Constitution Hill 1/10

Ask him for a photo of the bet Foyles, no offers does not exist!! nap

says the d!ckhead who doesnt have a penny in his betfair account.

Did rico admit that tigger? Must have missed that!!

Well done Foyles, under ten lengths.

bun money foyles

poor f4rty got nee funds again so seething.

thought he looked better than he did last year

aye he did look extra special but sew he shud when he's 2st better.

I genuinely don't see how to conclude anything from that race, other than the horse is still live and kicking. He is so vastly superior to the opposition today, he was bound to look superb.

For me the opposition is irrelevant to how this horse moves, jumps, presents at hurdles.  He is poetry in motion and a joy to watch.

Yes, he is.

Agree with LH. Such an enjoyable horse to watch. I really don't think it would matter who the opposition is. Even if the best 2 Mile Hurdlers from the past were around today it would still be the same result IMVHO

visually today was flawless..jumped superbly travelled superbly but wasnt tested.

And there was me thinking that the 2 miles and the 8 hurdles were indeed the test.  You don't win if you can't jump them.
A bit flippant maybe and I get your point but, when has this horse ever been fully "tested"?
He;s humbled champion hurdlers for fun without ever having felt a serious persuader from the jockey.
In this medium he is the nearest I have ever seen to a steering job.
The horse is awesome.

Such a shame though that he looked a little like he didn't want to go much further at Aintree thus frightening them off from pursuing a route that might have elevated him to a real horse of the ages.

from what we  have seen there is nothing that is going to test him this season .......and probably the next few  terms either.

It's only Henderson and Buckley that can test him... maybe a big handicap eg Betfair, or going to the Dublin Festival.... but more chance of another horse coming along very soon that's good enough ie. both extremely low.

Wrapped in cotton wool and all easy pickings until retirement,family pet….

Most other,especially Ireland,commodity and anything goes…..

Andriy How is the Dublin Festival going to test him hes already pulverised their best hurdler State Man.??

Beating him out of sight in his own backyard as opposed to Cheltenham; maybe doesn't add a lot to his CV, but better than the usual Fighting Fifth Kempton Cheltenham routine we're likely to see for the next couple of seasons. Something different, rather than usual risk averse schedule.

You cannot blame Henderson for doing what he is doing, we would all do the same. Especially with soooo much hype around.

I do however think handicaps are the best way to test a rating where a horse runs off his rating to see if it is accurate. For example the only opposition to CH appears to be State Man. State Man won the Irish Champion Hurdle beatings horse who hade never put their ratings to the test in handicaps so how accurate are they. State Man did win the County Hurdle off 141 before he aimed for the Champion Hurdle. Compare that to Rooster Booster who won his handicap, before the Champion Hurdle, off 155, carrying a stone more than State Man. RB was a good horse but not a great one. The facts are usually there but hype intervenes.

from connections point of view longevity is a key component, why put the horse into handicaps lumping big weights when you can mop up champion hurdles and easy pickings without having hard races .

The question is not whether her justifies the current rating, but could achieve a higher one, surely. He's such a push button horse, and they will want to prolong his career at the top, in the short term there seems no prospect of him being drilled to the line to achieve that. I suspect Hendo was bitten by what happened to SS after he went to Ireland, so that seems a remote prospect too.

I'm not blaming Henderson, unfortunately that's the way it is and how he's always campaigned them... would Nicholls do the same if he thought the horse was a specialist hurdler?... very probably. 
I'm just finding a lot of national hunt racing very boring, small fields, a few trainers having all the big guns .... it's great watching Constitution run, the way he jumped the last yesterday was fantastic to watch.... but at the moment the way the sport is, i need more and i'm not going to get it.

Unfortunately i doubt we are ever going to see him tested to see how good he really is. The nearest we will get is The Supreme win.Where he pulverised Jonbon who has only ever been beaten by 1 other horse El Fabiolo who has only ever been beaten by Jonbon.

Not at his peak, perhaps. Jumps horses are never retired at their peak barring injury. So at some point he will become vulnerable if he stays free of injury.

