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leif
13 Sep 23 19:04
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Date Joined: 26 Jun 08
| Topic/replies: 14,994 | Blogger: leif's blog
... certain to be applied in shops' despite Gambling Commission assurances

https://www.racingpost.com/news/gambling-review/bookmakers-say-affordability-checks-almost-certain-to-be-applied-in-shops-despite-gambling-commission-assurances-aii660q0MYSS/

Bookmakers have warned that affordability checks on customers will inevitably extend into betting shops due to pressure from the Gambling Commission, with one operator describing the situation as “a complete mess”.

Leading figures at two independent bookmakers expressed scepticism and uncertainty about recent assurances from Gambling Commission chief executive Andrew Rhodes that affordability checks would only be carried out on those betting online and would not take place in high street bookmakers or at racecourses.

These concerns from bookmakers have added to the sense of confusion and anxiety about the commission's ongoing consultation into the government’s gambling review white paper. Punters have publicly doubted the ability of bookmakers to conduct frictionless affordability checks, while some racehorse owners are cutting back on their investment due to the potential damage to the sport’s finances and the hostile environment for betting on their horses.

Howard Chisholm, managing director of Chisholm Bookmakers, said affordability checks would extend beyond being online and would potentially exacerbate the movement of people from the regulated market to the unregulated black market. 

“The problem with affordability checks is that while they start online they will almost certainly be applied in shops,” he said. “This is going to be done without any guidance and it’s going to be a complete mess.

“The staff in our shops know the regular customers, but we can’t do these checks in the background like they do online without the customer knowing. Will we have to stand them up in front of the counter and ask, ‘What’s your date of birth, where do you live, what’s your passport number?’.

“If you’re asking a customer online for this information and they don’t want to give it then they’ll go to a retail shop and if they then face these checks, which they will have to face, then eventually they will go to the black market. You can't stop this, you just move it on.”

Social responsibility and anti-money laundering checks already take place in betting shops. Greg Knight, managing director of Jenningsbet, said retail customers tended to bet at lower levels, which might lead to them taking longer to reach any affordability thresholds.

He said: “Retail is a different beast. It’s a different customer to begin with as the average stake for retail nationwide is £12-13.”

However, punters are growing increasingly concerned about the impact of the checks, according to Knight, who added: “It’s the main talking point of our customers and within the industry as it impacts anyone who is interested in betting or sport. There’s a huge groundswell of opinion that it’s not the government’s business.

“It’s a slippery slope and I don’t how this doesn’t seep into other parts of people’s lives. The government is quick to try and alleviate fears, but you have got to let people be adults.”

In a letter to the Racing Post, Rhodes claimed three per cent of all betting accounts would be subject to enhanced affordability checks, of which around 90 per cent would be carried out through credit reference agencies and open-source banking via a regulated third-party provider.

He said: "These checks will not give gambling companies access to customers’ full bank account data, and any information operators receive must only ever be used for assessing risks of harm, rather than practices like identifying and restricting winners."

Rhodes claimed the proposals related to online gambling only, adding: “They would not apply to betting in bookmakers or at the racetrack. High street bookmakers may decide to carry out checks based on social responsibility or anti-money laundering risks but these changes being consulted on apply only to online gambling."

He also remarked on "an assumption that credit checks impact a credit rating and could damage credit scores", claiming these soft credit checks will not do so.

"Credit scores will be unaffected," he added, "and data on a customer’s gambling behaviour will not be shared with the financial sector under these proposals."

Rhodes also claimed that most bettors would not undergo checks under the proposals. He repeated a recent pledge that the government and the commission would not mandate bookmakers to implement checks at levels such as those proposed in the consultation "until we were sure that they can be delivered frictionlessly for the vast majority of customers who would be checked".

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Replies: 77
By:
formoftheace
When: 13 Sep 23 19:15
Will Rhodes be joining Spewtin and wee Kim J for tea….ffs
By:
formoftheace
When: 13 Sep 23 19:26
Dreadful scenes
By:
1st time poster
When: 13 Sep 23 19:27
as betting shops are empty,pubs are emply,workies clubs are empty where do bookies/people think these blackmarket bookies will operate from, COSTA  ?
who the fook would trust a blackmarket bookie these days,they havnt trusted licence bookmakers for 25yrs
By:
impossible123
When: 13 Sep 23 19:30
I'd not lose a night's sleep if the demise of bookies here or ply their trade online materialises because of AC; chickens coming back to roost.

