Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Quite right too.
While head of power at the BHA Julie Harrington is sat on her chair stroking her white **** Bond villain style, quaffing a fine wine with her cronies on a zoom call the travelling stable staff are expected to work their day off at the behest of their masters, tonight.
Don't have access to the full article on the RP site but it's apparent that the jockeys are reaching out for the protection of the lads and lasses that already make sacrifices to look after the horses in their charge.
A gimmick that affects the employees who earn a meagre wage and very often expolited as many a recent expose has highlighted.
*****
While head of power at the BHA Julie Harrington is sat on her chair stroking her white **** Bond villain style, quaffing a fine wine with her cronies on a zoom call the travelling stable staff are expected to work their day off at the behest of their masters, tonight.
Don't have access to the full article on the RP site but it's apparent that the jockeys are reaching out for the protection of the lads and lasses that already make sacrifices to look after the horses in their charge.
A gimmick that affects the employees who earn a meagre wage and very often expolited as many a recent expose has highlighted.
*****
Show More
In 1975, many stable staff at Newmarket were members of the Transport and General Workers Union (TGWU). They went on strike for better working conditions, but the strike was met with hostility from trainers, jockeys and racegoers. It was settled but many strikers were not allowed to return to their jobs despite the settlement including a no victimisation clause. Some won cases at industrial tribunals. Disillusioned with the TGWU, many broke away to form the Stable Lads Association, the idea for which was Viv Baldwin's who enlisted John Oaksey and Jimmy Hill to help set it up. Tommy Delaney, a former jockey, became its first secretary. Viv Baldwin remained involved with the association until 2010. By 2007, membership stood at 1,250. The organisation then renamed itself as the National Association of Stable Staff, and within three years increased membership to 2,000. In 2009, the union affiliated with the Trades Union Congress.
In August 2017, the union renamed itself as the National Association of Racing Staff.
In August 2017, the union renamed itself as the National Association of Racing Staff.
Sunday evening racing: 'Every single member of staff I spoke to yesterday was working this morning'
Stable staff union boss George McGrath says he encountered a whole gamut of reactions from his members at Wolverhampton on Sunday evening, the first of six trial fixtures in what has previously been an empty slot in the racing week.
McGrath was on site to survey members of the National Association of Racing Staff (Nars) from shortly after midday on Sunday, and while plenty felt the trial-specific additional payment of £150 made giving up their Sunday either worthwhile, or at least acceptable, a minority view echoed the sentiments of jockeys Robert Havlin and Callum Shepherd, both of whom were on duty on Sunday evening but were critical of the whole concept.
"I had a fairly basic ten-point questionnaire which still covered all the issues, and I got 66 staff to fill those out," said McGrath. "In terms of a survey, I think that's quite a significant response.
"Of those I spoke to, there was a lot of ambivalence about it. A lot of staff said the money's good and some said it was a deciding factor."
McGrath added: "Those who were opposed – and I have to be honest and say that they were in a significant minority – were very opposed."
McGrath plans to attend all six meetings – the final one is at Southwell on March 10 – and said it was too early to get a true reflection of what the feeling is on the ground. And he believes that any discussion on Sunday evenings has to be tied to a wider debate surrounding working practices in racing yards.
"It's one thing to ask somebody on one particular Sunday," said McGrath. "We'll get the true picture when we've run all six.
"Every single member of staff I spoke to yesterday was working this morning. Nobody told me they would be having a day off in the week. That’s the work-life balance issue. Too many of my members are still working one weekend in two. Whether trainers say they can’t rota it any other way is irrelevant."
Stable staff union boss George McGrath says he encountered a whole gamut of reactions from his members at Wolverhampton on Sunday evening, the first of six trial fixtures in what has previously been an empty slot in the racing week.
McGrath was on site to survey members of the National Association of Racing Staff (Nars) from shortly after midday on Sunday, and while plenty felt the trial-specific additional payment of £150 made giving up their Sunday either worthwhile, or at least acceptable, a minority view echoed the sentiments of jockeys Robert Havlin and Callum Shepherd, both of whom were on duty on Sunday evening but were critical of the whole concept.
"I had a fairly basic ten-point questionnaire which still covered all the issues, and I got 66 staff to fill those out," said McGrath. "In terms of a survey, I think that's quite a significant response.
"Of those I spoke to, there was a lot of ambivalence about it. A lot of staff said the money's good and some said it was a deciding factor."
McGrath added: "Those who were opposed – and I have to be honest and say that they were in a significant minority – were very opposed."
McGrath plans to attend all six meetings – the final one is at Southwell on March 10 – and said it was too early to get a true reflection of what the feeling is on the ground. And he believes that any discussion on Sunday evenings has to be tied to a wider debate surrounding working practices in racing yards.
"It's one thing to ask somebody on one particular Sunday," said McGrath. "We'll get the true picture when we've run all six.
"Every single member of staff I spoke to yesterday was working this morning. Nobody told me they would be having a day off in the week. That’s the work-life balance issue. Too many of my members are still working one weekend in two. Whether trainers say they can’t rota it any other way is irrelevant."
Only two senior jockeys felt able to speak up against it, though they have already been labelled the minority.
Bookmakers have unsurprisingly labelled it a success.
Field sizes are almost guaranteed to fill if you offer 3 times the prize money.
I think it’s a terrible idea, they race every other night of the week under floodlights. 9 race cards, sometimes 2 of them. What’s wrong with one night when there is no racing, or even the odd day.
Bookmakers have unsurprisingly labelled it a success.
Field sizes are almost guaranteed to fill if you offer 3 times the prize money.
I think it’s a terrible idea, they race every other night of the week under floodlights. 9 race cards, sometimes 2 of them. What’s wrong with one night when there is no racing, or even the odd day.
Thank you booster.
This is from the Stable Staff Association.....
Hours of work
A normal full time week is 40 hours (excluding meal breaks) and includes 5 hours every Saturday morning unless contracted otherwise
*Staff aged 16 and 17 should not work more than 8 hours a day and 40 hours a week. Staff aged 18 and over should not exceed an average of 48 hours for each 7 days.
