Racing Post finds unlicensed bookie on WhatsApp

what's the difference there's plenty licensed ones around who are basically criminal in their operations...

Simcock said: "Let's just say you were putting in £2,000. We double it, so you've got £4,000 to bet with. You'll have a £2,000 cash balance and a £2,000 free bet balance. It's up to you how much you put in but, obviously, with Cheltenham coming up, if it was me, I would be making the best use of it and getting in as much as you can, just so you've got funds ready for Cheltenham.

Where do I send the cheque to?

Put in 2 get 2. Must be a money laundering operation
Could only happen to Mottershead

If something sounds too good to be true...

Try withdrawing and see what happens................

Feb 25, 2024 -- 6:50PM, GEORGE.B wrote:

If something sounds too good to be true...

It usually is,

https://www.racingpost.com/news/features/revealed-the-tactics-black-market-b...

That's the bit that the Racing Post's report doesn't state, but should: that such an operation could only be a scam. That only the most vulnerable or desperate would be sending money to such an outfit, and that affordability checks are the very thing which sends punters there.

Affordability checks are the best thing to happen for scammers ever.

What's David's surname? David is David

So Haydn, you're listed as commercial manager on the flyer but now you say you're not employed by David

dodgy barstewards

Feb 25, 2024 -- 6:51PM, Tiger Tiger wrote:

Try withdrawing and see what happens................

Applies to most bookmakers now...don't forget the licensed bookies offer worst odds guaranteed and max liability of £5 too.  They shouldn't have licenses, they're some of the biggest criminals out there!

I agree revs, but at least with licensed bookies you will get your money out at some stage, with the black market bookies you simply lose your money.

1,300 customers yet he says they are a small team of 10. That includes 'David' and this simcock chap.

Punters are reuired to take a screen shot of their bet [using Hills,Bet 3s6d, and two others] and then fire that off via whatsapp before the race so that it can be confirmed as being laid.
a handful of people getting mullered with screenshots at Chelters.
If you don't get a confirmed reply , you're not on [presumably if it wins but you'd definitely be on if the mule got stuffed

So are they just backing it back here on the exchange :-~

It seems only the Racing Post finds this shocking. The biggest "illegal" bookmakers are those with "licences" to trade in the UK, and online; they robbed the problem gamblers (regular mega losers) and fobt addicts for over 2 decades with impunity. They also "fleeced" the recreational punters by restricting and closing their accounts and withholding funds from these punters after account closures.

Feb 25, 2024 -- 7:20PM, Tiger Tiger wrote:

I agree revs, but at least with licensed bookies you will get your money out at some stage, with the black market bookies you simply lose your money.

true, there has to be a better way, punters simply want a decent size bet at a competitive price.  The only solution is the exchanges but putting in a sizeable order usually pushes the market against you so you're left nibbling at prices until you're fully matched.  I used to have some serious antepost bets going into the big meetings but its not worth even looking at the prices as they're laughable now.  They want mug punters who gamble at terrible odds.  The game doesn't interest me anymore, they can stick it!

We're offering matched deposits to all our existing customers as well

We would rather people load up, have money in your accounts and then you're free to go and do whatever you want

Load up ! Load Up !

The only thing missing is the Indian accent.

screaming from beneaththewaves • February 25, 2024 7:17 PM GMT

Affordability checks are the best thing to happen for scammers ever.

I made that point in the consultation and I doubt I was alone. It will be interesting to see if they ignore it.

Maybe many who are betting with them cannot have a bet on the Exchange or any where for that matter ?

Or Nigerian accent. I always say to any unsolicited mobile contract or bank info request from a strong foreign accent individual to pass an English proficiency test prior to calling again. This usually loses their "professional" coolness.

Imagine loading up with £500 (not greedy), and the dodgy firm topping up with another £500 = £1000; chucks the lot on Constitution Hill and the beast wins with Nico waving to the crowd with one hurdle to jump.

Will the dodgy firm pay up, and also facilitate an immediate withdrawal? Replicating this several times the liability will be humongous.

