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It seems that week-after-week the markets are declining in terms of liquidity. Most of the time my back orders don't get matched or if they do they take far too long. Nearly every back market order will result in the selection shortening but only when the system knows its screwing you (you've got a liability you need to hedge). I've traded these markets for 20 years and have witnessed so many changes in market dynamics but I'm coming to the conclusion now that systems are in place to prevent you from making any worthwhile money. Volatility (wild price swings on most runners), limited liquidity, and a bot that's built to destroy winners all make up for terrible product.
But what has led to this? Have they banned some of the big market players, are we on the edge of a recession, is the sport declining, or was the money in the past just betfair injecting liquidity?
But what has led to this? Have they banned some of the big market players, are we on the edge of a recession, is the sport declining, or was the money in the past just betfair injecting liquidity?
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Interest in the sport is declining and Betfair is doing it's best to stagnate the exchange while extracting as much profit as possible. Don't expect to see any improvement.
I should think with the proof of fund’s situation many layers have gone.and those who are still here will find it very hard or probably impossible to make it pay laying.
Many not playing on own accounts.
I be a medium player rather than small or larger nowerdays I think.
Can only speak about Greyhound markets recently, its a good observation, I am 90% lay, as a made up example I would be happily laying 4.0 then a bit at 4.1 to get £50-£300 lay matched, sometimes 4.2 4.3 if it happened to be on the drift...nowerdays couple of quid in every box, set the software to just chunk in a big lay at 4.3 etc...and guess what you magically get every time...4.3. The alternative is to bleed it in with a few quid jumping in front everytime and you get 4.7.
Anyone that is serious I would recommend they try Match Book, yes ok the prices are mirrored to here but I am 99% certain they are sticking up liquid to help you get matched.
I be a medium player rather than small or larger nowerdays I think.
Can only speak about Greyhound markets recently, its a good observation, I am 90% lay, as a made up example I would be happily laying 4.0 then a bit at 4.1 to get £50-£300 lay matched, sometimes 4.2 4.3 if it happened to be on the drift...nowerdays couple of quid in every box, set the software to just chunk in a big lay at 4.3 etc...and guess what you magically get every time...4.3. The alternative is to bleed it in with a few quid jumping in front everytime and you get 4.7.
Anyone that is serious I would recommend they try Match Book, yes ok the prices are mirrored to here but I am 99% certain they are sticking up liquid to help you get matched.
revs...despite the theories about Betfair's various schemes (and these theories might be right or they might be wrong) I would have thought the most obvious answer is the country's economic situation.
Brexit, Liz Truss and her daft chancellor, plus years and years of foolishly low interest rates, have wrecked the UK economy and we are clinging to the edge of a clifftop at the moment. Indeed, the years of keeping interest rates too low has created a generation of younger adults who cannot cope with not being able to buy what they want as soon as they want it. Now they are in a panic cos' those days are ended.
So, little surprise betting turnover is down. And down everywhere, not just on here. The wider economy will now be a test for people who have not yet learned to cut their cloth according to their means - and exactly the same applies on here. Backers or layers will have to accept the good times are over - very possibly forever on here - and find other ways to make their money.
Ask stock market players and they will tell you how the London Stock Exchange is seeing decreased liquidity, as well. These are signs of the times we live in more than any dark BF scheming etc.
Brexit, Liz Truss and her daft chancellor, plus years and years of foolishly low interest rates, have wrecked the UK economy and we are clinging to the edge of a clifftop at the moment. Indeed, the years of keeping interest rates too low has created a generation of younger adults who cannot cope with not being able to buy what they want as soon as they want it. Now they are in a panic cos' those days are ended.
So, little surprise betting turnover is down. And down everywhere, not just on here. The wider economy will now be a test for people who have not yet learned to cut their cloth according to their means - and exactly the same applies on here. Backers or layers will have to accept the good times are over - very possibly forever on here - and find other ways to make their money.
Ask stock market players and they will tell you how the London Stock Exchange is seeing decreased liquidity, as well. These are signs of the times we live in more than any dark BF scheming etc.
Money was cheap for many years, that created rampant asset prices and valuations that were unsustainable.
Now money is expensive (the cost to borrow), and the only thing keeping the economy up was employment vacancies.
But they have now started to contract because businesses can’t afford their expenses as people are discouraged to spend what they have due to the BoE rate increases.
This will not get easier for years, and most likely a re-evaluation of value will come…ie a major fkin crash.
Now money is expensive (the cost to borrow), and the only thing keeping the economy up was employment vacancies.
But they have now started to contract because businesses can’t afford their expenses as people are discouraged to spend what they have due to the BoE rate increases.
This will not get easier for years, and most likely a re-evaluation of value will come…ie a major fkin crash.
I think people leaving is exponential, and as a result it will get progressively worse. I've traded the July Cup today and I've been responsible for nearly 10% of the pre-market turnover. Once I leave, the only ones left will be Robbie the Robot, and a handful of £5 punters - maybe thats what they've been aiming for?