Section 3 – Memorandum of Agreement
The normal full time week is 40 hours (excluding meal breaks). There is no set pattern on how a yard should work these hours. However, unless the individual employee’s contract states otherwise the normal full time week will include 5 hours every Saturday morning. Any overtime above the basic 40 hour working week will be paid in accordance with paragraph 4. Time away racing is to be paid in accordance with paragraph 5.
(3.1) In planning the working week, employers must have regard to the Working Time Regulations – further information on these is available in the BHA Health and Safety Manual (the Red Book).
(3.2) Having regard to the nature and requirement of the industry, racing staff shall work during weekends subject to their right to one weekend in two free from duties on a rota basis. Variations of this arrangement can be made provided it is agreed domestically.
(3.3) Working Time legislation limits the maximum working week for 16 and 17 year old workers to 8 hours a day and 40 hours a week. There are certain permitted exceptions whereby the limit may be exceeded – these will rarely apply. Further guidance on the legislation and exceptions is available for NTF members in the NTF employment guide and from the NTF office.
(3.4) For adult workers (those aged 18 and over) their working time should not exceed an average of 48 hours for each seven days applied over the reference period. By collective agreement between the NTF and NARS, the reference period is 52 weeks. Individual employees whose working time is likely to exceed an average of 48 hours over 52 weeks can be excluded from the weekly limit provided they sign an opt out agreement. Further information is available in the BHA Health and Safety Manual.
This is from the Stable Staff Association.....
Hours of work
A normal full time week is 40 hours (excluding meal breaks) and includes 5 hours every Saturday morning unless contracted otherwise
*Staff aged 16 and 17 should not work more than 8 hours a day and 40 hours a week. Staff aged 18 and over should not exceed an average of 48 hours for each 7 days.
Section 3 – Memorandum of Agreement
The normal full time week is 40 hours (excluding meal breaks). There is no set pattern on how a yard should work these hours. However, unless the individual employee’s contract states otherwise the normal full time week will include 5 hours every Saturday morning. Any overtime above the basic 40 hour working week will be paid in accordance with paragraph 4. Time away racing is to be paid in accordance with paragraph 5.
(3.1) In planning the working week, employers must have regard to the Working Time Regulations – further information on these is available in the BHA Health and Safety Manual (the Red Book).
(3.2) Having regard to the nature and requirement of the industry, racing staff shall work during weekends subject to their right to one weekend in two free from duties on a rota basis. Variations of this arrangement can be made provided it is agreed domestically.
(3.3) Working Time legislation limits the maximum working week for 16 and 17 year old workers to 8 hours a day and 40 hours a week. There are certain permitted exceptions whereby the limit may be exceeded – these will rarely apply. Further guidance on the legislation and exceptions is available for NTF members in the NTF employment guide and from the NTF office.
(3.4) For adult workers (those aged 18 and over) their working time should not exceed an average of 48 hours for each seven days applied over the reference period. By collective agreement between the NTF and NARS, the reference period is 52 weeks. Individual employees whose working time is likely to exceed an average of 48 hours over 52 weeks can be excluded from the weekly limit provided they sign an opt out agreement. Further information is available in the BHA Health and Safety Manual.
This is being run purely for the benefit of bookmakers and to further feed the habit of compulsive gamblers. Any small financial benefit to racing will go to a small handful of owners from an increase in prize money for those races but the detrimental effect to the majority in the industry will be widely felt. Just have a night off for God's sake.
I enjoy it and I'm sure many others do. I couldn't care less about bookmakers as I do not seek to give them my business at any time not just Sundays.
You may not care about bookmakers , you give your business to Betfair instead so it's much the same. It's more about caring for the stable staff, driving home for 4 hours from the track, arriving back at midnight and expected to be back in at 6am to go again because horses don't feed and exercise themselves. There's hardly a glut of stable staff going free.
sparrow, I thought as an ex-union man you cared about workers rights and their physical and mental health. Forget the NRAS regulations, stable staff will no doubt be required to sign the opt out agreement if they want to keep their jobs.
sparrow, I thought as an ex-union man you cared about workers rights and their physical and mental health. Forget the NRAS regulations, stable staff will no doubt be required to sign the opt out agreement if they want to keep their jobs.
As an ex union official of course I care about the stable staff and would expect their union and activists to do their best for the membership. However, Sunday working is something many working people are expected to do and should never result in extra hours in the agreed working week unless the member concerned wishes to work the overtime. Having spent most of my working life working a five or six day week I like tens of thousands of other working people had to work on a Sunday when required. I was supporting striking stable staff during their strike in 1975 and recall many racegoers taking an opposite view so forgive me if I am a little sceptical regarding the concern now. I don't include yourself swifty in that last remark as I'm sure you do have their interests at heart.
With the staff shortages many will be working excesssive hours, some by choice no doubt with the cash incentive but probably a lot by obligation.
I'm just thinking of families and a day of rest, well the day itself has already gone , in fact that's possibly the slot which they should be concentrating on, as in Ireland. Higher quality racing in the afternoon should see turnover up. The bookies could get their money in 3 hours rather than drip by drip over 7 or 8 hours until they bleed the customer dry. I can't see how courses will turn a profit without the subsidies.
I'm just thinking of families and a day of rest, well the day itself has already gone , in fact that's possibly the slot which they should be concentrating on, as in Ireland. Higher quality racing in the afternoon should see turnover up. The bookies could get their money in 3 hours rather than drip by drip over 7 or 8 hours until they bleed the customer dry. I can't see how courses will turn a profit without the subsidies.
Aims of the experiment.
1. “The betting industry will make the figures available to the BHA and we have set targets. We’d like to see these meetings outperform a regular all-weather night meeting by 15-20 per cent, even if it does do that it doesn’t necessarily mean it will carry on.”
Turnover was on a par with a midweek A/W evening meeting so that's a fail [so far]
2. BHA - one of the main aims of Sunday racing was to help grow interest in British racing.
Crowd was around 600/700 which falls short of the 1,000/2,000 they get at Wolvehampton on a 'normal' weekend meeting - so that's anothe rfail [so far].
This would have been better served if it was taking place in the spring / Summer not in freezing conditions just after Xmas when families have done their cobs and with the children back at school.
Cockeyed BHA totally out of touch with the person on the street in a cash-strapped UK
1. “The betting industry will make the figures available to the BHA and we have set targets. We’d like to see these meetings outperform a regular all-weather night meeting by 15-20 per cent, even if it does do that it doesn’t necessarily mean it will carry on.”