Repeat the above with Lossiemouth or El Fabiola or Sir Gino, etc? It could be a better and quicker return than anything in the City of London.

walofs..

so put 2k in and have 4k on an evens chance...returns 2/1.

How do people pay them or get paid?

ned

The methodology seems bizarre. Surely you would just say we will lay you show price or sp. Matching best early price of a list of bookies is totally unsustainable and reminds me of that bet broker or bet butler (if I remember name correctly) which went under..

Do they lay all bets ?

Or if they cant get rid on here , refuse

Casemoney i doubt they could hedge bets in the 1000s on here especially if they offer early prices. I doubt they could even 1 min before race

they would be quizzed about source of funds etc here

Thats What I was thinking Racing

Yes Dave that's True , Didnt think of that

Yes it Looks Like LOAD UP for Cheltenham


Dave and Haydon Load out at at 6 oclock on the Friday

We need someone on here who is a Millionaire , Sign up and Stick a oner in , Let us know how they get on

Steve ?

Nothing really adds up about their operation imo. It feels very amateur and not real. Considering its a Headline Scoop there are very few details. In fact there is no proof of anything really. I think RP a bit out of comfort zone with investigation pieces….

The Racing Post is virtue-signalling. The Racing Post is sensationalising another "bookie" for their paymasters.

I dont even know why bookies advertise on rp. They dont want any customers im sure who even dare to click on form

How can The Post afford to match customer deposits? Simcock explains and claims the firm has numerous clients within racing

"Listen, we can afford to do it. That's why we do it. A lot of our customers at the moment are owners and trainers and racing managers within horseracing, ultimately because everyone is struggling to get on and people don't want to provide bank statements and affordability checks.

"I know what it's like as well, trying to get a bet on. Obviously I don't bet with The Post. I have to go and use what I can. They are restricting everybody nowadays. It's hard to get on and we are taking them bets. That's why we're busy. We've got so many people betting with us.

"We've been going since 2017. It isn't as if we've just started up and we're not going anywhere any time soon. We are trying to grow the business, although we are a relatively small bookmaker. We've got 1,300 customers and we don't really want to go any further than 1,500, just because of our infrastructure.

"We've got a small team of around ten people, so we can't overload the team. We want to make sure everyone is getting a decent service, so we're capping it at 1,500. I imagine there is going to be quite a big influx of players coming in before the festival, with our matched deposit, but we are going to cap it, so we've time for everybody and everybody can get a decent service."

i can understand deposit 5k and you have 10 to bet with..ie 5k on credit..impossible to match 5k with a free 5k.

Simcock's company Dark Horse Racing Racing Partnership was struck off 17 months after incorporation. He never filed a set of accounts

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13015253/filing-history


19 Apr 2022    Final Gazette dissolved via compulsory strike-off   
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01 Feb 2022    First Gazette notice for compulsory strike-off   
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13 Nov 2020    Incorporation
Statement of capital on 2020-11-13
GBP 1




This article is very short on detail. Poor journalism

owners and trainers and racing managersWho cant get on

if the firms don't shut you, the banks will.

The Racing Post are a shambles. They think they are the Guardian in investigations. Seems to me their sensationalist "headlines" Are just to get people to read and click their ads for betting ( which I block with Ublock Origin) A terrible website that has gone downhill from its previous years.

Don't read and they will soon stop.

WhatsApp betting has been going for Years. Wake Up!

Applies to most bookmakers now...don't forget the licensed bookies offer worst odds guaranteed and max liability of £5 too.  They shouldn't have licenses, they're some of the biggest criminals out there!

Bingo!

The facts are, the whatsapp betting, and black market bookmakers at least lay you a decent bet, and Most have not had problems being payed out.

This is what happens when punters cant get on. Rant over from me

Owners, trainers and racing managers?

Maybe this lot's masterplan is to follow them in. It's like Victor's no-lose accounts, and wasn't StarSports offering something similar? Get the inside info by laying bets, or more likely noting when no bets are made, and trade accordingly. Result, profit.

I would imagine that The Post will be sending the RP a big box of Havana Cuban Cigars for the free advertising.

