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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2002/sep/26/horseracing.gregwood
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Ban for odds computer programs after punter bonanza 
@Greg_Wood_
Thu 26 Sep 2002 20.44 BST
Betfair, the internet's largest betting exchange, is expected to ban the use of automatic trading programs - known as bots - on its website, following a system crash that kept the site offline for two hours on Tuesday afternoon.
The crash has highlighted a practice that has been going on for several months, much to the surprise of the vast majority of Betfair's regular clients, with one punter claiming that his computer program has made him hundreds of thousands of pounds.
A bot is a computer program that can access a website and strike or lay bets, just as any human punter can. Unlike a regular punter, though, it does not need to eat, drink or sleep, and can request a web page several times a second.
About a dozen Betfair clients are thought to have been using bots to scan the site for chances to bet overbroke, or otherwise gain a guaranteed edge on other users. They will now be warned to switch off their bots, or be banned from using Betfair's site.
A Betfair spokesman said yesterday that Tuesday's problems were not caused directly by the use of bots on their site. However, the fact that a number of the programs were attempting to access Betfair dozens of times a second, while technicians were struggling to get it online, meant that the site was unavailable for much longer than would otherwise have been the case.
The program responsible is believed to have been written by a Betfair user who regularly posts messages in the site's users' forum under the name "Gary". Although his claims are difficult to verify, he has stated that his bot has won him hundreds of thousands of pounds in recent months. He is also thought to have passed on his program to several other punters in recent weeks, increasing the strain on Betfair's servers.
There are several ways in which a bot can suck the value from a robust and vibrant market such as Betfair. It is possible, for instance, to write a program that scans active markets looking for one that is momentarily "overbroke", allowing it to back every runner to return a small, but guaranteed, profit. The bot places the required bets automatically and instantly, and moves on to look for its next opportunity.
Others can be programmed to notice obvious mistakes - a punter, say, who has tried to offer a horse at 2.0 in Betfair's digital odds system, and offered 2.2 instead. A bot could also be set up to back and lay consistently around a given price. Backing at 2.6 and then laying at 2.4, over and over again, would soon try the patience of most human punters, but a computer program does not get bored.
"The result tends to be that there are lots and lots of very small bets going through, which are a pain for everybody concerned," Mark Davies, Betfair's spokesman, said yesterday. "And when we have a problem like we did on Tuesday, the program just keeps on trying to trade, asking the database questions which it is not in a position to answer. We're getting in touch with the account holders in question, and we would expect to make a statement on Friday morning."
The bots are not merely a technical problem for Betfair. The site's image, as a place where punter meets punter in a battle of judgment and wits, is among its biggest selling points. A perception that its clients might in fact be taking on a bank of computers, or that it is pointless looking for serious value because a bot will always get there first, would be damaging.
One problem for Betfair, though, is that a well-written bot will appear to be just another client logging on to the site. To be certain that no-one is using a bot, it may be necessary to study access and betting patterns over several days, or even weeks.
"Depending on how well written a bot is, and if it doesn't hit the hell out of the server, it may be almost impossible to block it," said Glyn Wintle, chief technical officer of backandlay.com, an exchange which is due to launch in the next few months.
"Over time, you can be pretty sure when someone's using a bot, but if someone's got a well-written program that means they can't lose, they'll probably think it's stupid not to run it."
@Greg_Wood_
Thu 26 Sep 2002 20.44 BST
Betfair, the internet's largest betting exchange, is expected to ban the use of automatic trading programs - known as bots - on its website, following a system crash that kept the site offline for two hours on Tuesday afternoon.
The crash has highlighted a practice that has been going on for several months, much to the surprise of the vast majority of Betfair's regular clients, with one punter claiming that his computer program has made him hundreds of thousands of pounds.
A bot is a computer program that can access a website and strike or lay bets, just as any human punter can. Unlike a regular punter, though, it does not need to eat, drink or sleep, and can request a web page several times a second.
About a dozen Betfair clients are thought to have been using bots to scan the site for chances to bet overbroke, or otherwise gain a guaranteed edge on other users. They will now be warned to switch off their bots, or be banned from using Betfair's site.
A Betfair spokesman said yesterday that Tuesday's problems were not caused directly by the use of bots on their site. However, the fact that a number of the programs were attempting to access Betfair dozens of times a second, while technicians were struggling to get it online, meant that the site was unavailable for much longer than would otherwise have been the case.
