Hills fined £19 million!!!

Do the governments interfere with young people spending 12 hours plus a day on internet games when there brains should be learning and developing?

This is exactly what i am trying to say jimnast.in two years time everyone's brain will be a watch that we all wear on our wrist,if you want to know something or do something you will ask your watch for permission or advice.
did you get your Nanny watch yet?

I won’t be having one brassneck to old now for been told what to do.

On radio four earlier (Ian Duncan-Smith interview), the correspondent said some of these losses occurred in WH high street betting shops. Surely not?

For those saying the fine is not very much, I had a look at their 2021 Annual Report (as the offences appear to relate to that period) and they reported £80.3m of EBITDA and an operating profit of £57.3m, so £19.4m is a chunky fraction of that.

The scum were more than capable of limiting me after I won a grand.

On the BBC 6' o clock news now

Do the barstewards who take or authorised the bets get a commission? If so, the barsteward could be earning as much as Dettori at Meydan very recently. And, there's no risk eg barsteward has no horse to fall-off from.

19 million…..probably more in the pantry……one week to recover…..

i got barred today from a betfred shop in horsham , the manager had turned off all the screens after  i arrived ,he then said are u going to have a bet ? i said thats eff all to do with you , he then said you came in here last month and watched the racing for 90 mins and didnt have a bet ( it was 45 mins ) so i basically told him what i thought and got barred hahaha , so basically dont come in here unless u are gonna bet

£5 mil less Corporation Tax to pay. So in reality it is £14m.

Instead of swearing at him why didn’t you just reply possibly?

I'd not visited a bookie until just very recently when I needed the loo. On the 1st I'd to approach the service counter for permission to be buzzed in; 2nd, funnily enough in a 'freddie' in Carshalton, I walked straight in as the door was opened. Then the manager asked if I'd shut it as I was walking towards the exit.

Is the above the common protocol for every bookie eg ask permission to use; shut door after use?

jimnast im an honest person , i wasnt going to have a bet so why lie ? i used this betting shop twice this year as i travel all over the southeast , perhaps as the shop was empty at 1330 he felt pissed off as him and his assistant are looking at a bleak future in that industry

nobody ever seems to mention the companies the produce online gaming slots etc. all games constructed by the magic 'random number generator'. this allows them to write their own cheques.
instead of investigating this corruption, they go after the sports bettor who at least has a chance.

amazing wont even take a quid each way off a pensioner.

The bookies have lost the spirit to take bets. They are too comatosed by fobt, and anything requiring skill is off their IQ level. I hope high street bookies with fobt will be issued with a new licence to trade soon to reflect the digital age. Similarly, online ones. On-course bookies can carry on as they are , accepting cash and card.

the advent of the fobt allowed them to go full-bore mugs only.  anyone demonstrating an iota of nous would no longer be accommodated.  at which point their licence to provide bookmaking services should've been revoked.  a new licence to act as an amusement arcade issued and taxed accordingly.

Theyve got £500 of my money they refused to hand back to me to put towards the fine.

They've been letting me win on their promo games eg Bonus Drop/Free Spins incessantly for the last few weeks every time. Until then I could not remember my last win. The promo games are definitely bent!

Their Algos ignore losers (profitable to the bookies) and only hunt anyone who has made over £100 profit in a lifetime or shows any skill in picking a winner.
The you are restricted to about £1 on a 3/1 chance.
If you win in their betting shops they will 'offer' you SP only.They only accommodate losers and addicts on the machines.
The Toothless UK Gambling commission proved once again they are not fit for purpose and should be closed down.
They had the chance to suspend WH license and just did nothing and after
timed by saying we thought about it.
They are and always will be the CHOCOLATE TEAPOT or for the old school THE CHOCOLATE FIREGUARD.

Mar 28, 2023 -- 7:39AM, hulk23 wrote:

scum

Well said

Serious question

If there license was suspended what would happen to people’s funds and anti post bets/current bets.