Turnover was on a par with a midweek A/W evening meeting so that's a fail [so far]
2. BHA - one of the main aims of Sunday racing was to help grow interest in British racing.
Crowd was around 600/700 which falls short of the 1,000/2,000 they get at Wolvehampton on a 'normal' weekend meeting - so that's anothe rfail [so far].
This would have been better served if it was taking place in the spring / Summer not in freezing conditions just after Xmas when families have done their cobs and with the children back at school.
Cockeyed BHA totally out of touch with the person on the street in a cash-strapped UK
Can't see how it will grow interest.
Anyone who wants to watch a 0-60 race under floodlights can do so any other day of the week.
It will just be the same humans and robots that turn up for any other AW meeting. It's just pure greed from the bookmakers and another step towards round the clock 24/7 racing.
Anyone who wants to watch a 0-60 race under floodlights can do so any other day of the week.
It will just be the same humans and robots that turn up for any other AW meeting. It's just pure greed from the bookmakers and another step towards round the clock 24/7 racing.
Time will tell as to where the industry is going and not anybody's particular like or dislike. If you don't like lower grade racing then don't bother with it as I don't with the type of racing I have no interest in. People are using the stable staff in order to have their usual moan about AW racing.
Big Narstie 800 Southwell tonight. If it wins would that be good for AW racing?
I have nothing against low grade, or AW racing. I'm a fan.
I much prefer it when it is on in the day though. Im not a fan of the 11am starts, 830 pm finishes, particularly in the winter. I don't mind the twilight ones when they finish 630/7pm(like yesterday), though going on until 830 on any January night seems unnecessary, let alone on a Sunday.
I get the argument if you don't like it, you don't have to watch it, and that you don't have to watch it all. But I prefer it when it is possible to watch it all, you can follow the sport in its entirety, and still have a few spare evenings too. When you start telling people if you don't like it, don't watch it, the trouble is they don't, then they find other things to do, then they never return. I still think there is far too much racing on, and I don't like how they are stretching it out to make sure that it is ALWAYS on. I find it overkill and off putting.
But as you say, each to their own, im sure some people love the idea of wall to wall racing. Xmas eve will be next.
I much prefer it when it is on in the day though. Im not a fan of the 11am starts, 830 pm finishes, particularly in the winter. I don't mind the twilight ones when they finish 630/7pm(like yesterday), though going on until 830 on any January night seems unnecessary, let alone on a Sunday.
I get the argument if you don't like it, you don't have to watch it, and that you don't have to watch it all. But I prefer it when it is possible to watch it all, you can follow the sport in its entirety, and still have a few spare evenings too. When you start telling people if you don't like it, don't watch it, the trouble is they don't, then they find other things to do, then they never return. I still think there is far too much racing on, and I don't like how they are stretching it out to make sure that it is ALWAYS on. I find it overkill and off putting.
But as you say, each to their own, im sure some people love the idea of wall to wall racing. Xmas eve will be next.
Coral spokesperson David Stevens said: “New initiatives such as this should always be given time to bed-in, and this first meeting was up against a big FA Cup match live on terrestrial TV (Arsenal versus Liverpool), which would have had an impact, but overall it was a very solid start, with turnover on a par with a typical evening meeting.”
The same two sides also clash on the 3rd fixture at Newc on 04/Feb-4.30 kick off.
The 5th fixture , 03/Mar newc Fixture might collide with Man Utd v Man City [almost certain to be super sunday game @4.30 if moved from sat 02/Mar although Man City play Copenhagen on 6/Mar.]
The 6th and final fixture, 10/Mar South, will probably collide with Liverpool v Man City [almost certain to be a Super Sunday game @4.30]
There's also a 6 Nations game on Mar 10th [wales v france 3.00]
The same two sides also clash on the 3rd fixture at Newc on 04/Feb-4.30 kick off.
The 5th fixture , 03/Mar newc Fixture might collide with Man Utd v Man City [almost certain to be super sunday game @4.30 if moved from sat 02/Mar although Man City play Copenhagen on 6/Mar.]
The 6th and final fixture, 10/Mar South, will probably collide with Liverpool v Man City [almost certain to be a Super Sunday game @4.30]
There's also a 6 Nations game on Mar 10th [wales v france 3.00]
BR, that's the point, if you want to keep up to date with all the form you have to watch it (OK, you can catch it up later) but who wants it 24/7?
I'm a big AW fan and have been from the outset. Anything to improve the prize money, quality, integrity, I'm all for but on a Sunday night, really?
As for Big Narstie, a drop in grade, a pair of blinkers, can it really turn a horse around from running like a corpse a week ago? We'll see, but that's the problem with AW (and very probably racing in general if they want to get new blood interested).
leif, that's race planning for you, they only really check when the FA cup final is.
I'm a big AW fan and have been from the outset. Anything to improve the prize money, quality, integrity, I'm all for but on a Sunday night, really?
As for Big Narstie, a drop in grade, a pair of blinkers, can it really turn a horse around from running like a corpse a week ago? We'll see, but that's the problem with AW (and very probably racing in general if they want to get new blood interested).
leif, that's race planning for you, they only really check when the FA cup final is.
Yes, I agree swiftynifty. If keeping up with the form becomes an impossible task, which it now more or less is, people will lose interest, not gain. And as you say, if you want to keep up with the form, you do have to watch it. Same for a jockey, if they want to keep their rides and their owners and trainers happy, then they’ve got no choice.
When I started following AW, in the winter, there was one meeting per day. No AW on a Sunday or a Thursday, no evening racing, except for the Saturday night fixture at Wolverhampton. I’m not saying we go back to that, but somewhere in between that and what we have now would make it far easier to follow imo. I can probably name more AW horses from 20+ years ago, than I could name that ran last week. There is just too much on at present and it’s very difficult to follow.
When I started following AW, in the winter, there was one meeting per day. No AW on a Sunday or a Thursday, no evening racing, except for the Saturday night fixture at Wolverhampton. I’m not saying we go back to that, but somewhere in between that and what we have now would make it far easier to follow imo. I can probably name more AW horses from 20+ years ago, than I could name that ran last week. There is just too much on at present and it’s very difficult to follow.
