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16 Apr 24
13:25
Joined:
Date Joined:
10 Jan 02
Are the individual reasons for suicides a matter of public record? There seem to be 5-6k suicides a year in the UK. The "latest" (give me fooking strength) research which is continually used by govt and media about "evil gambling" is that it's over 400 a year. It's complete BS and I'd be embarrassed if I produced the methodology as a 15 year old for a GCSE project. It would be good if this research could be rubbished for what it is.
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I've found method of suicide for Scottish suicides, but nowt about reasons for suicide.
Interesting data. In 1974 53% were by poison, 19% drowning and 12% by hanging. In 2022 it was 20% by poison 53% by hanging and only 4.5% by drowning
Interesting data. In 1974 53% were by poison, 19% drowning and 12% by hanging. In 2022 it was 20% by poison 53% by hanging and only 4.5% by drowning
I remember reading farmers sometimes drank sheep dip
Apparently a very nasty way to go as it dissolves your insides
Apparently a very nasty way to go as it dissolves your insides
I know of one suicide that was an open and shut case that the coroner decided to give an open verdict. I have no idea about anyone's reasons for doing it though.
Life stinks sometimes and i can well understand peoples reason for doing it.
There’s a massive hospital round here, must be 20 storeys high
Over the years I’ve had several elderly relatives in there near the top on some ward or other
And looking out always thought this would be how I went…walking over to the window, throwing a chair through it and jumping
Amazed they don’t have more people doing it tbh.
Over the years I’ve had several elderly relatives in there near the top on some ward or other
And looking out always thought this would be how I went…walking over to the window, throwing a chair through it and jumping
Amazed they don’t have more people doing it tbh.
500+ Betfarians found at the foot of Beachey Head every year, just doesn't make the National Press
55% of suicides a year by gun shot in USA. Less than 1% in Scotland. But the suicide rate is almost identical (slightly higher in the US).
Still the narrative for Affordability Checks are the fake statistics on suicides. But if you can't get the coroner's opinion, or if that opinion is not required or requested, you can't challenge the narrative.
But if it is required or noted in any part of the country, then you can.
Geoff Banks tweets about this fairly regularly, and according to him:
Geoff Banks
@geoffbanksbet
It's in the office of national statistics figures
1.1 suicides attributed to gambling (in any way mentioned in coroners report) since 2001
We are a little short of the gambling with lives claim of "2 suicides a day"
Questions must be asked
Geoff Banks
@geoffbanksbet
It's in the office of national statistics figures
1.1 suicides attributed to gambling (in any way mentioned in coroners report) since 2001
We are a little short of the gambling with lives claim of "2 suicides a day"
Questions must be asked
I don't claim to know how many there might be in any given year, but if you were betting in multiples of 10, I'd make 0-10 fave.
Correlation does not imply causation,comparing suicide by method in diff countries pointless too.
One group I do see as strange for very high suicide is Vets,what's that all about?
One group I do see as strange for very high suicide is Vets,what's that all about?
Putting animals to sleep , some of which could probably be treated if the finances were there, must weigh heavily on their shoulders.
Vets are well known for getting loads of abuse from disgruntled pet owners
One for the fact they put their pet to sleep, and th other for charging extortionate rates that get viewed as blatant opportunism.
One for the fact they put their pet to sleep, and th other for charging extortionate rates that get viewed as blatant opportunism.
Practice owners charge the high prices, the vets are just doing their job.
You spot on swifty.
The big groups have entered the market over the last ten years, buying out small independent surgeries then franchising them out.
It has raised prices no end. More money to the money men.
The big groups have entered the market over the last ten years, buying out small independent surgeries then franchising them out.
It has raised prices no end. More money to the money men.
All these big fancy Vets Surgerys popping up everywhere charging an arm and a leg.
Oddly I did once look at the different country rates to see the highest and lowest, and was particularly interested in lowest which are many of the west Indies locations as very low for suicide.
Makes some sense - great weather, beaches, love to sit relax enjoying their rum, what's not to like.
Makes some sense - great weather, beaches, love to sit relax enjoying their rum, what's not to like.
Anyone noticed a complete lack of regular Aspirin in supermarkets?
Just seem to have gone, can't get them at all, can get the wishy washy 75mg but like the full strength 325mg, had a load from covid times but nearly out.
Just seem to have gone, can't get them at all, can get the wishy washy 75mg but like the full strength 325mg, had a load from covid times but nearly out.
