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... certain to be applied in shops' despite Gambling Commission assurances
https://www.racingpost.com/news/gambling-review/bookmakers-say-affordability-checks-almost-certain-to-be-applied-in-shops-despite-gambling-commission-assurances-aii660q0MYSS/
Bookmakers have warned that affordability checks on customers will inevitably extend into betting shops due to pressure from the Gambling Commission, with one operator describing the situation as “a complete mess”.
Leading figures at two independent bookmakers expressed scepticism and uncertainty about recent assurances from Gambling Commission chief executive Andrew Rhodes that affordability checks would only be carried out on those betting online and would not take place in high street bookmakers or at racecourses.
These concerns from bookmakers have added to the sense of confusion and anxiety about the commission's ongoing consultation into the government’s gambling review white paper. Punters have publicly doubted the ability of bookmakers to conduct frictionless affordability checks, while some racehorse owners are cutting back on their investment due to the potential damage to the sport’s finances and the hostile environment for betting on their horses.
Howard Chisholm, managing director of Chisholm Bookmakers, said affordability checks would extend beyond being online and would potentially exacerbate the movement of people from the regulated market to the unregulated black market.
“The problem with affordability checks is that while they start online they will almost certainly be applied in shops,” he said. “This is going to be done without any guidance and it’s going to be a complete mess.
“The staff in our shops know the regular customers, but we can’t do these checks in the background like they do online without the customer knowing. Will we have to stand them up in front of the counter and ask, ‘What’s your date of birth, where do you live, what’s your passport number?’.
“If you’re asking a customer online for this information and they don’t want to give it then they’ll go to a retail shop and if they then face these checks, which they will have to face, then eventually they will go to the black market. You can't stop this, you just move it on.”
Social responsibility and anti-money laundering checks already take place in betting shops. Greg Knight, managing director of Jenningsbet, said retail customers tended to bet at lower levels, which might lead to them taking longer to reach any affordability thresholds.
He said: “Retail is a different beast. It’s a different customer to begin with as the average stake for retail nationwide is £12-13.”
However, punters are growing increasingly concerned about the impact of the checks, according to Knight, who added: “It’s the main talking point of our customers and within the industry as it impacts anyone who is interested in betting or sport. There’s a huge groundswell of opinion that it’s not the government’s business.
“It’s a slippery slope and I don’t how this doesn’t seep into other parts of people’s lives. The government is quick to try and alleviate fears, but you have got to let people be adults.”
In a letter to the Racing Post, Rhodes claimed three per cent of all betting accounts would be subject to enhanced affordability checks, of which around 90 per cent would be carried out through credit reference agencies and open-source banking via a regulated third-party provider.
He said: "These checks will not give gambling companies access to customers’ full bank account data, and any information operators receive must only ever be used for assessing risks of harm, rather than practices like identifying and restricting winners."
Rhodes claimed the proposals related to online gambling only, adding: “They would not apply to betting in bookmakers or at the racetrack. High street bookmakers may decide to carry out checks based on social responsibility or anti-money laundering risks but these changes being consulted on apply only to online gambling."
He also remarked on "an assumption that credit checks impact a credit rating and could damage credit scores", claiming these soft credit checks will not do so.
"Credit scores will be unaffected," he added, "and data on a customer’s gambling behaviour will not be shared with the financial sector under these proposals."
Rhodes also claimed that most bettors would not undergo checks under the proposals. He repeated a recent pledge that the government and the commission would not mandate bookmakers to implement checks at levels such as those proposed in the consultation "until we were sure that they can be delivered frictionlessly for the vast majority of customers who would be checked".
https://www.racingpost.com/news/gambling-review/bookmakers-say-affordability-checks-almost-certain-to-be-applied-in-shops-despite-gambling-commission-assurances-aii660q0MYSS/
Bookmakers have warned that affordability checks on customers will inevitably extend into betting shops due to pressure from the Gambling Commission, with one operator describing the situation as “a complete mess”.
Leading figures at two independent bookmakers expressed scepticism and uncertainty about recent assurances from Gambling Commission chief executive Andrew Rhodes that affordability checks would only be carried out on those betting online and would not take place in high street bookmakers or at racecourses.