1.01 there will never be another Dessie…..

o'connor?

Hope you are showering Rico,not that dirty stale smell,so I heard anyway…..just saying

formoftheace
Date Joined: 17 Apr 12
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27 Dec 23 11:41Joined: 17 Apr 12 | Topic/replies: 11,537 | Blogger: formoftheace's blog
1.01 there will never be another Dessie….



How many champion hurdles did he win??

The one in Q is skipping over hurdles on the snaff ffs

Desert Orchid was the true stamp

Ffs

"why put the horse into handicaps lumping big weights when you can mop up champion hurdles and easy pickings without having hard races" .   They can do what they want but if he was mine it would bug me if the horse finished his career being rated ( official & timeform ) lower than Night Nurse.  It's entirely possible this horse could achieve a rating at least 10lbs superior. But it would almost certainly be achieved in a handicap. Yet he may not have a hard race. Nearly everything would be out of the handicap. So would likely only have one or two horses near him at the last or before.

agree with what you say howard but connections wont worry about what punters would like to see.

Maybe they should ask David Elsworth……

Mind you the horse could fall apart in a scrap

Desert Orchid hasn't been around for 30 years and yet he will still be being talked about long after CH will be. If I owned CH and realizing the horse I had I would want to be campaigning him in a way that elevates him to real greatness allowing him to be talked about and revered for years to come, it would be such a waste not to.

Depends who is doing the talking duffy. What we do know is Desert Orchid didn't win a champion hurdle and won one very poor ( on form ) Gold Cup. Very good horse of course.

Agree

Winning multiple Champion Hurdles isn't any guarantee for greatness, don't hear anyone ever talk about See You Then.

Horses campaigned like a Night Nurse, Wayward Lad, Kauto Star and Denman get more mentions and live long in the memory.

Winning the Christmas Hurdle against some grade 2 horses and at least one past it's sell by date is very forgettable imo

Once in a life time horse, surely they should be challenging him and seeing how good he actually is.

Another agree,sensible

All great nostalgic stuff but does not recongise that jumps racing is now dominated by rich owners. And all they are in the game for is to get Cheltenham winners.

They don't want him to have a hard race. You can understand that. But as I say there is a big chance that a valuable handicap could be won easily certainly on decent ground.

Yep 2 hundred large at the sales and an £800 job wins the KG…..superb imo

All they seem to spout about is the ground…..Elsworth never did the status thing…..animals love to play …

The money doesn't guarantee success obviously. But you would not have had Cheveley Park involved in DO's era. The prestige of cheltenham supersedes prize money, or anything else, by a wide margin. From the connections perspective, why risk anything else when you have a virtual lock for one of the championship races there every season.

So the rich owners are just in the game in order to beat the other rich owners at Cheltenham ?  Well I suppose the top English trainers want Cheltenham winners so will hardly complain about it.

To be remembered as a great or household name outside the racing fraternity you need to do something out of the ordinary , Red Rum's Grand National record , Desert Orchid lucky to be a really good horse and a front running grey and of course Arkle who not only won all the special races but conceded lumps in top races as well.

Chill won't be remembered in that category winning what he is and beating the same horses in the same conditions , not his fault but fact.

Just maybe though Buckley doesn't care about all that and is content in the fact Chill probably will be remembered as a great within the racing fraternity and being the best at what the horse is best at is all that really matters.

If that's the view and you just want to invite the opposition to take you on without looking for potential obstacles that may not need to exist , like Frankel maybe , then that's fine as well.


Good luck all 

The list is endless Hayden…..imv

For the vast majority at the top end of jumps, howard. State Man is the best hurdler in Ireland and sat out a season so he could win a handicap there.

The racing punter awaits,but with this lot it could be a while

Hurdle this year then chase it…bring the game alive for a change…

Buckley has talked about Gold Cup's ( Cheltenham & Ascot ) and  seems a bit of a drama queen type to me.  Because up to now it looks like he's doing exactly what the trainer wants.

might be gambling involved in that one cider. Bit like forgive n'forget

They knew he had a stone plus in hand. So it was heavily backed. But the objective was to win a Cheltenham handicap as he had lost his novice status. Gaelic Warrior was another they did the same thing with. But obviously found out that he leans to the right somewhat and still somehow conspired to get beat!