The program responsible is believed to have been written by a Betfair user who regularly posts messages in the site's users' forum under the name "Gary". Although his claims are difficult to verify, he has stated that his bot has won him hundreds of thousands of pounds in recent months. He is also thought to have passed on his program to several other punters in recent weeks, increasing the strain on Betfair's servers.
There are several ways in which a bot can suck the value from a robust and vibrant market such as Betfair. It is possible, for instance, to write a program that scans active markets looking for one that is momentarily "overbroke", allowing it to back every runner to return a small, but guaranteed, profit. The bot places the required bets automatically and instantly, and moves on to look for its next opportunity.
Others can be programmed to notice obvious mistakes - a punter, say, who has tried to offer a horse at 2.0 in Betfair's digital odds system, and offered 2.2 instead. A bot could also be set up to back and lay consistently around a given price. Backing at 2.6 and then laying at 2.4, over and over again, would soon try the patience of most human punters, but a computer program does not get bored.
"The result tends to be that there are lots and lots of very small bets going through, which are a pain for everybody concerned," Mark Davies, Betfair's spokesman, said yesterday. "And when we have a problem like we did on Tuesday, the program just keeps on trying to trade, asking the database questions which it is not in a position to answer. We're getting in touch with the account holders in question, and we would expect to make a statement on Friday morning."
The bots are not merely a technical problem for Betfair. The site's image, as a place where punter meets punter in a battle of judgment and wits, is among its biggest selling points. A perception that its clients might in fact be taking on a bank of computers, or that it is pointless looking for serious value because a bot will always get there first, would be damaging.
One problem for Betfair, though, is that a well-written bot will appear to be just another client logging on to the site. To be certain that no-one is using a bot, it may be necessary to study access and betting patterns over several days, or even weeks.
"Depending on how well written a bot is, and if it doesn't hit the hell out of the server, it may be almost impossible to block it," said Glyn Wintle, chief technical officer of backandlay.com, an exchange which is due to launch in the next few months.
"Over time, you can be pretty sure when someone's using a bot, but if someone's got a well-written program that means they can't lose, they'll probably think it's stupid not to run it."
Is there a purpose in bringing this back up sparrow? Surely you're not suggesting that bots are still in use on betfair are you!
A historical purpose stewarts highlighting the change of attitudes following changes of management.
Any bot user will be banned.
3 months later we've got ours up and running.
6 months later you can buy ours.
Different world 20 year ago.
3 months later we've got ours up and running.
6 months later you can buy ours.
Different world 20 year ago.
a Betfair user who regularly posts messages in the site's users' forum under the name "Gary".....he has stated that his bot has won him hundreds of thousands of pounds in recent months. He is also thought to have passed on his program to several other punters in recent weeks, increasing the strain on Betfair's servers.
gary sounds shrood
gary sounds shrood
I *thought* (and this is long before my time) that this was the driver behind BF creating their Public API?
Having 'bots hitting the website intended for human interaction is expensive to BF as the 'bots can hit the website many times faster than humans can, and force BF to serve lots of data (pretty colours, headers, layout, menus) that the 'bot doubtless discards.
The API just serves the data (prices etc) that machines can read.
And while this is the Racing Forum, if you look at something like Football with dozens of markets on every game, it is inconceivable that they could be kept priced up and liquid in-play if there were not sophisticated punters running automated trading strategies (aka 'bots) against them - and who wants empty or illiquid markets?
Having 'bots hitting the website intended for human interaction is expensive to BF as the 'bots can hit the website many times faster than humans can, and force BF to serve lots of data (pretty colours, headers, layout, menus) that the 'bot doubtless discards.
The API just serves the data (prices etc) that machines can read.
And while this is the Racing Forum, if you look at something like Football with dozens of markets on every game, it is inconceivable that they could be kept priced up and liquid in-play if there were not sophisticated punters running automated trading strategies (aka 'bots) against them - and who wants empty or illiquid markets?
youd think they would keep it to themselves be a few sick today they have been exposed
sparrow -
You missed a 'Golden Chance' there ...
Had you waited just A WEEK to start this Thread - Then ...
You would have had 'a Pearler' - for - April Fools Day.
You missed a 'Golden Chance' there ...
Had you waited just A WEEK to start this Thread - Then ...
You would have had 'a Pearler' - for - April Fools Day.
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