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sparrow
02 May 23 08:18
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Date Joined: 20 Jul 02
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Greg Wood.

Affordability checks will hit revenues but there is a world of difference between online slot machines and sports betting.

A couple of hours after the government’s White Paper on gambling reform was finally published last week, Julie Harrington, the British Horseracing Authority’s chief executive, was asked whether the proposed legislation took into account the fundamental difference between betting – on racing and other sports – and gaming, on fixed-margin casino products.

“There is some good language in there, accepting that there is a difference between sport and evidence of faster losses on those casino-based games,” Harrington said. “I think on a more detailed reading, you’ll see that it may not be the headlines, but the language below really does differentiate that, so it’s clear that that has landed.”

As anyone who has flown with a budget airline may confirm, however, “landed” can feel like a relative concept when there is still a 30-minute yomp to passport control to come. And whatever “the language below” might suggest, the simple fact remains that when it comes to the proposed introduction of “affordability” checks for punters – a potentially significant threat to racing’s funding from betting – there is no differentiation at all.

Initial “frictionless” checks on punters’ finances will be triggered by a net loss of £125 over a month, or £500 in a year. Potentially more intrusive checks will be made if a customer shows signs of “binge” gambling, defined as a net loss of £1,000 in 24 hours, with further consultation on an additional trigger of a £2,000 net loss in 90 days.

As things stand, these thresholds apply regardless of whether a punter gambles solely on sport, solely on casino products or a mixture of the two. And while the relative speed of losses on casino games is acknowledged by some of the government’s language in the white paper, the nature of those losses is not.

A customer plays on a slot machine in a casino. Online games are hugely profitable for gambling companies with new legislation now in the offing.

There is a reason why online slot machines and roulette games are addictive by design. The bright colours and graphics, the flashing lights and sounds and above all the lightning speed of play are gaudy wrapping paper around what is, at its heart, a dull, mechanical process of separating gamblers from a percentage of their stake. The margin is fixed, by the same maths that holds the universe together. The more you gamble, the more certain it is that you will end up as a loser, so they want to keep you spinning, semi-hypnotised and several times a minute, for hours on end.

Most racing punters end up as losers too, of course, but the nature and pattern of those losses will often be entirely different. Some punters bet only on major meetings such as Cheltenham, others only on football or perhaps a more low-profile sport where they feel their knowledge gives them an edge.

And even the super-shrewdies who are sharp enough to make their betting pay long term are all but certain to hit a losing streak at some point that triggers an affordability check, never mind that they are probably giving a bit back at York in August when they made five times as much at Cheltenham in March.

The biggest gambling conglomerates have become hooked on the easy profits from gaming in the last 20 years, and fall over themselves to cross-promote gaming products to customers who initially sign up to bet on sport, as if it is just another way of having a punt. They even have the cheek to inform punters whose sports betting is restricted to pennies that they can gamble as much as they please on slots and roulette.

And racing, for the most part, has stood by and allowed it to happen. When £100-a-spin gaming machines in high-street betting shops toxified gambling’s image, industry figures swallowed – and, in some cases, parroted – the lie that thousands of betting shops would close, with disastrous results for racing’s Levy and media rights income, if stakes were cut to £2 a spin. They were, and they didn’t.

On that basis, an estimated loss to racing of between £8m and £14m as a result of affordability checks can perhaps be seen as the price to be paid for failing to stand up for betting and highlight the poisonous effects of gaming.

But that estimated loss could well be an underestimate, and there are already calls from some campaigners for the thresholds that trigger checks to be tightened. That is only ever likely to be a one-way process.

It is also unclear to what extent affordability checks will impact on a punter’s credit rating. If there is a chance that you will be denied a loan or a mortgage because you had a couple of bad days at Cheltenham, it will be a disincentive to open an account in the first place.

This Grand National was an unsettling spectacle for many inside racing’s bubble
The consultation period on the White Paper before legislation is introduced has already started, and these are all points the BHA will presumably seek to raise in the weeks ahead.

But clear blue water between betting and gaming still seems unlikely, in the short to medium term at least. So on that basis, it might also be useful to press for a small fraction of the new £140m Statutory Gambling Levy, which is a very sensible feature of the government’s plans, to be spent on meaningful, definitive research to quantify the relative harmfulness of betting and gaming.

Gambling businesses have the necessary data at their fingertips – they can, after all, identify unprofitable racing punters after just three or four bets – and it should be freely available to any independent researcher who requires it. Then, and only then, we might be able to think about ways to finally purge the toxin of gaming from racing and betting.