Mar 29, 2023 -- 8:07AM, jimnast wrote:

Serious question If there license was suspended what would happen to people’s funds and anti post bets/current bets.

Will never happen. Casinos are more powerful than the GC.

"anti" = ante

BBC news certainly giving this an inordinate amount of coverage.Another one of their hidden agendas,of course.

The Bible."He that is without sin among you,let him first cast a stone at her"

Remember, William Hill is owned by 888 now. The threat of taking the licence away is just Words. There is literally zero chance of this happening. Put it this way, their lawyers wouldn't let it happen either. And if  the threat was there, money would change hands to stop that....

Dg

Lack of a education and poor spelling hasn’t so far affected the great life I have had ,however as it clearly concerns you I will keep of any threads you start or post on.

*keep off

and to answer your question - they can just void the anteposts like betbright did untl rich ricci got a bad press. If they close down, then your money can be claimed by the creditors unless a company is one of the few that holds cash in a trust.

The suicide rate has fallen by about a third since the Eighties.

Comparing the 1950s to 1960s when betting shops were legalised, the suicide rate remained unchanged

nobody's committing suicide because of the geegees.  get rid of the crack cocaine fobt's and casino

bookies did fine between 1961 & 1999 without any of the fobt and casino sh!tshow.

Interesting words from the " Star Sports " lawyer during their court case ....


Star Sports is contesting the claim, with the company’s lawyers denying that the wealthy punter revealed that he had a problem. They insisted that “there is no general duty of care on a bookmaker to protect a gambling addict from the consequences of his addiction”.

That's that sorted then ..

Mar 29, 2023 -- 11:59PM, hulk23 wrote:

nobody's committing suicide because of the geegees.

We don't know why.  No study has ever been undertaken and published AFAIK.  Probably never will seeing as detail and understanding doesn't seem to be government or regulation body's strong point.

When the BBC covered this story they made a point of saying the fine was ONLY 1% of turnover.  That was deliberately misleading, trying to seed in the public consciousness that is profit and bookies make billions.  It's a clear message that the agenda is really an attack on gambling as a pastime.  If they were giving an honest assessment they would be relating the fine to profit and not turnover.  Most bookies go bust I reckon.

Glasgow, I think your're on to something there.  If Star Sports can win this case on the basis of that quote, then it will be regarded as a "test case" and will become de facto law and we will be able to gamble to our hearts content in the future!

If a heavy drinker dies of heart failure or liver disease in his 50s that doesn't mean his local boozer is liable.

The GC fines are due to lack of affordability and source of funds for stolen money checks, not to do with addiction.  I don't know the details of the SS case, but I imagine the claimant could well afford to lose.

I can understand people glad to see the bookies get a bloody nose with these fines, but who is ultimately going to pay for it is punters, with worse value, less choice and personal intrusion.

If you can't see any link between addiction and affordability - for your own protection, you probably shouldn't be allowed access to a keyboard. Or are you Lee Mottershead?

Or maybe you think that while William Hill were deliberately and proactively breaking the law, all of the addicts that were betting with them during that period were betting within their means.

Drink is a good analogy, but smoking better.

Yeah, drinking and smoking are very similar in that they are barely regulated at all and/or have been permitted to regulate themselves for the past 20 years!

Powerful lobbying.

You're not wrong!

These are my principles - but if you don't like them, I have other ones that you can buy.

Mar 30, 2023 -- 2:42PM, The Management wrote:

If you can't see any link between addiction and affordability - for your own protection, you probably shouldn't be allowed access to a keyboard. Or are you Lee Mottershead?

I never said there wasn't a link.  Of course there's a link.

CLYDEBANK2930 Mar 23 14:19Joined: 10 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 12,087 | Blogger: CLYDEBANK29's blog
The GC fines are due to lack of affordability and source of funds for stolen money checks, not to do with addiction.