Tbh I'd rather have a similar system to France/Hong Kong/Australia or the USA to the present bookies (turf accountants) here, why? These scumbags call themselves bookies but they are NOT; they are charlatans with a licence to fleece punters or refuse to take bets.

Good riddance, if so, I'll say. I hope The Racing Post goes down the swanny too. The sooner the better!
By:
liberator of the oppressed
When: 13 Sep 23 19:40
You can just imagine the scene going in for the Hunt cup you want £200 on at 10/1 price shortening savvy customer scuze me sir we cannot accept that without your P60 and twenty years bank statements and details of your expenditure no prior warning so basically **** off next please. Plank behind the counter shouts out no bets except mugs and FOBT players taken queue goes on for ever. high street bookmaker says fearful being fined they say. we know real reason don't we. This whole thing is pissing everybody off. I've recently like many others I suspect become totally cheesed off with anything to do with racing this and the other shenanigans and don't get me on this mickey mouse league WALOFS. Where is the BHA and our leaders anybody know? Switch off the lights.
By:
formoftheace
When: 13 Sep 23 19:44
Bookie shop is now a charity shop,racecourses will also suffer as punters will walk with a sour taste feeling bitter towards the lot involved who sat on their @rse…
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 13 Sep 23 20:11
Bookies trying to rally punters to fight their corner

What delicious irony,


MPs need bigger bribes, ffs
By:
hulk23
When: 13 Sep 23 20:14
must also be applied to on-course bookmakers as well.  or it makes zero sense.  you can't have a penny online, or in a shop, but if you go along to the races you can blow 40 grand, that you can't afford. 

so that's a lot of on-course bookies looking for a new career.
By:
impossible123
When: 13 Sep 23 20:45
Just separate fobt and sports betting eg horseracing. A different licence each.
By:
impossible123
When: 13 Sep 23 20:54
AC must include on-course bookies otherwise a court case is imminent. I think on-course is where the biggest and more likely abuse of money laundering will occur.
By:
SlippyBlue
When: 13 Sep 23 21:02
.. "Average stake for retail nationwide is £12-13."

Is that really the case?
On my occasional visits to the shops in South London I don't see it being that high.
By:
brassneck
When: 13 Sep 23 21:05
you all forget it is the bookmakers that own the exchanges.
By:
brassneck
When: 13 Sep 23 21:07
NOT to mention the paddybots,joebots.billybots.crookbots,and all the other botsLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
By:
hulk23
When: 13 Sep 23 21:13
all forms of gambling shouldn't be lumped together. 

the bookies created a monster when they were allowed to introduce fobts.  if you wish to play them, in any form, you should be subjected to an affordability check as the propensity to become heavily addicted to them is on a completely different level to someone having a few recreational bets on the horses or the football.
By:
brassneck
When: 13 Sep 23 21:17
"but fear not my friends the AI Babe Ruth robot is on his way!!!!!!Wink
By:
screaming from beneaththewaves
When: 13 Sep 23 21:17
Ten bets taken across the counter Nine of them are 5p EW Lucky 15s, the tenth is £100 on the next favourite. Hey presto, the average stake is £11.35.

A;ways be wary of any statistic which quotes the average. Average temperature, average wages, average anything.
By:
impossible123
When: 13 Sep 23 21:18
I firmly believe a radical restructuring of horseracing and betting is absolutely necessary to reflect the digital age. A differentiation between sports betting and gaming betting is long overdue.