I can probably name more AW horses from 20+ years ago, than I could name that ran last week
Same here! You got to know the horses but now , all year round with lots of maiden races on every card, it's impossible. I'm not saying it was straighter back then, almost definitely not, but I liked it more.
Same here! You got to know the horses but now , all year round with lots of maiden races on every card, it's impossible. I'm not saying it was straighter back then, almost definitely not, but I liked it more.
Not got much time for Harrington, she's a one trick pony , same business model where ever she goes.
Disappointing the likes of Varian, C.Appleby - massive stables, feel the need to go racing on Sunday night, there owners don't care about winning £8k for a maiden rather than £4k..should be leaving a bight of the cherry to smaller yards.
These Sunday night meetings should be limited to stables based with 50 miles of the course .
Disappointing the likes of Varian, C.Appleby - massive stables, feel the need to go racing on Sunday night, there owners don't care about winning £8k for a maiden rather than £4k..should be leaving a bight of the cherry to smaller yards.
These Sunday night meetings should be limited to stables based with 50 miles of the course .
https://www.racingpost.com/news/opinion/comment/racings-workforce-is-stretch...
Julie Harrington, chief executive of the British Horseracing Authority, says a judgement on the success of Premier Racedays and Sunday evening racing should not be made overnight.
The first of 170 Premier Racedays planned for 2024 was staged at Cheltenham on New Year’s Day, while Wolverhampton created a slice of history when becoming the first track to race in the UK on Sunday night.
While both schemes have come in for criticism in some quarters, Harrington is keen to assess all of the relevant data relating to the six trial Sunday evening fixtures and the two-year pilot of Premier Racedays before making any snap decisions.
“Premier Racedays were introduced this year to showcase the best our sport can offer to new and existing fans as part of a broader strategy to grow British racing,” she said in a statement on Tuesday.
“And while this concept will see a gradual roll-out, with innovations and enhancements to the customer experience delivered throughout the year, it has been heartening to see the positive initial response to Premier racing from the public, racecourses and participants.
“There were high-quality runners at Plumpton on Sunday, with races taking place in front of healthy and engaged crowds. And of course, the year began with a big crowd at Cheltenham enjoying quality racing at our first Premier fixture.
“The 170 Premier Racedays planned for 2024 reflect a significant investment by the sport. These are fixtures proposed by the racecourses which meet strict criteria, including around prize-money and race quality. We should be encouraged that so many racecourses want to invest in and stage these Premier events.
“We will also see more promotional work and, we hope, an HBLB-funded national campaign to support the work already being done by GBR and the racecourses.
“Ultimately, the objective is to encourage more, better-quality horses to be bred, trained, owned and raced in Britain. The sport has agreed that putting on high-quality, valuable racing is the way to achieve this.
“We must accept that this will not happen overnight. But we have made a start on creating and developing an attractive product to secure a long-term future for the sport by encouraging greater engagement with it. Time and experience will help us determine the optimum number of Premier Racedays with regards to racecourses and the horse population.”
She added: “This is the start of a two-year pilot and so we should resist the temptation to make snap judgements on its success based on limited experience. Throughout the pilot we will learn what does and does not work, how we can best package and promote Premier Racedays and ultimately achieve growth that will benefit all levels of the sport.
“Alongside Premier Racedays we also started the trial of Sunday evening racing at Wolverhampton. This saw good prize-money on offer to healthy field sizes meaning competitive racing was taking place in a window we believe affords us an opportunity to grow engagement with the sport.
“Clearly there are a range of views regarding this pilot and we respect those opinions. For this reason, the financial performance of these fixtures will be far from the only measure of their viability; we will continue to seek the views of all those involved in servicing such meetings and this feedback will form a core part of the ultimate assessment of the pilot.”
https://www.attheraces.com/news/2024/January/09/bha-calls-for-premier-and-sunday-evening-fixtures-to-be-given-time
The first of 170 Premier Racedays planned for 2024 was staged at Cheltenham on New Year’s Day, while Wolverhampton created a slice of history when becoming the first track to race in the UK on Sunday night.
While both schemes have come in for criticism in some quarters, Harrington is keen to assess all of the relevant data relating to the six trial Sunday evening fixtures and the two-year pilot of Premier Racedays before making any snap decisions.
“Premier Racedays were introduced this year to showcase the best our sport can offer to new and existing fans as part of a broader strategy to grow British racing,” she said in a statement on Tuesday.
“And while this concept will see a gradual roll-out, with innovations and enhancements to the customer experience delivered throughout the year, it has been heartening to see the positive initial response to Premier racing from the public, racecourses and participants.
“There were high-quality runners at Plumpton on Sunday, with races taking place in front of healthy and engaged crowds. And of course, the year began with a big crowd at Cheltenham enjoying quality racing at our first Premier fixture.
“The 170 Premier Racedays planned for 2024 reflect a significant investment by the sport. These are fixtures proposed by the racecourses which meet strict criteria, including around prize-money and race quality. We should be encouraged that so many racecourses want to invest in and stage these Premier events.
“We will also see more promotional work and, we hope, an HBLB-funded national campaign to support the work already being done by GBR and the racecourses.
“Ultimately, the objective is to encourage more, better-quality horses to be bred, trained, owned and raced in Britain. The sport has agreed that putting on high-quality, valuable racing is the way to achieve this.
“We must accept that this will not happen overnight. But we have made a start on creating and developing an attractive product to secure a long-term future for the sport by encouraging greater engagement with it. Time and experience will help us determine the optimum number of Premier Racedays with regards to racecourses and the horse population.”
She added: “This is the start of a two-year pilot and so we should resist the temptation to make snap judgements on its success based on limited experience. Throughout the pilot we will learn what does and does not work, how we can best package and promote Premier Racedays and ultimately achieve growth that will benefit all levels of the sport.
“Alongside Premier Racedays we also started the trial of Sunday evening racing at Wolverhampton. This saw good prize-money on offer to healthy field sizes meaning competitive racing was taking place in a window we believe affords us an opportunity to grow engagement with the sport.
“Clearly there are a range of views regarding this pilot and we respect those opinions. For this reason, the financial performance of these fixtures will be far from the only measure of their viability; we will continue to seek the views of all those involved in servicing such meetings and this feedback will form a core part of the ultimate assessment of the pilot.”
https://www.attheraces.com/news/2024/January/09/bha-calls-for-premier-and-sunday-evening-fixtures-to-be-given-time
HBLB attendance data.