Non story really - but RP reporting it like a child-abuse story....

The words "Black Market" are being used to demonise bookmakers who are unlicenced in the UK and fair enough when Racing loses out through reduced levy and media rights. However the fact is that there has always been these bookies since racing started, Hills et al all started out similarly.

The type of bookie the RP has engaged and reported on is a world away from what the BHA et al have been lobbying the Government and GC about e.g organised crime syndicates online in other countries etc, this is the first instance I am aware of that a small outfit has been thrust into the spotlight.

There are more out there and the basis of their business model relies on word of mouth and positive experiences, little surprise that relatively big bettors are finding their way into such arrangement if the feedback from other users has been positive. A lot has been said about The Post raking in deposits for the Festival and then disappearing, why would they if they have a growing business? Unlikely to be a huge sum of money and long term if they can sustain their model more lucrative.

For the BHA or GC to close such an operation would be an uphill struggle, even identifying individuals licenced in racing, the only people they could target. Whether or not The Post is run by criminals the bottom line is that they and others like them can succeed and provide a service many will be happy to use and likely to increase if the GC has it's way. Imo though anyone who feels the need would be far better of with an account with an oncourse bookie (s), plenty of whom would welcome their business and as it stands would not be subjected to ACs.

Only good thing would be if it gave some of the 'ban legal gambling' idiots some shivers that they considered...

RP would be better off looking into the dodgy books they promote on their website

"For the BHA or GC to close such an operation would be an uphill struggle, even identifying individuals licenced in racing, the only people they could target. "

People involved in racing can definitely be targeted by the BHA.

Anyone involved can be targeted by the UKGC - taking bets without a bookmaker's licence is a criminal offence.

I would imagine the banking system would be an easy first target - I presume these punters are transferring their deposits to a bank account somewhere and we have seen how easily banks will close accounts - evidence of being used to facilitate illegal gambling ought to be enough?

LOL longbridge, pray enlighten us how the BHA and GC target these individuals, how do you propose they get access to bank accounts or identify them?

As for the unlicenced bookies how many do you know of who have been put out of business by either organisation? Neither seem capable of even talking to each other, never mind co-operating?

Not sure they would welcome the " free publicity " if what they are doing is illegal. If it is legal its a non story surely.?

I'd have thought it reasonably simple to do what the RP did - express interest until invited - create an "account", transfer the starting £500 and then you have all the evidence you need - names, bank account details etc?  If apparently thousands of punters can find these unlicensed bookies, you'd think a determined investigator would have little trouble?

As for the inability of the UKGC and BHA to do such a simple thing, then yes, if they have any successes in this area they are not shouting about them.

And you think the bookies will not have all the bases covered in terms of accounts etc, they will be miles ahead of any investigator either organisation has!!

Bookmakers have been closing/restricting (on-line) accounts for the past 20+ years - where did they (and the racing Post) think that all of those customers would go?

It wasn't a problem. When on-line "bookmakers" were proactively driving/forcing winners to use the "Black Market".

All of a sudden now that losers are being pushed towards the "Black Market", they are interested and outraged?

They describe the "black market" as though it is evil and dangerous, dark and shady. My guess is it's not a patch on the dark and shady practices that (supposedly) regulated on-line bookmakers have been getting away with for the past 20+ years.

What goes around, comes around. Good for goose, good for gander, chickens home to roost, etc, etc.

Spot on TM.

No idea if this is legit:

https://twitter.com/AKBets87/status/1762077128881754280

the language used suggests it has not been written by a native English speaker I would say?

So if legit, where do we think it is being run out of?

Probably some shady and dodgy destination like Malta, Gibraltar or Dublin?

The only thing the RP have achieved with this story is ensuring 1200 customers with this mob have their funds frozen inside the accounts, all in the name of sensationalist journalism. Nothing will change, and these chancers will just move on in a period of time and start up again

not sure why people critisise bookmakers..callgaryliar regularly gets £250-350 bog bets with baldfreds.

and most win allegedly.