I suggest you read the facts and think again:

The punishment, which eclipses the £17m action taken against Ladbrokes and Coral owner Entain last August, came after social responsibility and anti-money laundering (AML) failures described as "widespread and alarming" by the commission's chief executive Andrew Rhodes.

Among the examples of bad practice cited by the Gambling Commission were customers being able to open accounts and spend £23,000 in 20 minutes, £18,000 in 24 hours, and £32,500 over two days respectively, all without checks being made.

The commission also found customers able to deposit large amounts without being subject to AML checks, with one able to spend and lose £70,134 in a month, another to lose £38,000 in five weeks and another to lose £36,000 in four days.

I'd suggest you re read it!

What used to be one of the greatest bookmakers in the world - and we've long since passed the point where by definition if you still have an active account with them you must be a loser or an addict.

And you are making excuses on their behalf. Sad times.

Do you really think the GC would fine Hills for letting JP McManus lose 70k in a month?  Of course not.  The social responsibility fines are given over one's ability to afford the losses.  It says in black and white the fines were over checks.

Racing post (on behalf of the online casinos, like William Hill) trying to convince you that the communists have taken over because some little old boy has been restricted to £100/month deposit.

In reality for the last 20 years - so long as you are a degenerate loser or an addict you can deposit £70k and lose it on slots/casino games in a week. Meanwhile if they haven't profiled you as a degenerate losing addict, you can't have £5 each way at 7/2.

That is the reality - and it's good to see them squealing, now it's coming back to bite them.

My wife won about £10k off B365 and WH before being closed down fwiw.  The WH account lasted 5 years (only closed last Summer), B365 lasted about 6 months.  And the WH account was only closed because she did someat stupid.  Other bookies were far worse.  So I can kind of see why WH got a record fine

I find that very hard to believe CB, unless it was a lucky/lottery style bet (multiples) or it was a good while ago, before they started only operating a sportsbook as a gateway to their wheels & reels.

For at least 5 years now (specifically WH) will close down any new account that doesn't profile well for them after about a week.

That noise you can hear when you go to their website, it's hard to tell if it's the sound of William Hill turning in his grave or the sound of the reels spinning on the Lucky Clover Leprechaun Riches.

No there wasn't one lucky bet.

She did play the slots for small money occasionally as a diversion

I suspect since WH were bought by 888sport it's got a whole lot worse

there's been a sea change generally post COVID

I'm just making the point that it won't be the "communists" or the "do-gooders" that destroy gambling (as the Racing Post would have you believe) - it will be the "bookmakers" and their (understandable) obsession with gaming.

Which coincides with the GC fines also.  Like I said, it's punters who pay.

Mar 30, 2023 -- 4:11PM, The Management wrote:

I'm just making the point that it won't be the "communists" or the "do-gooders" that destroy gambling (as the Racing Post would have you believe) - it will be the "bookmakers" and their (understandable) obsession with gaming.

It's both, not either or.

They have been doing the stuff that (finally) got them fined for nearly 20 years. Punters paid the price a long time ago imo. Assuming by "punters" you mean people that used to like a bet on actual/real events.

I know they didn't kill themselves, but Merson and Shilton were sports bettors not fruit loopers.  Shilton was mainly on the exchange I think.

Agreed - proper old school degenerates betting on anything that moved - but in the "new world" of 24/7 gaming, for every Shilton, there are now 50 young people (and for the first time) huge numbers of females that have been profiled as likely addicts.

I'm not disputing things for punters were worse 5 years ago than 10 years ago and 10 years ago than 15 years ago.  But they are significantly worse now than 5 years ago, and that is primarily down to ACs imo.

Mar 30, 2023 -- 4:25PM, The Management wrote:

Agreed - proper old school degenerates betting on anything that moved - but in the "new world" of 24/7 gaming, for every Shilton, there are now 50 young people (and for the first time) huge numbers of females that have been profiled as likely addicts.

Is there a published study on this?

Or is it a seed published without fact, that is repeated often enough that people start to believe as fact?