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Replies: 41
By:
jimnast
When: 02 May 23 08:50
the way i read that is the bha are aware of the restrictions put on many punters who show signs of having a clue about backing horses,yet they are prepared to risk a huge loss in racegoers and possible closure of race courses to help the online \ high street bookmakers increase turnover.
By:
frog1000
When: 02 May 23 09:03
From the BHA website https://www.britishhorseracing.com/about/the-bha/board-and-executive-2/:

Joe Saumarez Smith
Chair

Joe is CEO of Sports Gaming Limited, a London-based management consultancy to the gaming industry, and has for the past 20 years plus advised and worked closely with lotteries, governments, investment banks and operating companies on strategy, operational restructuring, finance and merger and acquisition.

He is also chairman of Bede Gaming, a leading technology supplier to operators and lotteries which is based in the Newcastle-upon-Tyne and regulated by the UK Gambling Commission and other international regulatory bodies. He also chairs Eyas Gaming, a joint venture with Gauselmann Group, focussed on the recently regulated German gaming market.
By:
ribero1
When: 02 May 23 09:08
and he's one of the clowns who wants us to race on Sunday nights etc.
By:
frog1000
When: 02 May 23 09:11
When the bloke going into bat for racing with the DCMS and the Gambling Commission to try and get it treated differently from more addictive slots has those credentials what chance has racing got?
By:
Storm Alert
When: 02 May 23 09:17
This Grand National was an unsettling spectacle for many inside racing’s bubble

What does that mean? was it just a title below a picture?
By:
dave1357
When: 02 May 23 09:24
yes prob a link to another story
By:
top2rated
When: 02 May 23 09:29
FAO Storm Alert

[   This image is no longer available.   ]

It was a link on the left-hand side of the page which [b]sparrow somehow managed to inlude in his copy & paste job.[/b]
By:
top2rated
When: 02 May 23 09:31
It's easy to screw up. Just like I've done with the text formatting in my reply. Laugh
By:
Storm Alert
When: 02 May 23 09:46
Thx, was thinking it was really bad news if the Grand National was being linked to problem gamblers...

Racing (specifically Sports betting), needs to find a way of persuading the gambling reform decision makers to separate it from measures introduced to protect casino/fobt gamblers. In bricks and mortar shops this could be straightforward. Online (including mobiles) a whole can of worms. I can imagine gambling being completely restricted from mobile devices the way things are going.

Most of us on here would only be affected by measures restricting gambling on casino/fobt, if bookmakers profits are hit and profit margins were increased on sports betting. Although it is almost impossible to get fancy antepost prices nowadays, compared to the 70's/80's overall horse racing markets are far more favourable.
By:
Trident
When: 02 May 23 10:45
Racing (specifically Sports betting), needs to find a way of persuading the gambling reform decision makers to separate it from measures introduced to protect casino/fobt gamblers. Will not happen from what I know.
By:
dustybin
When: 02 May 23 12:27
That Carolyn Harris was happy using slots figures as a headline when she was saying she wasn’t against horse racing betting.

She never said ‘not being against betting on horse racing’ meant you could only lose 125 quid in a month before your activity would be assessed.

Used the slots as a rabble rouser to interfere in anyone gambling on anything, irrespective of the fact they never even use slots.

WAC
By:
truehoncho
When: 02 May 23 12:41
Tbf, racing is doing enough to destroy itself and probably doesn't need the the gambling legislation to to finish it off.
By:
CROPSICK
When: 02 May 23 13:59
Yep, 5 meetings today 2 a/w, just a load of s**t.
By:
truehoncho
When: 02 May 23 14:14
I thought the racing was quite good today. Plenty of handicaps and 3yo races.
By:
sparrow
When: 02 May 23 14:18
Yes a decent days racing and plenty for everybody.
By:
dambuster
When: 03 May 23 15:33
The country is being run by Liars and the opposition are a bunch of lunatics, The BHB are not fit for purpose
and the GC don't know what there own rules are. Gawd Helpus
By:
sparrow
When: 03 May 23 15:43
Laugh
By:
jimnast
When: 03 May 23 16:24
Dambuster you could add plenty to your post I’m sure you know that ,top of the not fit for purpose league are the bha,followed by the gc but the banks are catching up.
By:
sparrow
When: 03 May 23 16:35
The end of the world is nigh.
By:
impossible123
When: 03 May 23 16:36
The Gambling Commission was in bed with the bookies eg advocated £25 per spin acceptable for fobt, and its then head honcho jumped ship before he was sacked. The former head honcho of The BHA was a former bookie - both with long tenureship in their respective post.