£70 for an adult Labradoodle haircut. The pet needs 3 a year = £210.
"comparing suicide by method in diff countries pointless too."
Partly the reason for the US gun suicide statistics. Just because 55% of US suicides are gun related doesn't mean there will be a 55% fall in US suicides if they banned guns. Or is it even evidence of any correlation at all, although personally I suspect there is a small correlation.
The only evidence of gambling suicides would be coroner's verdicts, and I suspect there are barely any attributable to gambling. And even then, that doesn't tell you what might happen if gambling was banned. There could be even more suicides.
Partly the reason for the US gun suicide statistics. Just because 55% of US suicides are gun related doesn't mean there will be a 55% fall in US suicides if they banned guns. Or is it even evidence of any correlation at all, although personally I suspect there is a small correlation.
The only evidence of gambling suicides would be coroner's verdicts, and I suspect there are barely any attributable to gambling. And even then, that doesn't tell you what might happen if gambling was banned. There could be even more suicides.
CLYDEBANK29 Joined: 10 Jan 02
Replies: 1316016 Apr 24 14:29
55% of suicides a year by gun shot in USA. Less than 1% in Scotland. But the suicide rate is almost identical (slightly higher in the US).
Replies: 1316016 Apr 24 14:29
55% of suicides a year by gun shot in USA. Less than 1% in Scotland. But the suicide rate is almost identical (slightly higher in the US).
My mate Alan was an Ice-Cream man and they found him dead in his van. He was covered in chocolate flakes and sprinkles.
The police think that he topped himself.
The police think that he topped himself.
With vets I presume it's because they know how to euthanize an animal efficiently and painlessly,they have access to the necessary chemicals, and thus they can do it to themselves too. They know the importance of applying a powerful sedative first, so that the body doesn't fight the lethal injection, with all the grisly consequences of that.
What stops most suicides is the sheer difficulty of performing the deed painlessly and successfully. If you don't have access to firearms, it's rather difficult to guarantee that you won't simply be inflicting agonizing pain on yourself and be left a cripple.
Much simpler to have a bet on the next, and see whether that cheers you up. And if it's a loser, hey ho, there's always another chance tomorrow.
What stops most suicides is the sheer difficulty of performing the deed painlessly and successfully. If you don't have access to firearms, it's rather difficult to guarantee that you won't simply be inflicting agonizing pain on yourself and be left a cripple.
Much simpler to have a bet on the next, and see whether that cheers you up. And if it's a loser, hey ho, there's always another chance tomorrow.
That's an interesting point about Vets having know how , wonder if that's correct, don't forget in Scotland don't think the cause of the suicide is ever listed, it's no suspicious circumstances and case closed as far as public is concerned, always thought how can a death not be suspicious but that's how it is.
Was it full monty where dude is trying to top himself with the old vaccum pipe from. Exhast into car, engine has cut out, guy comes to help and asks him what team he supports, throws him back in car and slams door shut and shouts it's your points, your points need cleaned after he says his team lol.
Castaway with hanks trying to top himself is also very funny.
Was it full monty where dude is trying to top himself with the old vaccum pipe from. Exhast into car, engine has cut out, guy comes to help and asks him what team he supports, throws him back in car and slams door shut and shouts it's your points, your points need cleaned after he says his team lol.
Castaway with hanks trying to top himself is also very funny.
That place in Switzerland where people go to die, Dignitas
It's apparently very expensive and they don't do finance
Also, the most requested final breakfast is a bowl of Cheerios
It's apparently very expensive and they don't do finance
Also, the most requested final breakfast is a bowl of Cheerios
Taxi to the nearest high bridge much cheaper, could even fare dodge at a push.Railway line near me was a regular untill they fenced, used to see the police walking along embankmentwith carrier bags, was a high speed section.
Knew a train driver who once drunk got really depressed and called himself a serial killer, they get time off. Usual is the jesus pose, standing with arms outstretched facing the locomotive. Was not unusual for head to leave scene like a football being kicked out the park.
Knew a train driver who once drunk got really depressed and called himself a serial killer, they get time off. Usual is the jesus pose, standing with arms outstretched facing the locomotive. Was not unusual for head to leave scene like a football being kicked out the park.
There's a Harry Hill sketch where his nan begs him to take her to Dignitas. She's really old and her last request is to go to Dignitas. So Harry books her in, accompanies her on the flight, they book into the hotel, it's a lovely hotel and they're both pleased to be there until a bloke comes into their room with a pillow to smother Harry's nan, and she starts complaining.