The might of the bookies is too pronounced and damaging to be ignored. Otherwise another 2 decades of abuses will be repeated by the bookies on recreational punters, and the vulnerables eg problem gamblers and fobt addicts.
By:
brassneck
When: 13 Sep 23 21:23
the babe bot will bot the botGrin
By:
impossible123
When: 13 Sep 23 21:23
Are casinos subject to AC? If so, using the same algorithm?
By:
ronnie rails
When: 13 Sep 23 21:24
Slipyblue.
12/13 is way off Sfbtw is spot on.
Hope you are both well.
Ronnie.
By:
hulk23
When: 13 Sep 23 21:26
when the bookies introduced fobt's nobody had the foresight or knowledge to say yes you can bring these things in, but they are incredibly addictive - the machines are carefully designed from their shape, colour, flashing lights and sounds to encourage play and the rapid play furthers more stimulation of the brain. The player starts to lose awareness of their surroundings and they become more immersed in the machine itself.

so if anyone wants to play them you better make sure they can afford it.

oh, and by the way you don't need to make sure people can afford to bet on horses, especially as you've limited most of them to buttons anyway.
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 13 Sep 23 21:29
Fobts followed the tech they had tested on fruit machines.

They knew how addictive they would be, the public
did not.
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 13 Sep 23 21:33
Advertising tobacco is banned

And for good reason,.. Then... Vapes take their place on display

What happens... Kids start vaping.




Can these kids afford to vape?

Can dad afford 40 cigarettes a day

They don't care, do they,... But punters...
By:
hulk23
When: 13 Sep 23 21:35
people who rubber stamped their introduction didn't know.  or did know and turned a blind eye amidst a plethora of br0wn envelopes and days out at the belfry.
By:
hulk23
When: 13 Sep 23 21:37
can't have £10 on a horse in a bookie but can walk into the newsagent next door and buy a grands worth of scratchcards.

is this definitely not an april fools ??
By:
cacique
When: 13 Sep 23 21:41
Is this just going to apply to Uk domiciled bookies?

And if so, can't they just move headquarters and continue on bypassing the UK rules?



Presumably a foreign whale of a punter will still be allowed to bet millions with no questions asked
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 13 Sep 23 21:41
98% of shop punters are just betting addicts..
no idea what value is..no idea what a bha OR is..no idea what overounds are..form of 1111 is more attractive than 0000...fools and money easily parted..if last bet of night was a coin toss at 4/5 each they would all be involved.
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 13 Sep 23 21:44
I just bought some wine

Spent quite a bit as it was cheap
and my bank offered me 20% cashback.

No affordability check but obviously
bank is regulating what folk can spend.

I still can't see why bank card deposits
need a further affordability check.
By:
hulk23
When: 13 Sep 23 21:45
been in a shop lately Rico ?

98% of shop punters are just there to get a free coffee and a heat
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 13 Sep 23 21:50
last time i was in a shop i left with the safe..gus carters in west chirton.
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 13 Sep 23 21:52
LaughLaugh
By:
hulk23
When: 13 Sep 23 21:52
98.00001% of shop punters are just there to get a free coffee, a heat and to rob the safe
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 13 Sep 23 21:54
correct hulk.
By:
impossible123
When: 13 Sep 23 21:57
The free coffee is to entice potential customers into the shop hoping they'll spend money whilst there. It's the shop's equivalent of a bookie's free spin/bet promotion. But, unlike a free spin/bet it does not have the same degree of addiction or instant financial gratification/reward which is a strong stimulant for a repeat play regards fobt.
By:
hulk23
When: 13 Sep 23 22:00
honourable mentions to charging their phones and having a sh!t ....

... and trying to work out if they can make a profit long-term backing 8.4 shots at 5/1
By:
leif
When: 13 Sep 23 22:02
Without the crack slot machines there would be 75% less shops on the high street.
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 14 Sep 23 10:38
The minimum bet on BJ at many LV casinos (Ceasars who own WH for example) is $25.  That's $1,500 an hour MINIMUM.

The max unrestricted bet on athletics at 5/1 with WH (Ceasars) is £40.

30 years ago the minimum bet at BJ was $1 and you could get £400 on a 5/1 shot in athletics Plain

That's a h2h swing of 250,000% Laugh
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 14 Sep 23 10:40
sorry 25,000%
By:
DIFERENT GRAVY 12
When: 14 Sep 23 11:12
They should offer large-chested female cashiers, Hooters is packed every day and they are not there for the grub.
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