These concerns from bookmakers have added to the sense of confusion and anxiety about the commission's ongoing consultation into the government’s gambling review white paper. Punters have publicly doubted the ability of bookmakers to conduct frictionless affordability checks, while some racehorse owners are cutting back on their investment due to the potential damage to the sport’s finances and the hostile environment for betting on their horses.
Howard Chisholm, managing director of Chisholm Bookmakers, said affordability checks would extend beyond being online and would potentially exacerbate the movement of people from the regulated market to the unregulated black market.
“The problem with affordability checks is that while they start online they will almost certainly be applied in shops,” he said. “This is going to be done without any guidance and it’s going to be a complete mess.
“The staff in our shops know the regular customers, but we can’t do these checks in the background like they do online without the customer knowing. Will we have to stand them up in front of the counter and ask, ‘What’s your date of birth, where do you live, what’s your passport number?’.
“If you’re asking a customer online for this information and they don’t want to give it then they’ll go to a retail shop and if they then face these checks, which they will have to face, then eventually they will go to the black market. You can't stop this, you just move it on.”
Social responsibility and anti-money laundering checks already take place in betting shops. Greg Knight, managing director of Jenningsbet, said retail customers tended to bet at lower levels, which might lead to them taking longer to reach any affordability thresholds.
He said: “Retail is a different beast. It’s a different customer to begin with as the average stake for retail nationwide is £12-13.”
However, punters are growing increasingly concerned about the impact of the checks, according to Knight, who added: “It’s the main talking point of our customers and within the industry as it impacts anyone who is interested in betting or sport. There’s a huge groundswell of opinion that it’s not the government’s business.
“It’s a slippery slope and I don’t how this doesn’t seep into other parts of people’s lives. The government is quick to try and alleviate fears, but you have got to let people be adults.”
In a letter to the Racing Post, Rhodes claimed three per cent of all betting accounts would be subject to enhanced affordability checks, of which around 90 per cent would be carried out through credit reference agencies and open-source banking via a regulated third-party provider.
He said: "These checks will not give gambling companies access to customers’ full bank account data, and any information operators receive must only ever be used for assessing risks of harm, rather than practices like identifying and restricting winners."
Rhodes claimed the proposals related to online gambling only, adding: “They would not apply to betting in bookmakers or at the racetrack. High street bookmakers may decide to carry out checks based on social responsibility or anti-money laundering risks but these changes being consulted on apply only to online gambling."
He also remarked on "an assumption that credit checks impact a credit rating and could damage credit scores", claiming these soft credit checks will not do so.
"Credit scores will be unaffected," he added, "and data on a customer’s gambling behaviour will not be shared with the financial sector under these proposals."
Rhodes also claimed that most bettors would not undergo checks under the proposals. He repeated a recent pledge that the government and the commission would not mandate bookmakers to implement checks at levels such as those proposed in the consultation "until we were sure that they can be delivered frictionlessly for the vast majority of customers who would be checked".
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Will Rhodes be joining Spewtin and wee Kim J for tea….ffs
as betting shops are empty,pubs are emply,workies clubs are empty where do bookies/people think these blackmarket bookies will operate from, COSTA ?
who the fook would trust a blackmarket bookie these days,they havnt trusted licence bookmakers for 25yrs
who the fook would trust a blackmarket bookie these days,they havnt trusted licence bookmakers for 25yrs
I'd not lose a night's sleep if the demise of bookies here or ply their trade online materialises because of AC; chickens coming back to roost.
Tbh I'd rather have a similar system to France/Hong Kong/Australia or the USA to the present bookies (turf accountants) here, why? These scumbags call themselves bookies but they are NOT; they are charlatans with a licence to fleece punters or refuse to take bets.
Good riddance, if so, I'll say. I hope The Racing Post goes down the swanny too. The sooner the better!
Tbh I'd rather have a similar system to France/Hong Kong/Australia or the USA to the present bookies (turf accountants) here, why? These scumbags call themselves bookies but they are NOT; they are charlatans with a licence to fleece punters or refuse to take bets.
Good riddance, if so, I'll say. I hope The Racing Post goes down the swanny too. The sooner the better!