Att Bookmakers Runners
Tue 02/01/2024 WOLVERHAMPTON 241 7 67 Flat Awt
Fri 05/01/2024 WOLVERHAMPTON 402 5 82 Flat Awt
Sun 07/01/2024 WOLVERHAMPTON 405 7 88 Flat Aw
Att Bookmakers Runners
Tue 02/01/2024 WOLVERHAMPTON 241 7 67 Flat Awt
Fri 05/01/2024 WOLVERHAMPTON 402 5 82 Flat Awt
Sun 07/01/2024 WOLVERHAMPTON 405 7 88 Flat Aw
SO reports of a 600/700 crowd was premature, or did they include the owners that turned up.
Yet again they wait until something has commenced to voice their concern.
https://www.racingpost.com/news/opinion/comment/if-theres-money-in-sunday-evening-racing-then-the-sport-would-be-foolish-not-to-follow-it-avGwY8F5SKfI/
If there's money in Sunday evening racing then the sport would be foolish not to follow it
Peter Thomas
Senior features writer
anyone able to kindly post the article plz
If there's money in Sunday evening racing then the sport would be foolish not to follow it
Peter Thomas
Senior features writer
anyone able to kindly post the article plz
Zzzzzz
Don’t like or agree don’t watch,it’s easy !
Ffs
Don’t like or agree don’t watch,it’s easy !
Ffs
The article referred to above:
When you move to a country village you get used to the reality that certain 'old ways' persist. There are shops that have moved with the times, but others, for example, that still close for lunch, take a half-day every Wednesday, certainly don't open on a Sunday and shut for random weeks throughout the summer.
It induces flashbacks to the dark ages, when, if you worked in an office and needed to pay a bill (not online, obviously), you would find that the places you needed to go to were all closed for lunch, to coincide neatly with your lunch break, which was the only free time you had.
It was a question of tail wagging dog; the wishes of a business and its employees being placed above the needs of the customer. Of course, if it hadn't made commercial sense, there would have been no point in adapting, but increased competition for business meant the world changed.
Racing increasingly finds itself in the same situation. Its work patterns have already adjusted to such alien concepts as Good Friday racing and now it faces another imposition in the shape of Sunday evenings – only six for the time being, but rest assured, if those six work, there will be more.
The demands on stable staff have understandably been put forward by colleagues this week as the main stumbling block, but my early quizzing of trainers suggested that if the money were there, the will to embrace the project would follow. If the new meetings engage the betting public sufficiently then surely it's not unfeasible that bonuses for staff will prove an irresistible carrot and extra prize-money will enable trainers to adjust staffing levels or rotas accordingly.
The bottom line is that we can't go on grumbling about parlous finances and then refuse to go along with schemes that threaten to improve the situation, no matter how many feathers they ruffle along the way.
Other sports have bitten the bullet, and although people playing cricket in their pyjamas has never appealed to me in the least, I'm told that such bizarre contemporary shifts as the Big Bash have been a boon.
In short, we can't turn down opportunities to make quantum leaps in a sport that is reportedly becoming more anachronistic and unappealing (to the potential workforce and customers) by the season. If they can be made to work financially, we have to find ways to embrace them, no matter how much persuading it takes.
When you move to a country village you get used to the reality that certain 'old ways' persist. There are shops that have moved with the times, but others, for example, that still close for lunch, take a half-day every Wednesday, certainly don't open on a Sunday and shut for random weeks throughout the summer.
It induces flashbacks to the dark ages, when, if you worked in an office and needed to pay a bill (not online, obviously), you would find that the places you needed to go to were all closed for lunch, to coincide neatly with your lunch break, which was the only free time you had.
It was a question of tail wagging dog; the wishes of a business and its employees being placed above the needs of the customer. Of course, if it hadn't made commercial sense, there would have been no point in adapting, but increased competition for business meant the world changed.
Racing increasingly finds itself in the same situation. Its work patterns have already adjusted to such alien concepts as Good Friday racing and now it faces another imposition in the shape of Sunday evenings – only six for the time being, but rest assured, if those six work, there will be more.
The demands on stable staff have understandably been put forward by colleagues this week as the main stumbling block, but my early quizzing of trainers suggested that if the money were there, the will to embrace the project would follow. If the new meetings engage the betting public sufficiently then surely it's not unfeasible that bonuses for staff will prove an irresistible carrot and extra prize-money will enable trainers to adjust staffing levels or rotas accordingly.
The bottom line is that we can't go on grumbling about parlous finances and then refuse to go along with schemes that threaten to improve the situation, no matter how many feathers they ruffle along the way.
Other sports have bitten the bullet, and although people playing cricket in their pyjamas has never appealed to me in the least, I'm told that such bizarre contemporary shifts as the Big Bash have been a boon.
In short, we can't turn down opportunities to make quantum leaps in a sport that is reportedly becoming more anachronistic and unappealing (to the potential workforce and customers) by the season. If they can be made to work financially, we have to find ways to embrace them, no matter how much persuading it takes.
When I think back to my Sunday days off in the past with no football and no racing it makes you laugh to hear all this nonsense about Sunday Evening racing. As for caring about working people I spent 36 years having to work Sunday shifts as did thousands of others and nobody worried about us. Just reminds me of The Lords Day Observance Society preaching to us back in those days.
There is zero parallel to one day cricket, as Sunday night racing is online better fodder, nothing else. One day cricket, T20 in particular has been a rip roaring success as it has mass audience appeal, both at the grounds and the tv audience. Lucrative for bookies too, but that's not why it is put on.
And yes relatively recent societal changes, good and bad, can almost all be traced back to the internet.
A lot of the arguments around this are misplaced I feel. It's not really about whether people should be working on Sunday evening, that can be mitigated for as it is already in many different industries. It's whether racing should be put on, purely for online betting fodder.
And yes relatively recent societal changes, good and bad, can almost all be traced back to the internet.
A lot of the arguments around this are misplaced I feel. It's not really about whether people should be working on Sunday evening, that can be mitigated for as it is already in many different industries. It's whether racing should be put on, purely for online betting fodder.