Off to do some food shopping

It's hard to tell imo. If bookmakers had been doing what they were supposed to be doing for the past 20 years (i.e. complying with the existing law rather than proactively breaking it), I don't think gaming would have been so lucrative for them. I also don't think anybody would be campaigning for AC's if bookmakers had complied with the existing laws for the past 20 years.

I still think it's a storm in a tea-cup to be honest. The only valid argument comparing betting with alcohol is that the govt can't afford for us all to give it up! So I have been very confident all along that whatever transpires will probably be light touch and fairly ineffective.

Cheers.

This is not a difficult issue to address. For a start ban all forms of advertising online, tv and mobile. In addition issue every online bookies and high street bookies with fobt (not sports) with a new gaming licence (not betting). Any incursion or sharp practice could result in a suspension of trading immediately.

I hope the Gambling Commission stop ****-footing about with bookies. They must start behaving like a regulator and monitor the bookies like a hawk. Any small woeful incursion against a new Betting and Gaming Act must be punished effectively eg a rescinding or suspension of license to trade immediately - no probation.

Also, a cull of bookies is necessary. There are far too many around and a blot on the landscape of most towns.

CLYDEBANK29 30 Mar 23 16:29 
Off to do some food shopping

PMSL

Just can’t be @rsed talking to the b@ll sack anymore……

f4rty - Shouldn't you be in a betting shop somewhere, stinking of p1ss, throwing pens at the screens and shouting "it's all bent"?

No…don’t be silly….ffs

Never once blew a gasket regarding a result…..I leave it to the silly people……

Any small woeful incursion against a new Betting and Gaming Act must be punished effectively eg a rescinding or suspension of license to trade immediately - no probation.

They can do this now, they don't need a new law. They can also restrict advertising under the current set up.

The question is why they don't and imo it is the government who restricts them as a matter of policy.

@TM

"for the first time huge numbers of females that have been profiled as likely addicts."

Bingo has been a thing for what, 50+ years?

Fair point longbridge - I should have specifically said on-line bingo where the "cross-selling" of slots is their sole strategy.

The government and regulators have had years to impose deposit limits which triggers AML checks, but have done nothing.  They didn't have to wait for the Gambling Act.  It didn't have to be set in stone, just an interim figure subject to re-evaluation.  If it's cash in the bank it's £5k I believe

My wife won about £10k off B365 and WH before being closed down fwiw.

well done to your "wife"  Clyde. 

when they closed 'her' account did you open one for your goldfish

I don't have a goldfish

If one gambles in isolation and seclusion in one's comfort environment away from the distractions of others eg noise and machines one is bound to be away with the fairy and lost track of time and money staked. This scenario is easily replicated with the addiction to alcohol and illegal substance eg drinking and doping in solitary and isolation will speed up addiction and dependence.

I'm not advocating prohibition but strict policing to ensure bookies stay within the terms and conditions of licence and social responsibility.

We have a Government that doesn't want to act and is in any event clueless (no surprise there). We have a Gambling Commission that is in many ways clueless. As has been stated elsewhere in the thread and an addition or two of my own:
1. Ban advertising of ALL online gambling products including the utterly pathetic "We help you to control your gambling by .....".
2. Limit other advertising to a factual statement of events on which bets are accepted and the relevant odds on offer
3. Ban FOBTs. Simple. They are addictive to certain people. We can't tell which people until the addiction becomes apparent but it is at least 80% of betting shop FOBT users. Just watch them: unresponsive to the rest of their surroundings, unaware of how much it is costing them, probably low intelligence. Sound familiar?
4. Ban all online slots, bingo etc. The excuse given for the old bingo halls (and probably accurate) was "it's an important social event for many". You don't have social online slots and bingo. Online betting is restricted to bookmaker account holders (who are subject to usual safeguards).

Gambling commission ffs what a joke….

What happened to the Starsports chancer ?

What  ?  The multi millionaire chancer. ?



  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11915901/Millionaire-sues-West-End-...

