision.
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obv no idea hulk..im laying 3-4 horses in a race and winning £3-£5..all my matches bar the 1000 are under 10p..most 1p 2p 3p's..and..all the money matched on that horse is mine..theyve just stripped everything last 2f and arnt allowing £ to be nicked..if your a backer..horses are sub 1.1 in 4th 5th 6th..the gps is way ahead.
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