Turns out she wanted to go to Disneyland.
Turns out she wanted to go to Disneyland.
Gambling Can lead to ,Theft Even Murder , Losing your Liberty , Losing a House , Your Partner , And after most of them the Will to live
Was a Bloke on the Forum Years back said he was Going to Top Himself
Was a Bloke on the Forum Years back said he was Going to Top Himself
I don't remember it too well TBH Who ever it was sounded serious about it
https://thecritic.co.uk/the-gambling-suicides-myth/
By
Christopher Snowdon
There is one gambling-related suicide in the UK every day. There are up to 496 gambling-related suicides a year. Ten per cent of all the suicides in England are caused by gambling.
These statistics, and other iterations of them, have become mantras for the anti-gambling lobby since January 2023 when the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities (OHID) published a report claiming that there are “between 117 and 496 suicides associated with problem gambling” in England. Activists naturally focused on the larger of these two numbers and started putting it on billboards. The monetised value of years of life supposedly lost to suicide make up most of the “up to” £1.77 billion that gambling is said to cost “wider society” each year.
It turns out that these figures are based on nothing. They are a will o’ the wisp. A mirage. They exist only on a laptop in Whitehall. They are worthless.
How can we possibly know how many suicides are linked to problem gambling, let alone how many are solely caused by it? Gambling is only mentioned on one coroner’s report a year, on average, which is presumably an under-estimate. In the absence of better evidence, OHID’s predecessor Public Health England turned to a study from Sweden which looked at 2,099 hospital patients who were diagnosed with pathological gambling between 2005 and 2016. Sixty-seven of them died, including 21 who took their own life. The authors noted that the suicide rate among this cohort of pathological gamblers was fifteen times higher than the suicide rate of the general Swedish population.
Upon this sliver of evidence, everything else rested. In 2021, Public Health England simply estimated how many problem gamblers were in England and then multiplied the number of expected suicides by fifteen. This produced a figure of 409 suicides a year which anti-gambling activists then put on T-shirts.
Public Health England was closed down soon afterwards and replaced by OHID. Last January, OHID used the same methodology but produced two different estimates, one based on how many people are thought to have “gambling disorder” (previously known as pathological gambling) and the other based on how many suffer from the less severe condition of “problem gambling”. The figures were 117 and 496 respectively.
You don’t need to be intimately acquainted with basic statistics to see the problem here. People who are being given medical or psychiatric treatment in hospitals are inherently different to people who are not. If you are admitted to hospital, there is already something wrong with you. If you are admitted to hospital and asked to take a survey to diagnose gambling disorder (or any other psychological problem) then you are very likely to be at the higher end of the risk spectrum.
Sure enough, there was a lot wrong with the 2,099 people in the Swedish study. Between 2005 and 2016, 65 per cent of them suffered from “injury, poisoning, and other consequences of external causes”. 60 per cent had an anxiety disorder. 51 per cent suffered from depression. 41 per cent had a substance-use disorder. 29 per cent had an alcohol-use disorder. 19 per cent had a personality disorder. 19 per cent intentionally self-harmed. 12 per cent were bipolar. 9 per cent had schizophrenia. In the context of all this human misery, a suicide rate of one per cent does not seem too surprising and it is absurd to assume that all the suicides were the result of problem gambling. For many of these unfortunate people, gambling may have been the least of their worries.
The authors of the study freely admitted that these hospital patients were unlikely to be representative of the average problem gambler:
It is therefore likely that results may be skewed toward a population of individuals with more severe forms of GD [gambling disorder]. It is likely that this once again implies that this study sample might contain patients with higher mental health comorbidity, as well as individuals with more severe forms of GD, since these individuals are more likely to receive specialized psychiatry care.
Public Health England and OHID ignored all this and extrapolated the suicide rate among pathological gamblers with multiple co-morbidities in Swedish hospitals across the estimated number of problem gamblers in the general population in England. No attempt was made to adjust for the many other risk factors for suicide that these people obviously had.
Last year, however, one of the two authors of the Swedish study did exactly that. Using the same dataset in a new study for her PhD thesis, Anna Karlsson found that “gambling disorder did not appear to be a significant risk factor for the increase in suicide and general mortality when controlling for previously known risk factors”. She concluded that her research “could not determine whether GD [gambling disorder] is an independent risk factor for suicide”.
