Sad thing is Hayden, that you are not alone mate. Majority of gamblers feel the same.

Hayden is correct sadly. I well remember previous comments re school sweeps/Nation stopping/unofficial holiday/etc.
As I said on Friday my first memory was 1952 Tulyar. The small village I was brought up in just after the war had a blacksmith who was also a farrier mainly for farm animals. Every year prior to the Derby the blacksmith would run a sweep for I think 5 shillings a shot. Almost every family would be involved, and word would go out to neighbouring towns and villages and even Counties, so that the prizes were a lot of money at the time. Entries were huge and every entry was not certain of a runner. The Blacksmith would be assisted by his apprentices and the night before the race the draw was made.
The Blacksmith was a racing fanatic and followed Garry Owen in the Daily Record . He had a strong accent and when a blank was drawn against your name he would say "TommywestofLanark a bloooonk". If you drew a runner it was very exciting if you got the fav.even more so. He drew St Paddy himself much to protests of fix fix .In Psidiums year 61 Harry Wragg had a shorter priced runner as well. When Psidium's name came out he just called it Raaaags Itheryin.
He also used to say The Aaaagaa Khaaaan quite a lot.
My first school sweep was around 58/59 and I remember drawing a horse called New Brig trained by George Boyd at Dunbar.I was able to put sixpence on it through one of the local tearaways who was into everything that he shouldn't have been.
Oddly enough I ran into that school tearaway about 30years later through golf, he turned out to be a really good player (scratch) and was a completely changed person.
By the way Mac my golf on Saturday morning was awful
Good luck to all for Saturday.I'll be on City Of Troy but will wait till Saturday

Good post tommy.

Shame about the golf. I used to be about 10 handicap when I played. Miss it. Especially the banter and 19th hole, lol. Don`t drink now or play golf.

Here is the 1961 Derby won by Psidium at 66/1. Owned by Mr & Mrs Pletsch who won again with Henbit 19 years later in 1980. Great viewing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9oRaCE24nU

Never Say Die and Lester return to the winners enclosure after their Derby success:

Good luck storm alert. I don`t have a strong opinion and have joined you with a few shillings e/w on Ambiente Friendly.

Reference Point in the winners enclosure

Lord Halifax`s Shirley Heights and Greville Starkey return to the winners enclosure

... with the late, great Brian Taylor of course.

Nice picture of Reference Point in the winners enclosure. I attended a property meeting in London a few weeks before the 1987 Derby and the owner Louis Freedman, who is standing on the left, also attended the meeting. During a break for lunch I asked him about Reference Point and he was really genial and quite happy to talk about its chance in the Derby. He clearly loved horse racing and talking about it, but I don't remember any other horses he might have owned.

Mr Freedman sadly passed away in 1998. Here is Tim Richards wonderful obituary he wrote for The Independent. I`m sure he won`t mind us posting it here.

LOUIS FREEDMAN was a self-made property millionaire and the owner- breeder of the 1987 Derby winner Reference Point. A natural administrator who served on the Race Relations Board and numerous health authorities, he was also one of the country's most successful bloodstock breeders and was the last British owner to win the Derby.

It was his passion for the thoroughbred and the great success with which he ran his Cliveden Stud at Taplow in Berkshire that brought him into the public eye, though he was always at pains to stress that he was not keen on the publicity which surrounds the highly successful racehorse owner.

For a man who rose to somewhere near the top in almost everything he tried to do there was no outward hint of a ruthless streak. The genial Freedman retained a refreshing outlook on life and was particularly fond of humorous understatement. He was happy to chat about his horses and their chances - which inevitably he played down - and he clearly enjoyed his involvement in what started as a relaxation and turned into a success-driven breeding business. He rose through racing's corridors of power to become President of the Racehorse Owners' Association from 1972 to 1974 and Deputy Senior Steward of the Jockey Club between 1981 and 1983.

Educated at University College School in London, Freedman served in the Royal Artillery TA during the Second World War. In 1946 he set up Ravensfield Properties, which was taken over by Land Securities plc in 1955. He was chairman of Land Securities between 1958 and 1977. It was during this period that he developed a hankering to own racehorses, which was his idea of a relaxing pastime to take him away from the stresses of business.

Freedman's boundless energy ensured that he pursued an active role in public life. This took him on to the Race Relations Board between 1968 and 1977, and he was appointed CBE in 1978 for his services to race relations. Once asked what a racehorse-owning property dealer was doing on the Race Relations Board, he replied: "Had it occurred to you that I might be interested in the dignity of mankind?"

In addition he was President of the National Association of Property Owners; Special Trustee of St Bartholomew's Hospital in 1974; Vice-Chairman of the North East Thames Regional Health Authority, 1975-79; Chairman of the Camden and Islington Area Health Authority, 1979-82; and Chairman of City & Hackney Health Authority, 1982-84.