What would you get with the above ingredients? Implosion or a car-crash from the present spiral-decline of standard and revenue. When the scumbag bookies are ruling the roost only one direction horseracing can go ie progressively downhill and implosion. And, any government - remember it was Labour who initiated and facilitated this "gambling" trend/fever - that took 4 years to necessitated AC cannot be relied upon for restructuring.

The Bloody Hopeless Authority (BHA) ain't fit for purpose either given its previous close association (personnel and strategies) with the scumbag bookies.
By:
jimnast
When: 03 May 23 16:41
The bha and jcr seem to be doing there best to put people of visiting racecourses,arc have already requested to race behind closed doors in the winter .
By:
akajak
When: 03 May 23 16:57
Jimnast where did you see that about ARC
By:
jimnast
When: 03 May 23 17:48
Akajak

It was last winter they were happy with the way things went in the pandemic so requested if they could race behind closed doors,to be fair the request was turned down by the bha,so I suppose they get some things right.
By:
truehoncho
When: 03 May 23 18:39
But they did let Chelmsford race behind closed doors.
By:
formoftheace
When: 03 May 23 18:43
Racing and gambling will fall apart eventually……

Affordable checks are personal and certainly not for a cream cookie …..or any other howling flashing Pee…..imv
By:
jimnast
When: 03 May 23 18:57
What reason was given for that honcho?
By:
truehoncho
When: 03 May 23 19:11
Apparently Chelmsford had a prebooked wedding before they had the date for the meeting. Something along those lines Jimnast.
By:
jimnast
When: 03 May 23 19:15
Yes I do now vaguely remember it honcho,if a small northern trainer made a similar level of mistake that would be him finished for ever.
By:
liberator of the oppressed
When: 03 May 23 19:19
Has Harrington et al fundamentally let joe public down? No coming back now. I would have hoped the playing fields might heave been levelled restrictions over how much you can lose balanced out by people being able to get on for an adequate amount at prices offered no knockbacks minimum guaranteed for all. Me and you the guys in the street have been largely ignored by the very people who should be advocating for us. Make that shafted. Don't get me onto the financial consequences for racing.
By:
jimnast
When: 03 May 23 19:20
She has only just started letting Joe Public down
By:
liberator of the oppressed
When: 03 May 23 19:33
It has been on the slide for as long as I can remember Jimnast all as bad as each other. The committtteeee is it DCMS don't appear to grasp what they are making huge decisions about you get the odd grins making the front pages of the rags and indeed the RP we've all seen them and thought wow and a holier I know best however do they have a clue or a good enough clue. That geezer on Luck on Sunday said he had been invited offered to attend to illuminate some of our learned friends nothing zip all. **** and booze next then close relationships we are doomed and then highly likley a surtax on going to church.
By:
liberator of the oppressed
When: 04 May 23 07:08
After what Ronnie mentioned about financial checks in an earlier thread approaching epidemic levels are bookmakers ****less running scared of the GC and authorities or making up their own rules up or both.
By:
jimnast
When: 04 May 23 08:08
CrazyThose who break even will be the only ones left to bet as you can’t bet if you win and you can’t bet if you lose
By:
timberman
When: 04 May 23 09:43
Online slots & Roulette games should be banned, if you want to play those you physically should have to go to a casino and pay for the chips at the door.
By:
timberman
When: 04 May 23 09:46
Back in the day when people could only have a punt on horses and dogs when you had no online these venues were very well attended and great banter and crack was had a lot of the time . On top of that everyone had a knowledge of horses and dogs for punting purposes where as now people lose all their money on online slots/roulette or cartoon racing at any hour of the day on their own on their phone or laptop!
By:
formoftheace
When: 04 May 23 12:15
timberman 04 May 23 09:43 
Online slots & Roulette games should be banned, if you want to play those you physically should have to go to a casino and pay for the chips at the door.

Exactly……
By:
rothko
When: 04 May 23 15:59
addiction is about the individual not the product
someone with an addictive personality would find something else to satisfy that addiction so banning online casino games is not the answer
By:
dambuster
When: 04 May 23 16:42

May 4, 2023 -- 3:59PM, rothko wrote:


addiction is about the individual not the productsomeone with an addictive personality would find something else to satisfy that addiction so banning online casino games is not the answer


from someone who had addicts in there family, that is 10000000% true

By:
mitolo
When: 04 May 23 17:39
those with drink and gambling problems who struggle with anger management arent going to like this
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