That is your opinion cider regarding "betting fodder". Many of us enjoy the lower grade racing as do the owners who spend a vast amount of money in racing keeping thousands employed in the industry. If people don't like it then don't worry yourselves about it and leave it alone.
it's not an opinion. that element of the trial has been triggered as the online betting companies claim it will be good for turnover. connections have essentially been bribed with significantly higher prize money for low grade horses, to ensure the races are filled.
Racing on a Sunday night makes more sense than this premiership nonsense. I don't know if it will attract more betting revenue but it's probably worth a try. The staffing issue is a red herring, there will always be poor employers but most trainers treat staff well.
So you have no opinion as to whether punters might be interested or not in the racing?
Once the novelty has passed, if it hasn't already. I don't see any additional appeal outside of floodlight racing that happens on any other day of the week.
So you don't think there are people interested in lower grade racing then, cider? Yes or No?
I am interested in lower grade racing. So the answer is obviously yes.
I'm stating here that debate on this should really be around whether racing wants to model what it does around online bookies only. There is no big bash cricket match scheduled to suit the bookies.
Staff working conditions is a red herring. Many people who worked for me over the years actually appreciated the flexibility that working unsociable hours (and earnings) provided.
I'm stating here that debate on this should really be around whether racing wants to model what it does around online bookies only. There is no big bash cricket match scheduled to suit the bookies.
Staff working conditions is a red herring. Many people who worked for me over the years actually appreciated the flexibility that working unsociable hours (and earnings) provided.
Interesting, Cider, that you think T20 cricket is not to suit the Indian betting market.
The betting is a side effect. Show me an ipl match played in front on an empty stadium (unaffected by covid restrictions)
fwiw I'm not claiming it's right or wrong, simply that's where the debate should be. Perhaps the 'sport' is happy putting on a product effectively behind closed doors if it means sustainability, and enhanced prize money via off course betting profits.
Yes, that's fair comment Cider. But it's a gargantuan side effect - hundreds of millions of pounds are traded on individual IPL matches on this site alone. That money is driving the sport, to a considerable extent.
Racing is part of the entertainment industry (despite they way some participants behave). If there is a public appetite for Sunday evening racing, and money to be made from it, it should happen. The issue is not that stable staff have to work Sunday nights - lots of people do jobs with unsocial hours, the problem arises if those staff then have to be at work early Monday morning. But that's something trainers will have to adapt to, like any other employer.
I am also in favour of much better quality Sunday afternoon (and bank holiday) racing in GB. There's no reason for so much of the better to be concentrated on Saturdays, and the Easter program (for example) is embarrassing (aside from the all weather finals day).
I am also in favour of much better quality Sunday afternoon (and bank holiday) racing in GB. There's no reason for so much of the better to be concentrated on Saturdays, and the Easter program (for example) is embarrassing (aside from the all weather finals day).
I agree that the staff working situation is a red herring cider and as a shift worker for most of my working life was quite happy to have different days off or work overtime for extra money.
I've been away from managing people for some time, but in my days it was unlawful not to leave a gap between scheduled shifts. ie you couldn't demand someone finished at midnight and started at 6am next day. outside of exceptions, eg security.
They only seem to interview jockeys and trainers never the staff,maybe I missed something,extra cash and a day off mid week…..get on with it…
Ordinarily you would still give people a 'weekend'. If working regularly Sunday then their working week would be Sun-Thu. Lots of people liked a regular weekday off.
In relation to racing, I imagine it's quite a nice day for the staff to work late. Still enjoy a lie in that morning, and little or no traffic.
In relation to racing, I imagine it's quite a nice day for the staff to work late. Still enjoy a lie in that morning, and little or no traffic.
I'd say the jocks were registering their disquiet by proxy. I don't see why they couldn't make the days restricted to jockeys who don't get loads of rides winners, like they do some days in Ireland.
The factories act still covers that I believe but in my case it was the road traffic act. These days some employers seem to be able to get around all the legislation by having their staff become "self employed" but that would not apply to stable staff.
Also agree that the jockeys case has little merit and some of them should remember the time when they struggled to get rides and make a living.
as sat/sun are racing/working days would i be right in assuming as opposed to other workplaces,they,d be like shops on a saturday and wouldnt be paying premimum/OT rates,
who puts up the 150 extra we read about courses or stables ?
who puts up the 150 extra we read about courses or stables ?
At the end of the day many of the staff employed are represented by the National Association of Racing Staff who are responsible for negotiating pay and conditions.
premiums for working weekends have been phased out in many examples. aside from if you work for the state, obviously!
small stables might need people to do it as OT.
i believe there was a stipulation that the staff got extra money, specific to the trial (ergo, more 'bribery'!)
small stables might need people to do it as OT.
i believe there was a stipulation that the staff got extra money, specific to the trial (ergo, more 'bribery'!)
correct cider but an old goat like me still cant get my head round [ and i wont do it ] working sat/sun/half **** etc for single time even if as in some cases that single time is paid at a good rate,
which is what happens with these rolling 4 day 12 hr weeks ,seems a great rate when your working mon to thurs, but seems like **** rate when following weeks your 4 days include sat and sun
which is what happens with these rolling 4 day 12 hr weeks ,seems a great rate when your working mon to thurs, but seems like **** rate when following weeks your 4 days include sat and sun
there are many factors 1st timer, obviously the country is not as religious/Cristian as it once was, and Sunday is no longer a day of rest as such. in my experience, when we opened the floodgates to the EU, millions came to the country and would accept lower working conditions for minimum wage, and unsociable hours. not intending to be political but it changed the game. they were still getting a much better deal than they would have done back home, and brought with them a culture of working hard.
People nowadays would blame the trade unions for insisting on extra pay for weekend and unsocial working hours.