Cant believe he was even able to get it into a courtroom. 1.01 he gets nothing apart from being laughed at.

Apr 1, 2023 -- 12:03PM, now wheres that switch!!! wrote:

Cant believe he was even able to get it into a courtroom. 1.01 he gets nothing apart from being laughed at.

Agree

You have to admire him for this imo - " his paper recycling business - Pulp Friction"

i saw that

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/business-of-sport/arid-41110522.html

Gambling companies and lobbyists have increased the amount they spend on MPs tenfold in five years, according to Guardian analysis that shows how the industry has become one of the best connected sectors in Westminster.

Data from publicly available parliamentary records show that dozens of Labour and Conservative MPs have received thousands of pounds’ worth of corporate hospitality in the past few years, paid for by some of the country’s biggest betting companies.

The analysis, which follows reports that the Conservative MP Scott Benton offered to lobby ministers on behalf of the industry for money, shows that the sector now spends tens of thousands of pounds a year, mainly on sports tickets for MPs. The figure is likely to be even higher than reported, as anything worth less than £300 does not have to be declared.

The figures have sparked concern among some in parliament that the gambling industry now has too much political power, especially as the government prepares to publish its gambling white paper.


Carolyn Harris, the Labour MP for Swansea East and a campaigner for more regulation of gambling, said the industry’s deep pockets and fondness for treating MPs were very obvious in and around parliament.

“If you go to the bar, you will probably see somebody from that industry, and they’re buying people drinks,” she said. “They attract people with offers to go to things that ordinary people would never get access to, like the Brits, or to watch Manchester United in the hospitality section.

There are certain times you can have a conversation with someone from an industry, and then you go off and make an independent decision, and that’s how it works. But what happens with this industry is, why do people have to keep on being convinced so many times? Some people take the hospitality time and time again.

“They do this because they’re terrified of regulation. They have grown beyond even their own expectations, but it’s an industry where 10% of the customers make 60% of the profits. They want to protect what they have.”

Earlier this week, the Times revealed that its reporters had captured undercover footage of Benton, the MP for Blackpool South, promising to “call in favours” from colleagues and offer “easy access” to ministers in return for £4,000 from a fake gambling company.

Benton, who has been suspended from the parliamentary Conservative party and has referred himself to the parliamentary standards commissioner, is one of dozens of MPs who have accepted large amounts of corporate hospitality from the industry in recent years.

On Thursday the Times released a second video showing Benton advising the undercover reporters to list tickets as being worth just less than £300 so as to avoid having to be declared. He told them: “Without saying too much, you’d be amazed at the number of times I’ve been to races and the ticket comes to £295.”

The Guardian’s analysis shows that in 2019 the biggest gambling companies and lobbyists spent just less than £8,000 on paying for tickets to events for six MPs and their friends and families. One of the biggest recipients was the Conservative MP Laurence Robertson, who accepted thousands of pounds’ worth of tickets and hospitality from William Hill and Coral, including a day out at Doncaster races for him, his wife and a member of staff.

By 2021, however, it had risen to 25 MPs, and the industry spent £114,000.

Almost all of that went on paying for tickets and corporate hospitality at sporting and musical events for MPs. That year Benton accepted nearly £6,000 worth of tickets to racing, tennis and football events. He was one of a dozen Tory and Labour MPs who were given tickets and corporate hospitality worth nearly £3,500 each to the Euro 2020 semi-final between England and Denmark.

In 2022, the industry gave 36 MPs a total of about £87,000 worth of tickets and corporate entertainment to events, including racing, football and rugby. The Betting and Gaming Council (BGC) spent nearly £7,000 taking four MPs – including Benton and Robertson – to the Brit awards, and another £4,000 taking five MPs to an Ed Sheeran concert.

So far in 2023, the industry has spent just over £13,000 on entertaining and paying MPs – all of which has come from the BGC.