You can just imagine the scene going in for the Hunt cup you want £200 on at 10/1 price shortening savvy customer scuze me sir we cannot accept that without your P60 and twenty years bank statements and details of your expenditure no prior warning so basically **** off next please. Plank behind the counter shouts out no bets except mugs and FOBT players taken queue goes on for ever. high street bookmaker says fearful being fined they say. we know real reason don't we. This whole thing is pissing everybody off. I've recently like many others I suspect become totally cheesed off with anything to do with racing this and the other shenanigans and don't get me on this mickey mouse league WALOFS. Where is the BHA and our leaders anybody know? Switch off the lights.
Bookie shop is now a charity shop,racecourses will also suffer as punters will walk with a sour taste feeling bitter towards the lot involved who sat on their @rse…
Bookies trying to rally punters to fight their corner
What delicious irony,
MPs need bigger bribes, ffs
What delicious irony,
MPs need bigger bribes, ffs
must also be applied to on-course bookmakers as well. or it makes zero sense. you can't have a penny online, or in a shop, but if you go along to the races you can blow 40 grand, that you can't afford.
so that's a lot of on-course bookies looking for a new career.
so that's a lot of on-course bookies looking for a new career.
Just separate fobt and sports betting eg horseracing. A different licence each.
AC must include on-course bookies otherwise a court case is imminent. I think on-course is where the biggest and more likely abuse of money laundering will occur.
.. "Average stake for retail nationwide is £12-13."
Is that really the case?
On my occasional visits to the shops in South London I don't see it being that high.
Is that really the case?
On my occasional visits to the shops in South London I don't see it being that high.
you all forget it is the bookmakers that own the exchanges.
NOT to mention the paddybots,joebots.billybots.crookbots,and all the other bots
all forms of gambling shouldn't be lumped together.
the bookies created a monster when they were allowed to introduce fobts. if you wish to play them, in any form, you should be subjected to an affordability check as the propensity to become heavily addicted to them is on a completely different level to someone having a few recreational bets on the horses or the football.
the bookies created a monster when they were allowed to introduce fobts. if you wish to play them, in any form, you should be subjected to an affordability check as the propensity to become heavily addicted to them is on a completely different level to someone having a few recreational bets on the horses or the football.
"but fear not my friends the AI Babe Ruth robot is on his way!!!!!!
Ten bets taken across the counter Nine of them are 5p EW Lucky 15s, the tenth is £100 on the next favourite. Hey presto, the average stake is £11.35.
A;ways be wary of any statistic which quotes the average. Average temperature, average wages, average anything.
A;ways be wary of any statistic which quotes the average. Average temperature, average wages, average anything.
I firmly believe a radical restructuring of horseracing and betting is absolutely necessary to reflect the digital age. A differentiation between sports betting and gaming betting is long overdue.
The might of the bookies is too pronounced and damaging to be ignored. Otherwise another 2 decades of abuses will be repeated by the bookies on recreational punters, and the vulnerables eg problem gamblers and fobt addicts.
The might of the bookies is too pronounced and damaging to be ignored. Otherwise another 2 decades of abuses will be repeated by the bookies on recreational punters, and the vulnerables eg problem gamblers and fobt addicts.
Are casinos subject to AC? If so, using the same algorithm?
Slipyblue.
12/13 is way off Sfbtw is spot on.
Hope you are both well.
Ronnie.
12/13 is way off Sfbtw is spot on.
Hope you are both well.
Ronnie.
when the bookies introduced fobt's nobody had the foresight or knowledge to say yes you can bring these things in, but they are incredibly addictive - the machines are carefully designed from their shape, colour, flashing lights and sounds to encourage play and the rapid play furthers more stimulation of the brain. The player starts to lose awareness of their surroundings and they become more immersed in the machine itself.
so if anyone wants to play them you better make sure they can afford it.
oh, and by the way you don't need to make sure people can afford to bet on horses, especially as you've limited most of them to buttons anyway.
so if anyone wants to play them you better make sure they can afford it.
oh, and by the way you don't need to make sure people can afford to bet on horses, especially as you've limited most of them to buttons anyway.
Fobts followed the tech they had tested on fruit machines.
They knew how addictive they would be, the public
did not.
They knew how addictive they would be, the public
did not.
Advertising tobacco is banned
And for good reason,.. Then... Vapes take their place on display
What happens... Kids start vaping.
Can these kids afford to vape?
Can dad afford 40 cigarettes a day
They don't care, do they,... But punters...