Nearly all the full time people we took on at minimum wage did not have a British passport. Late 90's thru to 2013 was when I was heavily involved.
worked up scotland /nigg bay etc in 80,s when you wernt allowed to work on sundays, pubs etc didnt even open, digs wouldnt cook breckie etc,
worked on a new hospital on teesside few yrs back , and a new gaffer started who i new he said he,d got 2 hrs ot every day on job,i said i no its same rate i,m not working, he said yeh but we only hang about 10 /15 mins and get away ,i still said no and got bus home instead of waiting for van ,they were getting home before me
,
but i,d been fighting with the firms owner over rates for 20 yrs and i new he,d sent me there to jump on me when i worked over for single time, job lasted 8 weeks as well but i wasnt given him the pleasure/satisfaction,i,d have refused it even if therte a yr
worked on a new hospital on teesside few yrs back , and a new gaffer started who i new he said he,d got 2 hrs ot every day on job,i said i no its same rate i,m not working, he said yeh but we only hang about 10 /15 mins and get away ,i still said no and got bus home instead of waiting for van ,they were getting home before me
,but i,d been fighting with the firms owner over rates for 20 yrs and i new he,d sent me there to jump on me when i worked over for single time, job lasted 8 weeks as well but i wasnt given him the pleasure/satisfaction,i,d have refused it even if therte a yr
Wow, you mean staff might want some time off?
You woulda thunk it.
You woulda thunk it.
Gone a bit off topic here. I think it's a bit of a trial and I suppose in racing's current funding regime it's worth a go. If people want to watch racing and bet on a Sunday night, racing should be in the business to profit from that. It was good prize money for the lower grades and I'm sure plenty of owners/trainers would be happy to run for it.
If the idea is the higher prize money/quality of race improving turnover then stage these during the day when the majority of people/families are not preparing for the following week. Family life is more important than gambling.
If it's purely to stimulate some kind of betting turnover 24/7 then stage 'banded' races at night.
If it's purely to stimulate some kind of betting turnover 24/7 then stage 'banded' races at night.
If you want to watch racing on Sunday night, why should you be restricted to banded racing? I think the family argument is stretching it a bit swifty.
Sunday nights should be no different to any other night especially being a day when most people have the whole day off.
truehoncho, clearly the idea is not customers through the gate, it's for turnover . So if the argument is higher quality racing increasing turnover then improve the Sunday afternoon program which has hardly changed since it started.
You may be right Swifty, I don't know how many attended Wolves. I suppose they have a view that Sunday evening racing increases turnover more than better racing earlier in the day. It may or may not work out but as I have said its better than this premiership nonsense imo.
Kevo posted previously the BHA figures.
405 people turned up. They sold 150 tickets in advance so just 255 walk-ups attended.
dead duck. Betting turnover no higher than a midweek evening meeting.
Charlie Fellows mentioned mental health concerns.
Chelmsford next leg of experiment on 21st Jan. Liverpool v Bournemouth down the pub.
405 people turned up. They sold 150 tickets in advance so just 255 walk-ups attended.
dead duck. Betting turnover no higher than a midweek evening meeting.
Charlie Fellows mentioned mental health concerns.
Chelmsford next leg of experiment on 21st Jan. Liverpool v Bournemouth down the pub.
Charlie Fellows? Ok, isn't he the rich kid who bought Cumani's stables for £5m? I'm sure he can afford to not worry about the extra revenue to be earned on a Sunday. So betting turnover was as high as mid week, surely that means its worth pursuing for a while.
and I notice he won a race with one of Lady Bamford's Frankel geldings. He didn't seem to mind turning up for the extra prize money with a horse that was probably worth half a million quid. Hope is mental health hasn't suffered.
He may have called for a day off on Monday if they race on Sunday evening.
They'll persevere with it now until the final fixture at Southwell on 10th March and then do the number crunching.
For me, trying to attract a wider audience to the sport would be better served if these meetings were scheduled somehow into a summer programme when families are more likely to attend as opposed to a freezing cold sunday night when the kids are in school the following morning and folf are back at work.
Elsewise it's just an attempt to raise betting levels to enrich the levy.
They'll persevere with it now until the final fixture at Southwell on 10th March and then do the number crunching.
For me, trying to attract a wider audience to the sport would be better served if these meetings were scheduled somehow into a summer programme when families are more likely to attend as opposed to a freezing cold sunday night when the kids are in school the following morning and folf are back at work.
Elsewise it's just an attempt to raise betting levels to enrich the levy.
There were no hospitality or Restaraunt facilities last week.
Staffing issues? Not prepared to pay staff a premium?
Staffing issues? Not prepared to pay staff a premium?
BHA led by Julia Harrington quite hopeful that storm PIsha will force the abandonmant of the Chelmsford meeting tomorrow in order to bury the on-going embarrassment caused by this ill-timed experiment.
I heard Lydia Hislop saying she would definitely watch.
Prolly down his local watching the Cherries v liverpool game.
If the Lingers card goes ahead it will kill off the evening meeting.
Can't help thinking this idea would be better served during the warmer months if there are slots available.
trying to attract a wider audience and increase levy seeding appear at odds, if not mutually doomed.
If the Lingers card goes ahead it will kill off the evening meeting.
Can't help thinking this idea would be better served during the warmer months if there are slots available.
trying to attract a wider audience and increase levy seeding appear at odds, if not mutually doomed.
Pishing good money after bad.
70mph winds will keep the walk-ups to a minimum.
In the middle of January there's no call for this dross even if you have old fookers sat there in their armchairs [who barely leave their homes] clamouring for summat to bet on.
#sadtimes
70mph winds will keep the walk-ups to a minimum.
In the middle of January there's no call for this dross even if you have old fookers sat there in their armchairs [who barely leave their homes] clamouring for summat to bet on.
#sadtimes
Emergency services have been 24/7 since time began and they have family……
Can’t stand the heat ?
Can’t stand the heat ?
Spent the last 36 years of my life as a busworker on shift work.
There you go,but in the racing industry according to the gravy train they are so special and all lovely who should get special treatment….Bla bla
When I was sixteen I asked a gaffer what kind of work I would be doing……”anything that you are fkn told”
Ffs changed days
Ffs changed days
In the words of Bob Dylan "Things Have Changed"
Used to be Sing something simple on the Light Programme Sunday Evenings with the vibes from The Cliff Adams Singers warbling out of a big radio set.
My Mum and Dad loved it, we hated it.
At least there is a bit of choice on how to spend your time now.
Used to be Sing something simple on the Light Programme Sunday Evenings with the vibes from The Cliff Adams Singers warbling out of a big radio set.
My Mum and Dad loved it, we hated it.
At least there is a bit of choice on how to spend your time now.
Exactly, barstool. Sundays were awful years ago when having a day off and very little going on.