This does not mean that there is no link between gambling disorder and suicide. History and common sense tell us that people who get into severe financial difficulties are more likely to take their own lives and it is obvious that problem gambling is one way to suffer financial distress, albeit the only one that is now treated as a “public health” issue. What it does mean is that gambling disorder, on its own, was not a big enough risk factor for suicide to show up among the people studied by the Swedish authors using standard statistical practice. If you extrapolated the properly adjusted figures from the Swedish study across the English population, the number of gambling-related suicides would be zero.
It is hard to believe that OHID was not aware that it had made an error that a literal schoolboy could have spotted. Public Health England was closed down because it was incompetent and was too easily distracted by lifestyle issues when it should have been focusing on public health. It was more of an in-house lobby group than a serious scientific agency. It seems that closing it down and re-opening it under a new name with the same staff was not enough to make the leopard change its spots.
By
Christopher Snowdon
There is one gambling-related suicide in the UK every day. There are up to 496 gambling-related suicides a year. Ten per cent of all the suicides in England are caused by gambling.
These statistics, and other iterations of them, have become mantras for the anti-gambling lobby since January 2023 when the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities (OHID) published a report claiming that there are “between 117 and 496 suicides associated with problem gambling” in England. Activists naturally focused on the larger of these two numbers and started putting it on billboards. The monetised value of years of life supposedly lost to suicide make up most of the “up to” £1.77 billion that gambling is said to cost “wider society” each year.
It turns out that these figures are based on nothing. They are a will o’ the wisp. A mirage. They exist only on a laptop in Whitehall. They are worthless.
How can we possibly know how many suicides are linked to problem gambling, let alone how many are solely caused by it? Gambling is only mentioned on one coroner’s report a year, on average, which is presumably an under-estimate. In the absence of better evidence, OHID’s predecessor Public Health England turned to a study from Sweden which looked at 2,099 hospital patients who were diagnosed with pathological gambling between 2005 and 2016. Sixty-seven of them died, including 21 who took their own life. The authors noted that the suicide rate among this cohort of pathological gamblers was fifteen times higher than the suicide rate of the general Swedish population.
Upon this sliver of evidence, everything else rested. In 2021, Public Health England simply estimated how many problem gamblers were in England and then multiplied the number of expected suicides by fifteen. This produced a figure of 409 suicides a year which anti-gambling activists then put on T-shirts.
Public Health England was closed down soon afterwards and replaced by OHID. Last January, OHID used the same methodology but produced two different estimates, one based on how many people are thought to have “gambling disorder” (previously known as pathological gambling) and the other based on how many suffer from the less severe condition of “problem gambling”. The figures were 117 and 496 respectively.
You don’t need to be intimately acquainted with basic statistics to see the problem here. People who are being given medical or psychiatric treatment in hospitals are inherently different to people who are not. If you are admitted to hospital, there is already something wrong with you. If you are admitted to hospital and asked to take a survey to diagnose gambling disorder (or any other psychological problem) then you are very likely to be at the higher end of the risk spectrum.
Sure enough, there was a lot wrong with the 2,099 people in the Swedish study. Between 2005 and 2016, 65 per cent of them suffered from “injury, poisoning, and other consequences of external causes”. 60 per cent had an anxiety disorder. 51 per cent suffered from depression. 41 per cent had a substance-use disorder. 29 per cent had an alcohol-use disorder. 19 per cent had a personality disorder. 19 per cent intentionally self-harmed. 12 per cent were bipolar. 9 per cent had schizophrenia. In the context of all this human misery, a suicide rate of one per cent does not seem too surprising and it is absurd to assume that all the suicides were the result of problem gambling. For many of these unfortunate people, gambling may have been the least of their worries.
The authors of the study freely admitted that these hospital patients were unlikely to be representative of the average problem gambler:
It is therefore likely that results may be skewed toward a population of individuals with more severe forms of GD [gambling disorder]. It is likely that this once again implies that this study sample might contain patients with higher mental health comorbidity, as well as individuals with more severe forms of GD, since these individuals are more likely to receive specialized psychiatry care.
Public Health England and OHID ignored all this and extrapolated the suicide rate among pathological gamblers with multiple co-morbidities in Swedish hospitals across the estimated number of problem gamblers in the general population in England. No attempt was made to adjust for the many other risk factors for suicide that these people obviously had.
Last year, however, one of the two authors of the Swedish study did exactly that. Using the same dataset in a new study for her PhD thesis, Anna Karlsson found that “gambling disorder did not appear to be a significant risk factor for the increase in suicide and general mortality when controlling for previously known risk factors”. She concluded that her research “could not determine whether GD [gambling disorder] is an independent risk factor for suicide”.
