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Argument: That him holding off declaring what horse for what race until the last minute and playing the system is stifling debate, excitement, media build up and generally hype etc...Killed Antepost betting etc... Whilst i think these arguments are valid you can be 100% sure of 2 things. 1. His owners do not give a toss about anything other than winning. So to them this suits them 2. The horse racing authorities are so clueless they probably don't even realise this is a problem, so hence there wont be a discussion or solution. If i was to offer a compromise it would be that you have to declare 2 weeks before your final entry for only 1 race in the graded races. One thing ive learnt about racing is everyone needs everyone. It needs people who bet, companies that take bets, spectators and fans, owners, trainers etc. etc.. so to just say owners can do what they want is a bit naive.
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I have the impression that AP betting is small-scale compared with day of race, though no data to back that up.
I'm not sure your compromise would work. A lot of horses get injured when in fast work in the immediate build up to the Festival. Also, what about the weather/ground? It can be hard enough to tell what they will be 2 days before the race (e.g. Wednesday a couple of years ago, when the clerk watered and it then hosed down). Personally, I enjoy the thrill & challenge of AP betting, but I wouldn't want to make rule changes to help it that worsen the meeting overall. |
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NRNB killed antepost and any value i think Mullins is a separate issue.
If there was no NRNB we might be getting half decent odds for both races but instead he was around Evens or odds on NRNB for both races in the run up. Net result now you get appalling value if you bet NRNB rather than taking your chances before with decent value without the NRNB rule. Your horse could go off form in its prep run then you are stuck with poor value NRNB as well. This was killed by the day of race backers who wanted to have their cake and eat it .. decent prices antepost and their money back if it didn’t run. THIS WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN and now the bookies offer ZILCH instead. |
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Well i used to invest into six figures each year antepost when it was worth doing as it was you against them judgement and skill. Now everyone wants their money back if they get it wrong with NRNB.
Even worse what we see happening now is trying to take antepost prices on here now instead we get stable connections who are very well informed setting their stalls out early taking our cash because we can’t get a decent price antepost at the bookies anymore. NRNB is feeding antepost punters to the lions. |
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The Mullins issue is separate however i believe that that stable and i thought Elliott also in two markets i was playing there were odds being offered that were too good to be true such as Ballyburn for the Supreme since Monday. I had £500 taken quickly and then more lays went straight up there was a definite effort to get him imo above a casual punter or even anyone with a strong view.
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It could be those making money from punter’s dont need to offer value anymore. Mobile phone betting on other sports such as football must dwarf racing turnover so i think the days of taking on the bookie where he had to offer decent fair odds for you to take part have gone … the good old days of judgement and skill are now replaced with an accountancy operation.
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I have gone from investing decent 4 figures to nothing. Mullins is playing system to wait to do what suits him and he is such an influence that its impossible to play now in the novice races and even races like Ryanair. That the star attraction in the novice races still they havent told us where it will run by now is a joke. It stops the media promoting the sport, is bad for betting interest and antepost.
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Good shout Eric
Not on your scale, but I used to have a wedge of ante post slips going into Cheltenham week... Some would be nr's, some would be 20s about a 6/4 shot I especially liked the novice hurdlers Katchit winning the Triumph Hurdle being my best ever Back then you could watch a trial race in the shop and back something straight away for Cheltenham before they cut it... Ladcrooks were the best for not suspending and then being slow to update their odds That all changed and haven't had an AP bet for years |
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On multiple runners there is one other thing to consider. It isn’t Mullins fault his stable is so powerful. However the problem it creates with anyone that powerful is the indecision due to the multiple options available for your horses clashing with each other.
That must be difficult to solve and therefore late announcements are made perhaps as in the case of Ballyburn. If something went wrong with another runner and he was switched the trainer would take some stick for announcing another target earlier. However, we are looking at the first day of the Festival having lost the favourite for the Champion Hurdle, the favourite for the Arkle and perhaps now the favourite for the Supreme the 3 main races for me that make this the best day each year. I bought a ticket early but wont be doing so again until i know running plans. I think a lot will do the same then not being @rsed to go at the last minute. In other words attendance figures will fall imo. |
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Disagree completely. I am not sure how losing encourages ante-post betting.
NRNB came in much later this year. William Hill kicked off, and then there was a big pause. Without NRNB I would be in a much worse position. Unibet went NRNB very late, and Bet 365 have offered two markets. There has been plenty of opportunity to risk taking bigger odds if that's your want. Without NRNB you have no shield against injuries, and what seem like illogical decisions made by some connections. |
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I have a ticket for the Tuesday but have had enough of that day already and might not go. The feature races have the look of handicaps now ffs like the rest of the day other than Mares and Champion Hurdle.
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and that is if you like backing odds on on them.
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The suggestion that any connections do or should care about ante post betting is ridiculous , nothing kills ante post because in the grand scheme of things it was never alive to any degree when looked at as a percentage of any individual race volume.