Freedman's first taste of success at the top level in racing was with a colt called I Say, who finished third behind the mighty Sea Bird II in the 1965 Derby and went on to win the following year's Coronation Cup.

On the advice of his great friend Peter Willett, who is acknowledged as one of the great authorities on bloodstock breeding, Freedman bought the fillies Lucyrowe and Seventh Bride. Lucyrowe carried all before her to win a string of top fillies' races including the Coronation Stakes, Sun Chariot Stakes and the Nassau Stakes, in which she beat Seventh Bride in a memorable finish.

In 1966 Freedman bought Cliveden Stud, which had been established back in 1906 by the second Viscount Astor, and started his own breeding operation. Two years later he purchased Beech House Stud in Newmarket from Lady Sassoon.

Attica Meli, whom he had acquired from the Sassoon bloodstock, won the Yorkshire Oaks, Park Hill Stakes and the Princess Royal Stakes in 1972. Freedman's first Classic success came with his home-bred filly Polygamy who won the 1974 Oaks and was a wonderful example of her owner's great flair for naming his horses, being by Reform out of Seventh Bride.

During that same year another filly, Mil's Bomb, carried the yellow and black silks with great success, winning the Lancashire Oaks, Nassau Stakes and Park Hill Stakes. With his horses well to the fore Freedman decided to sell Beech House and concentrate his breeding interests at Cliveden.

By this time Henry Cecil had taken over the training of the Freedman horses from Peter Walwyn and in 1986 he produced Reference Point to run away with the William Hill Futurity, one of the top races confined to two-year-olds.

Freedman, something of a traditionalist, had harboured dreams of winning the Triple Crown - the 2,000 Guineas, Derby and St Leger. In Reference Point he was convinced that if ever there was a modern-day Triple Crown winner he was it. Then in the spring of 1987 Reference Point contracted a serious sinus infection which precluded him from taking part in the Guineas.

But the colt was back in time to win York's Dante Stakes before leading all the way for a famous victory in the Derby under a masterful ride from the American jockey Steve Cauthen. Reference Point went on to further glory in the King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes at Ascot and duly won the St Leger.

The following year Freedman transferred the ownership of all his bloodstock to Cliveden Stud Company when his younger son Philip, a merchant banker and chairman of the Thoroughbred Breeders' Association, took over the reins of the operation. At the time he said that his breeding and bloodstock would benefit from being run by a younger man, though it transpired later that Freedman had become disillusioned after an article in The People newspaper earlier in 1988 had made allegations that he had been party to an illegal deal with Lester Piggott about the jockey's retainer.

Louis Freedman was so upset by the whole affair that he reduced his public involvement in racing. At the subsequent libel case with The People an out-of-court settlement was agreed, with Freedman receiving substantial damages and costs which were believed to be in the region of pounds 300,000.

Louis Freedman, property dealer and racehorse owner and breeder: born 5 February 1917; CBE 1978; married 1944 Cara Abrahamson (one son, one daughter; marriage dissolved), 1960 Valerie Clarke (one son); died Cliveden, Berkshire 21 December 1998.

Yes that's the link Mac   

Attica Meli was a big favourite of mine. Trained by Noel Murless and ridden by Geoff Lewis.

Perhaps my memory is playing tricks with me but I seem to recall the Freedman colours carried by Attica Meli and others at the time as being Yellow, with a Black disc on body. Perhaps, blackbarn or ged or geoff or onlooker can clarify. It`s possible, these colours were registered in his wife`s name but I may be completely wrong.

Last bet i had at a racing festival Mac was a bad e/way double against Black Caviar & Frankel in 2012 , i'm strictly a strategical gambler and festivals full of horses trying their best isn't for me.

I'm a double digit & low grade racing kinda guy   

Just shows how easily you can forget horses when you don't hear of them for such a long time , remember Lucyrowe pretty well 

Thanks for the info, an interesting read. I've heard of Cliveden Stud and it looks like he scaled back soon after Reference Point career.

Themightymac- The Windsor Lad photo.Is that the Maharaja leading the horse and is that the tipster prince with the feathers following on? No disrespect intended to either.
I was on City of Troy ( not for a large amount) as I said I would in my May 29th post.Only as it is O'Brien that trains it and the opposition didn't look to be great.I thought the horse was impressive but again what's it beaten?
The golf continues to deteriorate but hey ho I now only play for the good company. Like you I was much better when I was younger, the best I got to was 5.1 h/cap, I never set foot on a golf course till I was 37 years old and now I am high seventies.I was still playing off 7 ten years ago but after cancer treatment and heart surgery between 2013 and 2015 My best days are well behind me now. I hope you still play and can enjoy it.

Thanks Hayden.I probably made it sound worse than it was.There are a lot of people far worse off than I am.
Good luck to you too.