Couldn't agree more with what The Management says. Funny how the RP aren't too worried by the big bookmakers advertising on their website who have operated illegally in Black Mkt in Asia and Middle East! The RP never ever stood up for the punter and against the scandalous practices of the big firms over the last few years because the money was flowing in. Now its going down suddenly they seem to be 'on top' of all these issues. Its like the Tory party telling us how great they are at fixing problems that they created themselves.

I posted this on the other thread (thinking it was this one):

What do you fear most?

1) Dealing with an illegal Black Market bookmaker that isn't regulated.
2) Sending all your personal and banking information to a supposedly "regulated" bookmaker.

I can't see much difference personally - in terms of risk.

Both equally likely to end in tears. Licensed bookmakers are only regulated by an ineffective quango that has proven to be horribly out of it's depth for the past 20 years. They are hardly the FCA!. Licensed and regulated has meant nothing, they've done whatever they like and the customer has had no recourse.

At a guess (going by their customer service), there is every chance that once you upload your documents they will be processed in India or Manilla (or wherever is cheapest these days) by agency staff on minimum wage.

they dont have a minimum wage. which is why everything is outsourced there

youd have to crackers to deposit more than a trifling amount to a bookmaker only appearing on whatsapp(whatever that is)

c i t i b e t the only one worth considering as theyve been around a long time and liquidity is strong

Some more "lies" for you rico and note paid on and paid out, Foyles still waiting for his payment?

Great couple of posts T.M , eloquently put   

so tobymugs skinning bald fred with £350 bog bets and still being accomodated?

pmsl.

Pis$ed yourself looking a fool yet again, you have no clue and lose every time, fortunately for you I never expected you pay up but Foyles not being paid shows you for what you are, broke and a scamming welcher!!

only person in britain that can have what he wants with baldfred...ydc ewe must be doing your bollixx.

post a picture of your baldfred p&l history...

obv ewe wont

Keep seething shafter!!!

post a picture of your baldfred p&l history...

If I did it would not be FAKE like your templates, you know it having lost every time, keep seething but pay Foyles!!!

Cagliari just find the bet and post it ffs….

What bet Quixall?

The one the Wallsend wonder is referring to..

All been posted Quixall which is why he is in a seething melt down of envy and losing again!!! Foyles still waiting for £280 though.

The Racing Post have an agenda themselves. They promote Casino Bookmakers that use your own personal private Data, and Sell it to the highest bidder. Stay well away from anything they write and any products they promote.

Trident

"Bookmakers that use your own personal private Data, and Sell it to the highest bidder."

That's a lumpy (probably criminal) accusation - any evidence?

Are you not aware Longbridge how bookmakers collect data of customers? Example your limited somewhere, and you then you get limited stakes somewhere else?

If you think your own data is carefully stored somewhere, your living in fairy land.

sent a SAR to 356 asking for everything they had on me.

got an email back saying thanks for getting in touch, your account is still closed

give up ...

tobymugs posts a winning bet that obv's means he's along term winner? TDC

people get restricted as soon as they show a profit yet tobygaryliarmugs claiming hundreds on ev bet @bog with bald fred...

abso fckn pmsl.

Interesting one Trident - if they were directly passing details of customers to competitors, that (aiui) would definitely be illegal.

And why would they?  If I (Bookie A) know you (Punter 1) is someone I have stake-limited (etc), why would I let competitor (Bookie B) know this, rather than letting you rinse Bookie B until they work it out for themselves?

I may be naive, Longbridge. I was under the assumption a huge majority of Casinos are sleeping together on a regular basis!

Ex:Casino/bookmaker A had limited me to pennies.

I sign up with Casino/Bookmaker B (not associated in any way with Bookmaker A ownership wise. (I checked)

Within 2 hours of opening an account with Casino/bookmaker B my account was also limited, and crucially I hadn't even had a BET!. Also take into account that Ide not opened an account with any other associates of bookmaker B before.

This was 3 years ago, So I'm not convinced data sharing email-usernames other details etc is not kept secure, private or secret IMO. I was also sent emails from both wanting me to sign up to casino/slots from another Casino C that in NO way should have access to my personal email address.