The BGC, a large and well-connected industry organisation led by the former Labour MP Michael Dugher, has increasingly become the source of the spending in the past few years, with individual companies offering less and less.

The organisation has been a powerful voice feeding into the government’s wide-ranging gambling review, which according to a report in the Sun is likely to recommend a maximum limit to how much gamblers can spend during each go on an online slot machine.

Throughout the review process, the council has pushed for a narrower definition of “gambling harm”, telling MPs on the culture, media and sport select committee: “The current debate has resulted in a large amount of misinformation around the prevalence of gambling-related harm, including by extending its definition.”

The BGC’s main voice in parliament is Laurence Robertson, who is paid £2,000 a month to act as its parliamentary adviser on sport and safer gambling. In an article on the BGC’s website, Robertson argues: “Too often it is the negative and inaccurate messages [about the betting sector] which are those heard most loudly.”

A spokesperson for the BGC said it represented an industry supporting 110,000 jobs, and as such “we routinely engage with parliamentarians – and of course we often do this in conjunction with sports like racing and football, where the betting industry has a close and historic relationship.”

It was vital for the organisation to engage with MPs amid the government review into gambling regulation, the spokesperson said, adding: “There is no suggestion of any wrongdoing whatsoever by the BGC or our members. All hospitality is declared in strict accordance with the rules.”

impossible said: If one gambles in isolation and seclusion in one's comfort environment away from the distractions of others eg noise and machines one is bound to be away with the fairy and lost track of time and money staked
To me that sounds like a good strategy; having no distractions like the Pinball Wizard.
To quote the famous song by Pete Townshend:
What makes him so good?
Ain't got no distractions
Can't hear no buzzers and bells
Don't see no lights a-flashin'
Plays by sense of smell

Fobt belong in casinos not any high street betting shop. If there was a will to stop addiction to fobt - the crack cocaine of gambling - the addiction to fobt would have been minimal or history.

I believe councils ask fast food chains or takeaways to pay to clean up their litter outside their premises. Why bookies not been asked to do the same?

I'll ban every form of betting/gaming in the media or mobile. And, the principals on terrestrial tv eg horseracing/football presenters/pundits must not be allowed to advertise for bookies, I firmly believe.

Another bookie fined for not instigating measures on anti-money laundering (AML) eg a customer placed 1375 bets losing £19k with card declined yet 'baddie' did not initiate AML; another lost £72k over 9 months; £120k over 11 months; £61k over 4 months.

For the above 'baddie' was only punished with a £3.25m penalty after 'baddie' accepted the findings, and implemented actions to address possible future occurrence. How pathetic is that? Where does the Gambling Commission think money for the fine was gained? How can irresponsible/problem gambling and addiction be tackled successfully if such lenient action taken on a bookie worth £bns?

Unless a suspension of trading is issued as a precedent bookies will continue the same business strategy to maximist gain.

The Gambling Commission is toothless, irresponsible and pathetic. Billies were fined over £19m; Star Sports £600k; Baddie £3.25m.

It pays for the bookies to violate AML!

get ready for 200 million plus fine entain ladbrokes for the goings on in turkey which is why the share price is low atm

Know All.The way the blond bird is spending  money there will be nothing  left to pay the fine.Hope you are well.

Will not lay me a bean.

if it goes too much lower i might be tempted ronnie, as the forecast fine 200m-240m is priced in already imo,but its all a gamble, it will get to where it was before but when that is who knows, need takeover

Was that not why the owner of 2x former Champion Hurdle mare surprised exit from Entain before he was forced out by regulator for the dodgy dealing in Turkey? This same character tried just recently with a few of his cronies to get onboard of 888 - owner of billies - on the cheap but got severely rebuffed/reprimanded by regulator possibly for his yet undealt with unsavoury Turkey business practice.

Some people think they can merely jump ship after a business sharp practice in another country before being sanctioned then reappeared on the bandwagon of another as if all has been forgotten.

I hope Entain is fined a record sum for their unsavoury business practice in Turkey.