Hewick being a cheap horse and more modest ownership means is more from the DO ilk. Something we'll never know, but would be interesting to see how his career turned out if he ended up at Hendo or Mullins.

Some absolute guff on here as always to be expected, Constitution is running in this era not the past so comparisons about campaign arrangements are pointless as are slagging the owner or trainer. It is the way of the world as it stands in NH racing and they should be applauded for looking after the horse rather than looking for obstacles simply to appease punters or BF forum experts.

How do any of you know the plans for the future they may have? Will it be 4 Champion Hurdles or maybe a Champion Chase followed by a couple of KGs and maybe a GC or two, maybe even an Ascot Gold Cup or two?

Imo the owner and trainer have enough nous to know that the horse is only really starting a possible legendary career certainly more than most on here e.g Quixall re- Desert Orchid, Elsie had not a clue how good he was when he got him, See You Then who would not have won one CH if left to the experts on here.

And btw Quixall got more headlines outside of racing papers than any of the greats mentioned on here, go figure!!!?

Cagliari,what a load off urine you are spouting,it’s obvious it’s going to win the lot on the steel ffs

Bring it on and and let the horse enjoy and entertain the fodder,trainer & owner are bowing to the media imv

Ffs…..

They also did not know the potential ffs….win the obvious for the next two seasons then chase it…..I think it can jump ! Ffs

It's simple. Just run the f'kn horse. I cannot see the point in being an owner otherwise. You do not buy a horse to keep it in its box.

Look back through the years and come back when the bridle horse matches up

monarch 27 Dec 23 17:21 
It's simple. Just run the f'kn horse. I cannot see the point in being an owner otherwise. You do not buy a horse to keep it in its box.

Exactly !

Showing your true colours Quixall. clueless like your Dessie comments and AOAWetc!!!

Zzzzzz pish

Because you know have no reasoning for an adult debate?

Huh ffs

Debating whether the best horse in the land should take on both codes of NH during its career….

And what would Einstein of the forum do ?

The only way CH gets beaten as things stand is if you tip him Quixall  he is probably good enough to defeat your incompetence!!

Dessie took on chasing because he was average as an hurdler and was going nowhere as a potential champion in that sphere.

Lol typical ffs

I asked you what you do if you owned the horse…..and you were sincere regarding the game…..entertaining the fodder and prestige…..

What is the aim for most owners in the NH game ?

Answer on a postcard ffs

Have you ever owned a racehorse Quixall?

fred been sabbatarged by F4rty the failed punter and tobymugs who cant tip a winner in the comps league but still claiming +862 lsp and a 123kg ficticious tuna.. WAPOC's.

Between L'escargot and Best Mate no horse managed to retain the Cheltenham Gold Cup.
The argument was made, that with Hen Knight avoiding handicaps like the plague, fewer runs per season and only in conditions races; this was the way forward if you wanted to keep your Grade 1 horse at the top level.

It must be said that the worm has well and truly turned.
The number of graded opportunities for top level horses at all levels, from 2m chasing to 3m Hurdles means that any half decent horse can skate through a season virtually unopposed until they meet their destiny at Chelters mid march.

This has led to all manner of champions in these divisions being lauded.
Sometimes quite ludicrously.
I remember Tom Segal once claiming that Altior must be the greatest 2m chaser of all time. As big an example of recency bias as ever I have seen. Shame on him.

Fact is that the only division in NH racing that really produces competitive racing these days is Staying Chasers.
Constitution Hill can win all the Champion Hurdles he wants but there is simply not the strength in depth in that division that existed in the 70s with the likes of Sea Pigeon etc.
Constitution Hill is racing's Glasgow Celtic.

The truly great 2m chasers like Flyingbolt, Dessie, Kauto graduated out of that discipline to achieve greatness.
Until Henderson is prepared to do that with his charge he can never be compared with the greats of the sport.
Sorry.