And for good reason,.. Then... Vapes take their place on display
What happens... Kids start vaping.
Can these kids afford to vape?
Can dad afford 40 cigarettes a day
They don't care, do they,... But punters...
people who rubber stamped their introduction didn't know. or did know and turned a blind eye amidst a plethora of br0wn envelopes and days out at the belfry.
can't have £10 on a horse in a bookie but can walk into the newsagent next door and buy a grands worth of scratchcards.
is this definitely not an april fools ??
is this definitely not an april fools ??
Is this just going to apply to Uk domiciled bookies?
And if so, can't they just move headquarters and continue on bypassing the UK rules?
Presumably a foreign whale of a punter will still be allowed to bet millions with no questions asked
And if so, can't they just move headquarters and continue on bypassing the UK rules?
Presumably a foreign whale of a punter will still be allowed to bet millions with no questions asked
98% of shop punters are just betting addicts..
no idea what value is..no idea what a bha OR is..no idea what overounds are..form of 1111 is more attractive than 0000...fools and money easily parted..if last bet of night was a coin toss at 4/5 each they would all be involved.
no idea what value is..no idea what a bha OR is..no idea what overounds are..form of 1111 is more attractive than 0000...fools and money easily parted..if last bet of night was a coin toss at 4/5 each they would all be involved.
I just bought some wine
Spent quite a bit as it was cheap
and my bank offered me 20% cashback.
No affordability check but obviously
bank is regulating what folk can spend.
I still can't see why bank card deposits
need a further affordability check.
Spent quite a bit as it was cheap
and my bank offered me 20% cashback.
No affordability check but obviously
bank is regulating what folk can spend.
I still can't see why bank card deposits
need a further affordability check.
been in a shop lately Rico ?
98% of shop punters are just there to get a free coffee and a heat
98% of shop punters are just there to get a free coffee and a heat
last time i was in a shop i left with the safe..gus carters in west chirton.
98.00001% of shop punters are just there to get a free coffee, a heat and to rob the safe
The free coffee is to entice potential customers into the shop hoping they'll spend money whilst there. It's the shop's equivalent of a bookie's free spin/bet promotion. But, unlike a free spin/bet it does not have the same degree of addiction or instant financial gratification/reward which is a strong stimulant for a repeat play regards fobt.
honourable mentions to charging their phones and having a sh!t ....
... and trying to work out if they can make a profit long-term backing 8.4 shots at 5/1
... and trying to work out if they can make a profit long-term backing 8.4 shots at 5/1
Without the crack slot machines there would be 75% less shops on the high street.
The minimum bet on BJ at many LV casinos (Ceasars who own WH for example) is $25. That's $1,500 an hour MINIMUM.
The max unrestricted bet on athletics at 5/1 with WH (Ceasars) is £40.
30 years ago the minimum bet at BJ was $1 and you could get £400 on a 5/1 shot in athletics
That's a h2h swing of 250,000%
The max unrestricted bet on athletics at 5/1 with WH (Ceasars) is £40.
30 years ago the minimum bet at BJ was $1 and you could get £400 on a 5/1 shot in athletics
That's a h2h swing of 250,000%
They should offer large-chested female cashiers, Hooters is packed every day and they are not there for the grub.
DG.
Many years ago when I worked in Bishop Auckland I worked with 3 girls 2 were gorgeous and the other one was even better.
Many years ago when I worked in Bishop Auckland I worked with 3 girls 2 were gorgeous and the other one was even better.
All nonsense yet again. Everyone blaming all that's wrong with racing on affordability checks. Why don't the bookies tell us why the shops were empty before these checks were even an idea?
You could buy a street in Bishop Auckland for the cost of a single house in London
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/133702001#/?channel=RES_BUY
..
..
If you owned Kenwood House, you could prolly buy Bishop Auckland 10 times over
It's owned by a charity and staffed by volunteers
Wouldn't be selling if it were mine.
Kenwood House was given away by a member of The Guinness Family I believe. Would be the most expensive house in the UK by far if it was privately owned, outside royal palaces.
William Hill have stopped me depositing anything - betfair and bet 365 now also want proof of funds.
If you've had accounts for over 30 years i would say you've not got a problem. I've dealt with so called problem gamblers all my life they do their doe in then disappear.