Maybe a rise in interest rates has led the more established/larger traders to deploy capital elsewhere, away from betfair markets and into money markets? I would put forward that BF scheming is an odds-on shot - markets only function to screw you now. Those who are profitable, understand this.
Here's hoping for the market crash, I've been sitting in money markets for the past few months keeping my powder dry!
Maybe a rise in interest rates has led the more established/larger traders to deploy capital elsewhere, away from betfair markets and into money markets? I would put forward that BF scheming is an odds-on shot - markets only function to screw you now. Those who are profitable, understand this.
Here's hoping for the market crash, I've been sitting in money markets for the past few months keeping my powder dry!
revs..as a full time player since 2012, 95% on exchanges I have never thought BF 'screwing me' or 'scheming' has had any noticeable effect. And bar 2015, I have made a profit each of those years.
Granted, the Premium Charge is obnoxious and so I am mostly driven to to the other sites (mostly purple). On there, the 'lurches' on prices have always irritated me rather than the much quicker and smoother movements on here. And that is aside from liquidity being so poor.
But I have never traded, save to hedge a profitable position from time to time, so my experience is probably different from yours.
Dustybin - yes, agreed. The other thing about the employment market which no so called journalist has ever seen fit to publicise, is how the do-gooders who insisted that employers set up access to pension schemes, even if they only have one employee, have driven up the cost of employing people.
Hence, business after business - especially racecourses, now rely upon cheap agency staff because they get around the pension scheme legislation by doing so. To the best of my knowledge, agencies don't have to provide pension scheme access (unless someone on here knows different) so we have an unstable employment base for a great number of lower paid people. Not what the do-gooders wanted, I'm sure.
It really is an example of batsh*t crazy UK, where too many people are running around bothering themselves stupid about what everyone else is doing (IE gambling commission). If we have a crash (which I think we will) chances are it will be the biggest in history and worrying about what BF and the purple mob are doing will be the least of all our worries!!! Glad I'm 63 and have made my money...
Granted, the Premium Charge is obnoxious and so I am mostly driven to to the other sites (mostly purple). On there, the 'lurches' on prices have always irritated me rather than the much quicker and smoother movements on here. And that is aside from liquidity being so poor.
But I have never traded, save to hedge a profitable position from time to time, so my experience is probably different from yours.
Dustybin - yes, agreed. The other thing about the employment market which no so called journalist has ever seen fit to publicise, is how the do-gooders who insisted that employers set up access to pension schemes, even if they only have one employee, have driven up the cost of employing people.
Hence, business after business - especially racecourses, now rely upon cheap agency staff because they get around the pension scheme legislation by doing so. To the best of my knowledge, agencies don't have to provide pension scheme access (unless someone on here knows different) so we have an unstable employment base for a great number of lower paid people. Not what the do-gooders wanted, I'm sure.
It really is an example of batsh*t crazy UK, where too many people are running around bothering themselves stupid about what everyone else is doing (IE gambling commission). If we have a crash (which I think we will) chances are it will be the biggest in history and worrying about what BF and the purple mob are doing will be the least of all our worries!!! Glad I'm 63 and have made my money...
Volatility (wild price swings on most runners)
This is a good thing. A very good thing. The more volatility, the more chance of a good price to back or lay being available.
To be honest, I've found this place improving out of all recognition pre-race in the last few weeks. The violent price swings mean I keep finding myself laying horses which I hadn't imagined being able to. A horse can be 5.0/5.1, I've stuck up a lay of a couple of hundred quid at, say, 4.0, and seen it quite inexplicably suddenly get taken, and then watched the price drift out to 6.0 just as quickly.
Until recently this never happened. Market moves never swung like that on here. I don't know what's happened. Maybe the big-staking punters who ensured market moves only went in one direction have fallen foul of affordability checks?
I can understand why someone looking to trade prices rather than have a bet and let it run might be in despair at this. But for punters this is brilliant.
This is a good thing. A very good thing. The more volatility, the more chance of a good price to back or lay being available.
To be honest, I've found this place improving out of all recognition pre-race in the last few weeks. The violent price swings mean I keep finding myself laying horses which I hadn't imagined being able to. A horse can be 5.0/5.1, I've stuck up a lay of a couple of hundred quid at, say, 4.0, and seen it quite inexplicably suddenly get taken, and then watched the price drift out to 6.0 just as quickly.
Until recently this never happened. Market moves never swung like that on here. I don't know what's happened. Maybe the big-staking punters who ensured market moves only went in one direction have fallen foul of affordability checks?
I can understand why someone looking to trade prices rather than have a bet and let it run might be in despair at this. But for punters this is brilliant.
The knight , what on earth are you doing on this forum , you talk far too much sense. Conspiracies abound ,but you ignore them , just because there is no evidence . Also you don't articulate every single thought in your head , hence your relative low number of posts , compared to others with 20,000 plus. This really isn't a place for people with above average intelligence ! Good Luck (sincerely).
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