Any chance of a photo of the bet Rico, only takes minutes according to you? Point out the lsp claim and where I would need a Newspaper to claim a small tuna with a random weight or indeed where I claimed "I" landed such a fish?

Look forward to the photo but apologise for keeping a dead thread alive!! HTH

Btw only just realised it was with 365 so really easy Rico, well done btw being Rico 365 posting on Christmas Day, did Les Gray keep you company again?

bets only available for 24hrs it says.  soz.

Another PORKIE from the Forums saddest loser but never mind Rico just post up the LSP claim and the tuna?

Like I say the list is endless……match it owner & trainer if you have the bottle….

Watching it win hard held with the overated on board for the next three seasons will be like reading the Wallsend b@llsacks 1.01 posts…..probably around a million ffs

Rico,did you lift a hand to the opposite sex ?

Your grandad should have warned the First Officer about the iceberg Quixall instead of looking for the Band On Ship?

Spurious comment Quixall, both is the answer allegedly!!

Tongue in cheek that was….

You bang on about an answer Cagliari,but you won’t answer my question ,what would you do with the bridle horse

I would do whatever I felt Quixall which would not include doing things for the sake of punters who like it or not are way down the ladder in terms of owning a horse regardless of quality or perceived class. HTH

It really is hard to believe some of the utter tripe being posted on here about this horse.
He is already one of the all-time greats of the sport.
And with so much more to give us.

Holy Christ what a statement…..an all time great….ffs

Some of us prefer hurdling to chasing. And he's nearly the all-time top rated without being pushed in nearly all races.   "I would do whatever I felt Quixall which would not include doing things for the sake of punters who like it or not are way down the ladder"...

Racing /Racecourses are in big trouble. Mainly due to little point in going racing regards betting with online/smartphones/exchanges that were not around yesteryear. One thing that might help is if owners ran the stars and found out how good they are. It doesn't bring in the crowds or betting on it at 1/12.

F4rtfromtheface is an all time great...

an absolute LEG END.

#WAC

It would be easier to argue he is an all time great if he beat another great or two. It's not his fault that there are no such other horses around at the moment, but it will always raise a doubt.

Great is an overused word in sport, but the true greats have generally had a great rival or two (Arkle/Mill House, the great hurdlers of the late 70s). Ratings are always somewhat subjective compared with beating another monster on the track.

might not apply to jumping so much but a horse that runs 5f at York in 48 secs is an all-time great. What ran doesn't matter. Timefigures will tell you. I don't think Secretariat ( who smashed the clock a few times )  beat anything "great". So he's not an all time great ?

Istabraq didn't run in a great era either. But most people ( and ratings ) put him above See You Then and up there with the late 70's horses.

Fair points Howard. The clock is an important measure, as the example of Secretariat proves. But I think in part that's because (some of) his track records still stand - if CH still holds the 2 m hurdle track record at Cheltenham in 2070, he'd unquestionably be an all time great, but, presently, that "if" is doing a lot of lifting.

Strontium , thing is I always look at things from a betting point of view. If a horse has beaten nowt in a modest overall time ( and impressed me ) that's good news. I'm sure Secretariat didn't need the overall times  but admit it was handy. But just the visuals & the 31 lengths & the sectionals would have been enough. CH has already done plenty on the clock especially "v Honeysuckle"

Yes, CH passes the "eye test" for sure. I put his Supreme up there with Frankel's Guineas, Kauto Star's 2009 King George, and Faugheen's Irish Champion Hurdle as the modern performances that have blown me away. I still find Secretariat's Belmont jaw-dropping.

One thing is for certain is GDC is a better horse than CH

Beating better horses, no arguments

making a comparison between a 2m hurdler and a 3m chaser?

Talking about ratings and NH racing,

Didn't mention distances

Read next time

WAFDC

Talking about ratings and NH racing,

Didn't mention distances

Read next time

WAFDC

Wait three of four seasons then decide…..in the meantime keep punting the 1/12 (ish) ffs

One thing it keeps the gravy train busy,drooling over the trainer…..Chapman pretending everyone in racing is impressed

In boxing they call it Pound for pound ratings

WAC