The stakes get higher then its ask for credit then that's it their gone.
The fukin gamb comm have been clueless from the day they were made up. No one under 18 allowed in - My cashiers 5 year old was behind the counter when they made the surprise visit and had a warning and a 10 page letter about under age gambling ?? She was 5 year old FFS. A fella self excluded and he came back in a week later with a beard and baseball cap on.
You want to see the problem gamblers go and stand next to the scratch cards in any shop they are buying £10 at a time and scratching them off there n then then having another go.
They say the blackmarket wont flourish thats absolute bollocks its always gone on and will happen even more now.
If you've had accounts for over 30 years i would say you've not got a problem. I've dealt with so called problem gamblers all my life they do their doe in then disappear.
The stakes get higher then its ask for credit then that's it their gone.
The fukin gamb comm have been clueless from the day they were made up. No one under 18 allowed in - My cashiers 5 year old was behind the counter when they made the surprise visit and had a warning and a 10 page letter about under age gambling ?? She was 5 year old FFS. A fella self excluded and he came back in a week later with a beard and baseball cap on.
You want to see the problem gamblers go and stand next to the scratch cards in any shop they are buying £10 at a time and scratching them off there n then then having another go.
They say the blackmarket wont flourish thats absolute bollocks its always gone on and will happen even more now.
Just read the northern echo website picture of the old corals flagship in Peterlee going to be a pub and cocktail bar .sad to say I cam see many more.
Ronnie.
Ronnie.
Main road.
Nice to see you are still about.
Hope you are well.
Ronnie.
Nice to see you are still about.
Hope you are well.
Ronnie.
what numbers use a blackmarket bookie
i,d wager you as much as you like 99.999999% of people who have a bet couldnt find a blackmarket bookie to put a bet on if you offered them a month in magaluf as a reward for doing so
i,d wager you as much as you like 99.999999% of people who have a bet couldnt find a blackmarket bookie to put a bet on if you offered them a month in magaluf as a reward for doing so
like a grren horn bookie in ireland stood on a jpint with byrnes staring at him, with some punters so well informed a so called blackmarket bookie of any scale open to all wouldnt last the week out
1stp.
I know one he was named after a football stadium in Manchester.
Hope you are well.
Wonder if he needs any more of the old coral betting slips.
I know one he was named after a football stadium in Manchester.
Hope you are well.
Wonder if he needs any more of the old coral betting slips.
i new.used on at work british steel 40 yrs ago
and new one in the back room of the FOUNTAIN PUB in ormesby around the same time
but if you offered me a million £ i wouldnt no where to start to look for one today ,let alone trust them enough
A, to hand money over
B, to be there when/if i needed to collect
and new one in the back room of the FOUNTAIN PUB in ormesby around the same time
but if you offered me a million £ i wouldnt no where to start to look for one today ,let alone trust them enough
A, to hand money over
B, to be there when/if i needed to collect
Thousands of illegal black/grey market operators for casino and slots , which is where the majority of problem gamblers are meant to be. Easy to find with a quick google search.
Horses is a bit harder. It seems you have to know somebody who knows somebody who can introduce you.
This is why all these measures are pointless. The problems gamblers with the slots and casino still have loads of far more dangerous options, where they will be likely scammed, targetted, rinsed etc. They wont be able to withdraw any winnings, though slot addicts dont tend to do much withdrawing, they just carry on until its gone.
Horse racing punters either have to seek out these whatsapp/illegal layers for tehmselves, or just give up gambling. Most will probably just give up, which kills the sport.
Either way, both black markets are only going to grow bigger if you keep actively preventing people from betting in the regulated ones.
Horses is a bit harder. It seems you have to know somebody who knows somebody who can introduce you.
This is why all these measures are pointless. The problems gamblers with the slots and casino still have loads of far more dangerous options, where they will be likely scammed, targetted, rinsed etc. They wont be able to withdraw any winnings, though slot addicts dont tend to do much withdrawing, they just carry on until its gone.
Horse racing punters either have to seek out these whatsapp/illegal layers for tehmselves, or just give up gambling. Most will probably just give up, which kills the sport.
Either way, both black markets are only going to grow bigger if you keep actively preventing people from betting in the regulated ones.
thats confusing blackmarket bookies with SCAMMERS
I used to like the social milieu of a bookies, never pass a one these days with more than 5 people in. Their numbers need to be halved and then halved again they are a high street eye sore in 2023.