Thats how I feel.

And don't forget this Longbridge,  A lot of these mighty cooperations down the line acquire other small casino/bookmakers (they know exactly years before who they are after) they then get merged into one. Eventually, everyone's details merge together within a small-time frame.

There are a dwindling number of competitive individual casinos around these days competing, with a UKGC licence, anyway!

I admit I assumed bookies passed on info. I was merrily going using many bookmakers accounts but once I was restricted/closed on one it seemed to cause a domino effect and over a period of maybe 15 months all were down the same route. It could be they all sheepishly followed the same strategy I suppose.

there is iesnare or similar which the info commissioner decided wasn't personal data and could be accessed by all bookies.

We are all vulnerable online choose whatever companies are involved.

Trident - oh, if the allegation had been that BF let PP and SkyBet, or Ladrokes let Coral know who they are restricting (etc etc) I'd not have raised an eyebrow - it was the "selling to the highest bidder" that caught my eye.

Hi - your information is shared. After same happened to me. Got restricted and did subject access request. The brand used a sportsbook odds provider Kambi. So Kambi had some of my data and profiled me - then when i signed up at new operator - they restricted me straight away. Given most brands are sharing and using same third party games, tools and companies for a variety of reasons, it seems fine that info is shared and then this info is used by third parties to flag to other brands regards your activity on other brands. If not directly but indirectly e.g profitable player. Obviously they use words like 'fraud' to justify it. And its in their terms. When we all know why they do it. The brand i complained to claimed it wasnt 'personally identifiable data' You can judge for yourself. ''We provide year of birth and postcode only; this is to enable Kambi to provide relevant services as well as for their own fraud prevention processes and isn’t considered identifiable information alone. However, when used with other information that we hold (such as name, day and month of birth or full address) this could be used to identify''

Shared customer business mix information is certainly nothing new , i specifically asked my trading team NOT to share private customer information with other company teams as a company stance but knowing full well the request would fall on deaf ears , these traders have been flitting from company to company for decades and know so many opposition staff personally that they will always converse to make their jobs easier.

Absolute no brainer and impossible to stop the whispers , that said actual exchanging of written documentation never happened so it's generally hearsay anyway with no repercussions.


Good luck today all   

@racing

"When we all know why they do it."

That's the bit I don't get.  If true, why are they interested in protecting their rivals from punters who will dent their profits?

It's not company hierarchy that get involved longbridge it's the trading / marketing teams that converse off their own bat , basically mates helping each other out to make their job easier.

Companies in general are continually trying to make life more difficult for the other with concessions and such like but the staff are a different ball game , if a company acquired a big hitter this afternoon punting 4 or even wanting a 5 figure bet the said company would know what he had for breakfast within an hour as he will have been punting with one of the so called enemies at some time.

It's never been any different and never will be.

longbridge27 Feb 24 12:46Joined: 25 Nov 10 | Topic/replies: 4,468 | Blogger: longbridge's bl
That's the bit I don't get.  If true, why are they interested in protecting their rivals from punters who will dent their profits?

Because it is reciprocal.

Thanks T.M.

I never use a one word response when 20 will do the job   

Same here usually!

Owners, trainers and racing managers?

Maybe this lot's masterplan is to follow them in. It's like Victor's no-lose accounts, and wasn't StarSports offering something similar? Get the inside info by laying bets, or more likely noting when no bets are made, and trade accordingly. Result, profit.

spot on Ram that's what I was pointing out , 1300 Members and ten People working to Take there Bets , How many bets will the 1300 Be having Each day , I suspect very few

The 10 People Are required for Other reasons IMO ,I wonder if Everyone could get the Matched 2000 Deposit , Or does it Depend who you are ? 

A 2k payment for life time info from Some people would be very good Value IMO

Back on the original topic.

If "The Post" are suspending accounts until they can partner with a UKGC licensed bookmaker, that's end-of for them is it not?  Their reason for existence was to bypass the controls the UKGC insists on?

obvious play for time bs