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I don't see why a horse should need a Long Tom whip to make it start. Far worse than using a whip in running (and I know they don't hit them at the start) Jumping off is part of a race just as running in a straight line and jumping are and if a horse won't start without being frightened into it then it should be retired.
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It's never a good thing not starting but imo it's a bit early to be talking about retiring him and who knows if he would have started if they had still been using the long Tom whip, some have, some haven't.
I'm sure they will see how he is at home, going out to the gallops etc but he surely deserves another chance if all is okay physically, to redeem his reputation |
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Yes give him another chance but the cheekpieces were hardly encouraging before the starting issue so he would never carry my money.
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When commontatties and pundits start using the word 'recalcitrant' about the older members of the racing herd it's time to be very wary.
This un could be increasingly tagged with the adjective if its had enough of the game. Coupla spins over hurdles looming, and then retirement. |
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So long as they don't listen to Mick Fitz who wants to bring back the Long tom. No rule should be changed to suit one trainer or horse however hard they lean on the BHA.
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The Horse has gone from hero to zero shame really.
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From todays RP Frontrunner who sounds like the pocket is talking:
Under racing's rules, if a horse has come under the starter's orders then they are deemed to be a runner. However, given Shishkin had shown an indication he was not in the mood to race, should it not have been the case that discretion could be given to rule him out? Ryley is not so sure, and says: "Shishkin showed an indication that he might not be in a mood to race but that was all it was. To be fair to the starter, I have seen many examples over the years of horses who have shown an indication not to start, or who have had a reputation for not starting, who have jumped off fine. "So I don’t think it would be right to say a horse is a non-runner if he doesn’t jump off having shown signs. I think there should be a flat rule that says if a horse doesn’t start then they are a non-runner." Thing is the horse also gave 'an indication' it was going to race i.e. it arrived at the start. Prehaps de Boinville should have told the starter his horse was 'showing signs of incalcitrance' and he was taking him out of the race. Feckers will be wanting their cash back now that Bouuurbali has pumped the 1/7 First Street. Nicky knew.  |
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Yes, pocket talking.
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The Long Tom doesn't touch them -but they think it will so they get running.
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Don't see there is a debate really , not the first to become unruly at the start and certainly won't be the last.
As for retiring that's for owners to decide unless the hierarchy decide it needs to pass some starting test or something , certainly shouldn't be influenced by moaning punters who start looking for a bet refund as recompense for their own supposedly informed bet decision. Calling for retirement seems harsh to me so send it out into the fields for a long rest , sweeten him up and bring him back for some Hunter chasing then resurrect this thread when he wins the Foxhunters in a couple of years time. Good luck today all  |
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oops 'REcalcitrance' not IN -just like Nicky's First Street
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Does it again next time,think they will retire him.
Won a fair few quid in prize money.Owes nobody. |
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I would have been furious if Shishkin had been declared a non runner. Pic Dory would have been a 1/3 shot and I backed him at 3.8 mainly because Shishkin wore cheekpieces which told me that Nicky was expecting something like that to happen. Why should Pic Dory backers be robbed because of an ungenuine horse? No different to unseating out of stalls as Chaldean did at Newbury or falling at the first. The start is part of the race once the flag is up.
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Entered Newcastle Saturday
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Has never been the same since Ascot nearly 2 years ago. Appears soured. Should be retired NOW.
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No. let him do it once more and we can all lump on the next best in the race on ratings
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" Prehaps de Boinville should have told the starter his horse was 'showing signs of incalcitrance' and he was taking him out of the race."
And if you were the owner, how would you feel about your paid jockey deciding the horse you had paid an entry for probably wasn't in the mood and you could write off your entry fee and the chance of prize money? |
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when did stop using the long tom.......
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Not sure of the exact date but it was a BHA ruling apparently.
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I was the only spectator at the start of Call Equiname's Champion Chase in 1999 - I wanted to see if Or Royal jumped off - it did with the aid of the Long Tom !
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last week
https://www.britishhorseracing.com/press_releases/changes-to-start-rules-and-procedures/ |
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They just need Nigel Twiston Davies and his belt.
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I cant believe they have banned the long tom that was essential to get the thinkers to jump off.Get it back asap ffs.
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Presumably they've banned it because it looks awful to the public.
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Horses are 'flight' animals,the crack of the the whip would have been sufficient to start him.
Whether he now wants racing is mute,see if he lines up at Newcastle on Saturday.. |
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Shame, he actually moved forward as if to race but the starter deemed them to far away from the tape.
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Presumably they've banned it because it looks awful to the public.
..... Spot on, how farcical it has all become. |
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Absolutely essential it has to come back if it is banned...Put some pink ribbons and and a couple of fairy lights to make it priddy but it has to come back ffs.
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If they even see it its enough to make the vast majority of Horses start....Trust me i worked in Racing for over 30 Years i know what i am talking about.
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So a horse that pulls itself up after 100 yards? Long toms at the ready every furlong? I am not in principle opposed to bringing it back if enough trainers/jockeys want it but NOT because N. Henderson makes a fuss after one horse misbehaves. Some of the other stuff in that link are total nonsense. A training module for trainers and staff about how to behave at the start. Give me strength. On the other hand I am pleased to see that the correct order of going into the stalls will be tightened by refusing the option of going in late in most cases which is widely abused. It makes me angry to see favourites routinely hanging back to be loaded late.
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So a horse that pulls itself up after 100 yards? Long toms at the ready every furlong?...Ffs
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If it really has come to banning the Long Tom i would be afraid very afraid for the future of the game.
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And i would quite happily see whips only used for correctional purposes.
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A friend of mine is a starter........starts want be the dame without the crack of the Long Tom..........
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If a horse refuses to start/race 2x in a row it must not be allowed to run ever again unless using the gates. But, Shishkin is too long in the tooth to be educated. I think the horse is getting progressively disinterested in the game; he needed to be kidded along and cajoled over 2m since Cheltenham 2022.
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who is this long tom? sounds like a porn star !
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I suspect it has a military origin Foyles, slang used by RA for long range gun and possibly adopted by RHA to refer to whips used to encourage the horses drawing the artillery.
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Could it be a whip used in the animal circus to make a lion do what the user's would like it to do? Maybe initiate a rolling-start like they do for trotting just for Shishkin and (Hendo).
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What price was Kauto Star when he won his 3rd Gold Cup impossible?
tia |
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I mean what next ffs i suggest banning Sheep Dogs for worrying the poor Sheep.
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