Ladbokes at bottom of Big Market, Newcastle upon Tyne was prob my fave but I think thats gone now.
Ladbokes at bottom of Big Market, Newcastle upon Tyne was prob my fave but I think thats gone now.
FAMOUS BOOKIES IN THE MOVIES
Get Carter
Carry On Convenience
Get Carter
Carry On Convenience
Cardinal Scott that was one of 8 bookies owned
by labdrokes, all in centre of Newcastle.
Some of the other ones were somewhat desperate
places in comparison, but all where full during
racing hours.
by labdrokes, all in centre of Newcastle.
Some of the other ones were somewhat desperate
places in comparison, but all where full during
racing hours.
yes, a lot of black market operators, will be SCAMMERS.
thats the whole point, you are going to be sending addicts from the regulated market, to far more dangerous markets. all in the name of saving them from themselves.
thats the whole point, you are going to be sending addicts from the regulated market, to far more dangerous markets. all in the name of saving them from themselves.
The unregulated drug dealers will soon
step up to fill a void if one occurs.
step up to fill a void if one occurs.
The ones in vicinity of Black Garter pub were ones to avoid.
ronnie rails
All good - weve been round a long time !!
Might be gettin me ready reckoner back out I can't see anyone giving the details out so loads of accounts will be stopped but they will want to bet somewhere.
They wanted my details - not a chance.
All good - weve been round a long time !!
Might be gettin me ready reckoner back out I can't see anyone giving the details out so loads of accounts will be stopped but they will want to bet somewhere.
They wanted my details - not a chance.
Main Road.
Lovely to see you still about used to love your stories about the old days in your shop great days sad to say gone forever.You certainly can't lock your shop up and let the chinese smoke and play the fobts these day.
Ronnie.
Lovely to see you still about used to love your stories about the old days in your shop great days sad to say gone forever.You certainly can't lock your shop up and let the chinese smoke and play the fobts these day.
Ronnie.
Indies definitely got screwed over by the GC's charging structures - Pleased to see you are still about though maineroad. 
Maine Road.
Just Brought one of your old posts up.
Just Brought one of your old posts up.
the interesting one will be on course. who is going to give date of birth name & address to have a pony on ?
45/50 yrs ago around boro i always seemed to use indepentents ,was one outisde nearby every working mans club,before i was 18 always used to stand outside listening to the blower service, the lttle ormbesby club near boro had the bookies blower service from next door piped in to the club bar
Thanks Ronnie I remember that well - gonna start back on here a bit with a few more tales - now me old mans settling in the sky hes not around to worry about the taxman.
@cacique
"Is this just going to apply to Uk domiciled bookies?
And if so, can't they just move headquarters and continue on bypassing the UK rules?"
It just applies to bookies operating with a UKGC licence - which they all need, wherever domiciled, to offer betting products legally in the UK.
None of the big players would want to run a UK business as a grey/black market operation out of a foreign country without a UK licence.
"Is this just going to apply to Uk domiciled bookies?
And if so, can't they just move headquarters and continue on bypassing the UK rules?"
It just applies to bookies operating with a UKGC licence - which they all need, wherever domiciled, to offer betting products legally in the UK.
None of the big players would want to run a UK business as a grey/black market operation out of a foreign country without a UK licence.
How the fook can they do a check on you in a betting shop, you go up to the counter trying to get a tenner on a dog in the next at hove and they usher you to another counter whilst they perform a credit check on you and by the way do you happen to have 6 months worth of wage slips and bank statements on you?
a check on you in a betting shop, you go up to the counter trying to get a tenner on a dog in the next at hove and they usher you to another counter whilst they perform a credit check on you and by the way do you happen to have 6 months worth of wage slips and bank statements on you?
far quicker for the cashier just to threaten to phone the blokes wife
ergh argh/your JUDD just put 5 bob on a 33,s shot,
Sign up for this card sir, includes all
credit checks and gives you bog on all
bets placed before 10.30 day of race,.. Until
you hit a winner or have already been barred
at your current address.
credit checks and gives you bog on all
bets placed before 10.30 day of race,.. Until
you hit a winner or have already been barred
at your current address.
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