This does not mean that there is no link between gambling disorder and suicide. History and common sense tell us that people who get into severe financial difficulties are more likely to take their own lives and it is obvious that problem gambling is one way to suffer financial distress, albeit the only one that is now treated as a “public health” issue. What it does mean is that gambling disorder, on its own, was not a big enough risk factor for suicide to show up among the people studied by the Swedish authors using standard statistical practice. If you extrapolated the properly adjusted figures from the Swedish study across the English population, the number of gambling-related suicides would be zero.
It is hard to believe that OHID was not aware that it had made an error that a literal schoolboy could have spotted. Public Health England was closed down because it was incompetent and was too easily distracted by lifestyle issues when it should have been focusing on public health. It was more of an in-house lobby group than a serious scientific agency. It seems that closing it down and re-opening it under a new name with the same staff was not enough to make the leopard change its spots.
It HAS been rubbished. Read on...
https://thecritic.co.uk/the-gambling-suicides-myth/#:~:text=There%20is%20one%20gambling,England%20are%20caused%20by%20gambling.
https://thecritic.co.uk/the-gambling-suicides-myth/#:~:text=There%20is%20one%20gambling,England%20are%20caused%20by%20gambling.
casemoney 16 Apr 24 21:47
Gambling Can lead to ,Theft Even Murder , Losing your Liberty , Losing a House , Your Partner , And after most of them the Will to live
I know very few gamblers tbh. I have though attended the funeral of one of them ( hung himself, early twenties)
and a good friend and fine chap ended up in jail through gambling. The divorce toll on families must be sizeable.
If it hasn't addicted you, it doesn't mean it's not addictive.
Gambling Can lead to ,Theft Even Murder , Losing your Liberty , Losing a House , Your Partner , And after most of them the Will to live
I know very few gamblers tbh. I have though attended the funeral of one of them ( hung himself, early twenties)
and a good friend and fine chap ended up in jail through gambling. The divorce toll on families must be sizeable.
If it hasn't addicted you, it doesn't mean it's not addictive.
Careful people…you can be arrested and charged for quoting statistics now.
I lost 3 good friends who committed suicide because of gambling. 2 jumped in front of a train. Glad that the majority of you haven`t experienced similar like Saddo and I. It`s a serious problem for some.
It is a very serious problem for some, as said above.
However, the answer to that is not to try to ban or ruin gambling for everyone!
That is the logical non-sequitur, that so many anti-gambling people cannot understand...but should be made to.
However, the answer to that is not to try to ban or ruin gambling for everyone!
That is the logical non-sequitur, that so many anti-gambling people cannot understand...but should be made to.
I agree entirely stu with what you said above but many gamblers don`t recognise that gambling is a severe problem for a minority of gamblers. Controlled and sensible gamblers seem to take a superiority attitude over problem gamblers. Gambling addiction is a serious issue, especially when you experience it at close hand with the loss of close family or friends.
I remember the first friend as if it were yesterday because it was the summer of 81 about the same time that poor Joe Blanks was sadly killed after a fall at Brighton. Scary to think that it was over 40 years ago. That was a drugs overdose. His gambling caused severe money problems which caused marriage problems with his wife and eventually led to suicide. I was always "lending" him money to pay bills because he lost his money betting nags. With hindsight and years and years thinking about it, I probably was doing him no good helping him by giving money, but life was different back then and if a friend needed money you gave it.
And remember that back then there was no internet or online casinos etc. Now gambling addicts can bet 24/7.
This fred makes me very very sad thinking about the past.
And remember that back then there was no internet or online casinos etc. Now gambling addicts can bet 24/7.
This fred makes me very very sad thinking about the past.
People find many ways in which to kill themselves - but most are not regulated, either at all, or not much.
Drink, unhealthy diets, smoking etc - they kill and do it more directly to an individual.
Why gambling should be is ridiculous. Give help to those that need it, but blanket restriction is ridiculous.
Drink, unhealthy diets, smoking etc - they kill and do it more directly to an individual.
Why gambling should be is ridiculous. Give help to those that need it, but blanket restriction is ridiculous.
you can add a few more for anyone listening to mizz cumani on itv
Work stress is a massive killer, linked more closely to suicides - anyone going to ban working...think not...
Sad to say people are jumping of Beechy Head on a regular basis but it is something that is kept very quiet.
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