It’s understandable why the emergency services work 365 days a year, 24 hours a day.
I don’t see why horse racing has to do the same. Do we really need racing on all day, every day?
Rapidly going the way of greyhounds. And whilst I do enjoy betting on greyhound races, when you watch some of the races on the greyhound TV, it looks absolutely soulless. I almost feel guilty for betting on it, and helping to encourage the status quo. If racing is to be run, purely as a sport to bet on, which greyhounds now seems to be, then I don’t see how it survives in the current climate with all the various ‘anti’ groups all gunning for it one way or another.
I don’t see why horse racing has to do the same. Do we really need racing on all day, every day?
Rapidly going the way of greyhounds. And whilst I do enjoy betting on greyhound races, when you watch some of the races on the greyhound TV, it looks absolutely soulless. I almost feel guilty for betting on it, and helping to encourage the status quo. If racing is to be run, purely as a sport to bet on, which greyhounds now seems to be, then I don’t see how it survives in the current climate with all the various ‘anti’ groups all gunning for it one way or another.
It is not a question of whether we need it or not an argument which you could apply to almost any sport or entertainment. If it makes a profit and keeps people in employment then what is the problem?
What other sport is on all day, every day, except greyhound racing?
I think there is far too much racing. I think the fixture list should be culled not expanded. I dont think there should be racing on a Sunday evening in January, I don’t see why they should be out after 7pm on any January night. There is racing on all day, and if you’re that desperate to bet on a horse race at 9pm on a freezing cold winters evening, then you can bet on a US race.
I admit my views are probably in the minority, and the main view on here seems to be that the stable staff etc should stop moaning and consider themselves lucky, and if you don’t want to watch horse racing all day every day, then don’t.
I think there is far too much racing. I think the fixture list should be culled not expanded. I dont think there should be racing on a Sunday evening in January, I don’t see why they should be out after 7pm on any January night. There is racing on all day, and if you’re that desperate to bet on a horse race at 9pm on a freezing cold winters evening, then you can bet on a US race.
I admit my views are probably in the minority, and the main view on here seems to be that the stable staff etc should stop moaning and consider themselves lucky, and if you don’t want to watch horse racing all day every day, then don’t.
The problem is the majority of staff and people involved in the sport didn’t ask for it, and don’t want it. They are being bribed with prize money and their commitments to the job to make a success of it.
Out of interest Sparrow, is there any window during the week that you don’t think there should be any horse racing? Or do you think it should be like the greyhounds, on non stop from morning until night?
Out of interest Sparrow, is there any window during the week that you don’t think there should be any horse racing? Or do you think it should be like the greyhounds, on non stop from morning until night?
I could have understood such views in the past when we had to put up with the "Lords Day Observance Society" telling us what we should or should not do but not in this day and age.
As I have already said after 36 years of working different shifts as do many thousands of other working people I see no problems with stable staff doing the same.
As for Greyhound Racing it no longer has any interest for present generations and I speak as someone who has followed that sport since the 1950s. Go on the greyhound forum and see my views on the decline of that sport which I have posted about for many years now.
Greyhound racing can only be best appreciated on track. The atmosphere is electric each time just as the hare is coming round. On the other hand I found horseracing rather taxing eg galavanting from the parade ring to betting ring, hospitality, washroom, etc. Eventually queueing to get out from the car park into heavy local traffic for another 15 mins normally. But, satisfying if watching Dancing Brave, In The groove, Mtoto, Varcarme, etc.
Shift work is easy to rota if you have the staff to fill all the shifts.
I was under the impression there is a staffing crisis, particularly amongst the smaller yards that operate at this level. Why make that even harder by spreading the racing out over an even longer period of time. Sunday nights, especially in the winter, is a step too far, imo.
I was under the impression there is a staffing crisis, particularly amongst the smaller yards that operate at this level. Why make that even harder by spreading the racing out over an even longer period of time. Sunday nights, especially in the winter, is a step too far, imo.
I’m sure there used to be an electric atmosphere at greyhound tracks, it’s a very exciting sport.
But that’s not the case now, apart from the very big meetings the stadiums are empty. Its run purely for betting, and it’s soulless.
But that’s not the case now, apart from the very big meetings the stadiums are empty. Its run purely for betting, and it’s soulless.
Good letter in the Post today about a person re visiting a greyhound track since the hay days.
Stable staff have their union to represent them...https://www.naors.co.uk/
Personally I fully supported them in their dispute of 1975 and will continue to do so in defence of their working conditions.
Personally I fully supported them in their dispute of 1975 and will continue to do so in defence of their working conditions.
Greyhound Racing: I used to go very regularly to White City (3x a week), Wembley, Harringay and Wimbledon (esp Derby). Occasionally Brighton & Hove and Catford too. I was there when Ballyregaon Bob trounced Scurlogue Champ at Wembley when the latter never ran his race in a supposed "match" race. But, not been to any since the closure of Harringay.
impossible
I’m sure you once said on here that you have not been racing since Steve Cauthen was riding.
I’m sure you once said on here that you have not been racing since Steve Cauthen was riding.
impossible, never knew you were such a fan of the sport. My main tracks in the 60s were Clapton and Harringay before that in the 1950s I would watch my dad on occasions clerking on the track at Whte City but I moved North in the 70s and became a regular at the old Leeds track mostly. Such a terrible shame to see the state of the game nowadays with not one track in London when I can remember over twenty.
In my student days (probably why now I'm not doing as well as I should have) I was a regular at White City usually 3x a week even for the Graded races - it was my premier track. Then Wembley (Aitch Bee); Harringay (Yankee Express); Wimbledon (Haymaker Mac/Concentration) and Walthamstow (journey was a pain). I occasionally would go to Catford (Alpine Rocket) and Brighton & Hove too; never been to any upnorth only drove past Sunderland dog track after passing it very late one night on the way back down South.
I went to a few horseracing meetings esp Newmarket, Ascot, Kempton and Lingfield. Also a few evening ones at Windsor where my friend and driver nearly ran over Cauthen when he ran across the road to get to his car or chauffeur.
I went to a few horseracing meetings esp Newmarket, Ascot, Kempton and Lingfield. Also a few evening ones at Windsor where my friend and driver nearly ran over Cauthen when he ran across the road to get to his car or chauffeur.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539