Bookmakers are committed to competing for business by offering NRNB but with astronomical over rounds which tbf is something we'd all do with good business sense , let's be honest though the huge majority of punters have zero interest in ante post betting on horse racing and if it ceased to exist tomorrow it wouldn't even create a noise aside from a few who very occasionally like to wave a voucher 5 times bigger than the SP whilst forgetting all the other bets that have failed to give them even a run for their money. Bookmakers have another angle to love taking ante post bets in that it creates loyalty , when a punter has an ante post bet running on a site they tend to use that site more frequently and stay more active avoiding more dormant accounts which bookmakers detest. Ante post horse racing should be classed like smoking and come with a government health warning , so then the likes of Willie etc can get on with doing their jobs and adapting to changing circumstances without receiving unwarranted criticism from punters talking from their pockets. Good luck today all  |
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exactly. Tues looks one of worst first days i have ever seen now. The Arkle is a hcp, the CH is a 1/5 horse, Mares race 2/5 and then the Supreme looks awful without Ballyburn.
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Nobody ever said connections have to care. However if it kills their sport well done lads.
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Many of the problems people are mentioning aren't because of Mullins, they're because there are now so many options for horses - get rid of the mares races, intermediate trip races, and the AP picture becomes a lot clearer.
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Antepost has always had a government health warning however it used to have odds to make it worth risking your w(h)ealth.
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I think Mullins is a problem with novice hurdlers. The age old Supreme and SunAlliance are now no go zones antepost.
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All back to Ballyburn again.
How will anyone see it as a no go zone if they have selected the right race for Ballyburn? |
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eric
Antepost has always had a government health warning however it used to have odds to make it worth risking your w(h)ealth. I doubt you'd be anymore odds generous as a bookmaker eric , i certainly wouldn't in the modern climate. |
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Yes i think they don’t care about offering value as they make so much from other sports now in the mobile phone age.
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Your average football punter wouldn’t know value if it hit them in the danglies.
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Bet builders
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Now there's a sport that really does deserve a government health warning , you could employ a chimp to price up the football coupons and bookmakers would still make good money.
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The Tuesday is so important to getting punters to the Festival for the rest of the days with accommodation for the rest of the week and money spent in the area.
Would you go a long way for the Thursday for example if you werent there already? It is the second worst day after the Friday if the Gold Cup didnt rescue that day. Sandwiching the Wed and Thur between the other 2 days in most demand from punters is surely no coincidence. Who would stay the Thursday if it was the last of the 4 days? |
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lol now Gaelic Warrior is favourite for the Arkle after his last attempt.
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I must be naive.
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Ballyburn confirmed for Baring Bingham.
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Here’s an idea.
How about Mullins said on Sunday, before someone who knew what his target was laying above the odds on here since Monday, that the Sun Alliance was the plan unless there were any late hitches? |
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The GC have a legitimate agenda if you are a guide Eric!!
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On it's way out long before Mullins.
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Betfair killed ante-post. Whenever you think you’re getting value there’s a good chance connections are laying it for good reason. Blaming Willie is childish. You know he delays his decision as late as possible and he’s not forcing you to bet ante-post. If you don’t think it’s fair (and I would agree it isn’t and decisions should be made at least before 6 day declarations) don’t bet ante-post.
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Did you not read above it covers those angles?
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Betfair was good for antepost (for me anyway as you could lay off where needed after changing your mind after a performance and adjusting).
NRNB killed antepost as i warned people on here at the time gloating about their NRNB bets getting their money back but in turn removing all value (ie. Not antepost anymore) |
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You do not back Mr Mullins' charges antepost unless they are reigning champions. Sometimes it's more prudent to wait till the day of the race as there's no significant price difference advantage to be gained most of the time.
Mr Mullins' stable is not conducive to antepost betting for non-privileged punters; the Closutton stable operates a concerted practice and will gladly relieve money from punters on late non-runners/withdrawals and multiple entries without a smidgeon of understanding, care or sympathy. The Closutton Stable is self-interest only. There's little punters (except for a boycott) or the BHA can do. But, this is only horseracing - there are many alternative sports to bet on. |
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Ante-post betting on horse racing both codes has been a waste of money for many years. Bookmakers shorten everything up as soon as soon as any form is shown. So unless you have some inside info that they don't have.
Cheltenham in recent years, it just as likely you will get a better price on the day than in the weeks leading up to the festival. And betting on the day de-risks a horse not going for the race you expected. Agree nrnb is not really ante-post betting at all, it should stand for non runner numpties bets. |
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I don’t agree with that the bookmakers used to be extremely fair antepost going back a lot of years.
It was deemed a really difficult task picking the winner of a race a year in advance in a lot of cases. They would take some good bets after a trial and not shorten them to ridiculous prices. I got £1k on Frankel 33/1 the Derby five mins after his debut win over Nathaniel (took 7s later theGuineas) £1k at 25/1 on Eswarah the Oaks just after his i think Newbury win £1k at 25/1 George Washington as a 2yo after a trial win in Ireland £1k at 33/1 Flashy Wings after winning at York when i got home after racing The list can go on. They used to lay bets if you had the gonads to take them on all credit to them in the past. |
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Sure what would be your worry when you only bet WH dbl odds max steak a 5er,I would be fkn embarrassed to quote that on this forum but you keep gambling responsibly.
I had £120 on Ballyburn 12/1 laid off £250 to win £107 so most steak covered. I have 10er @ 16/1 BB as back up for supreme bet so can sell some of it which I will,so you can bet Mullins if on right one and gain a position |
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But you can't see this ^^^
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Cryptic?
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