First winner 84/1 on here, ISP 33/1, TOTE 33/1. ..... Barry Hearn was right ...

64/1 I think it was

BFSP that is.

... OK my mistake, thought i read 85, still nearly double.

Boring I know, but they are not the same bets are they.

33/1 is win or e/w, 64/1 is win only
given all the NRs left it a dead 8 non-hcap, e/w market on here 40-50 range for the winner
so double carpet is a fair return

Tote Win 119% book (with SP match guarantee)
SP around 110% book
BFSP around 101% book

At these book%s: SP will almost always be beaten by BFSP. Tote Win will almost always be beaten by SP, but will be brought up to match SP due to the match guarantee.

The Tote must be the worst run business of the lot of them and they're the ones racing is depending on.

33/1 is win or e/w, 64/1 is win only
given all the NRs left it a dead 8 non-hcap, e/w market on here 40-50 range for the winner
so double carpet is a fair return

how is it a 'fair return' if i walk into a bookie and purely want to bet on it to win the race ?

why am i getting returned at the e/w win price ??  i'm not interested in e/w

Hulk, I think it is mainly because you do not understand the explanations put forward earlier on the thread.

Why would you "walk into a bookie and purely want to bet on it to win the race?" and bet at an understandably constricted EW price when you can get hugely better win only odds on the machine.

you don't understand a lot of people don't know what the "machine" is.  a lot of people don't know what Betfair is. 

and when they walk into the bookie for a win-only bet, they get shafted.

I understand that those with knowledge have an advantage over those that do not. Twas ever thus in betting as in life.

99% of people who walk into a bookie are there for a fix, they wouldn't know if 10-1 or 100-1 was the right price of a horse, and if it's on the board as favourite then it's a case of ....'I fancy that one...' They want their 'fix' to last so they back the short ones.

my understanding was the bookies were all over 'player protection'.  maybe that's just so they have an excuse to gather personal information in order to profile customers, the protection doesn't seem to extend to informing the clueless they're punting a 60/1 win-only shot at 28's win-only.

Hulk - I am a shopkeeper, should I suggest a customer goes down the road or online where they might be able to purchase their item at a lower price??

do you run constant promotions declaring how much you look after your customers ??

your competitors may wish to point out they offer better value. 

who's the competition to the bookies ?  the exchanges.  who owns them ??  the bookies. 

when was the last time you saw any adverts pointing out you'd get better win-only value on e/w races on the exchanges ??  you haven't, and you never will.

This has been a thing since forever - the much tighter market over-round on here is much more due to better prices on outsiders than on favourites.

This has been a thing since forever - the much tighter market over-round on here is much more due to better prices on outsiders than on favourites.

Hulk- If you were selling your house for half million and somebody offered 600K, would you tell them it was only worth half million.

A spirited defence of bookmaker betting on this thread.
My question to that profession is why not have win and place separate markets so as punters can split their bets rather than being restricted to 50/50 stakes?  The traditional bookmaker EW bet is past it's sell by date and should be binned. As has been said earlier many punters wouldn't even be aware of the exchange options to such as the old EW bet.

Hulk- If you were selling your house for half million and somebody offered 600K, would you tell them it was only worth half million.

i wouldn't be championing myself as some kind of champion of consumer protection whilst secretly shafting as many as i could with contrived sh^t odds based on, as sparrow says, a traditional bookmaker EW bet which is well past it's sell by date

we care about you, we're looking after you, we care about you, we're looking after you, we care about you, we're looking after you .... can i bet a win-only 60/1 shot at 28's please ?  course ya can.  ya fkng mug.

Dog eat dog world, always has been, always will be.