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Trained in England....
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If they stayed on in Britain, they'd become British-trained then, workrider!
I was taking your question literally: why would you have a horse trained in England? And there's your answer. According to Cropsick's figures, the owners of 21 horses trained in Ireland paid the bills to cross the Irish Sea today, and they didn't even get placed.
I was taking your question literally: why would you have a horse trained in England? And there's your answer. According to Cropsick's figures, the owners of 21 horses trained in Ireland paid the bills to cross the Irish Sea today, and they didn't even get placed.
Yes but most of them finished in FRONT of their English opponents who cost MORE to train and who are now shown to be useless...
Are you pizzed workrider? certainly spouting a lot of nonsense
I can't say I've ever been a fan of Willie Mullins, ever since his behaviour over Be My Royal. I mean, fancy being the connections of Gingembre, and Mullins is still there in the High Court, three years later, trying to deprive you of your Hennessy winner. But I thought his reaction to State Man's defeat today was class:
"We ran very well, we've just met a proper champion hurdler so we've no excuses," he said. "Well done to Nicky and Michael and all the team. Nico gave him a brave man's ride, he had the confidence he was on the best horse and that was the race he rode – I'm delighted for all connections."
"We ran very well, we've just met a proper champion hurdler so we've no excuses," he said. "Well done to Nicky and Michael and all the team. Nico gave him a brave man's ride, he had the confidence he was on the best horse and that was the race he rode – I'm delighted for all connections."
Don't forget the 2000 or so trained in Ireland than win f all when they could finish in the first three every time they run in GB. If you think you have a champion, then send it to Ireland but how much would Tahmuras have won in Ireland? Probably one maiden hurdle. In England he won the Grade 1 Tolworth.
... in which the second fav was sent over by H de Bromhead, and was pulled up.
Having your horse trained in Ireland isn't a completely foolproof system.
Having your horse trained in Ireland isn't a completely foolproof system.
Good point screaming. We used to be told that travelling to another country was a negative for horses which is the excuse used by many GB trainers swerving Irish races but it does not seem to stop Mullins and co. sweeping the board year after year.
Morning all great to see a bit of banter from posters , sure what would this game be if we didn't have a opinion . Have a brilliant day and back plenty of winners...
Scottish trainers have a better winning % at Cheltenham than the Irish Workrider.
Still plenty of Saturday tv money to win
But Irish on jungle juice’s another level
Love to know fees difference ??
But Irish on jungle juice’s another level
Love to know fees difference ??
Like the mare in next but what’s ducking point
She gets her weight
But she need stone ffs against the Irish
She gets her weight
But she need stone ffs against the Irish
If that was 3m 80.25 yards Irish jolly wins
Fast and slow colours both been done on nut
But it seems to be the ability to get them a stone better in March. Energumene beaten into third by the same horses last time.
Yeah, not sure the ground difference is that much either. But the money talked.
Sageform , I believe its simply because we have better and more competitive racing...
we all no irish horses better hard to beat/at least some in every handicap well treated
harry cobbden held 2 up yesterday last a distance behind the leaders
their good enough without giving them a distance start
harry cobbden held 2 up yesterday last a distance behind the leaders
their good enough without giving them a distance start
Yes. And we have too many races and racecourses to ever be able to do anything about it. GB trainers should send more horses to run in Ireland, but they'd effectively be sacrificing them for the first 3-5 years, so no one will.
If you backed every Irish trained horse that ran in the UK - you would be skint.
a couple of Irish trainers buying in horses from France for a few rich guys. Not sure how great that is for Irish racing.
Mullins had 10 of the runners in the last. Getting Ridiculous.
Very soon no English trainers will bother with Cheltenham.
Very soon no English trainers will bother with Cheltenham.
A. T. Plenty of English trainers have bought them as well for huge money ask Paul , thing is they don't know how to train them..
Really I thought they found tons of them one day in a certain Newmarket yard...
curious quote from Tony McCoy
"I think it's competition," said McCoy on ITV Racing. "I went to Jim Bolger's as an apprentice and you'd Christy Roche, Kevin Manning, Willie Supple, Ted Durcan, Seamie Heffernan and Paul Carberry there.
"I hated it at the time but they definitely made me better. I think the competition in Ireland is stronger, it's more competitive and it's not as diluted, and that's why they're dominating."
do you think he knows it's horses that do the running?
"I think it's competition," said McCoy on ITV Racing. "I went to Jim Bolger's as an apprentice and you'd Christy Roche, Kevin Manning, Willie Supple, Ted Durcan, Seamie Heffernan and Paul Carberry there.
"I hated it at the time but they definitely made me better. I think the competition in Ireland is stronger, it's more competitive and it's not as diluted, and that's why they're dominating."
do you think he knows it's horses that do the running?
I think he was giving an example. But there's stiff competition for all aspects - trainers, jockeys, horses, workriders, ... It all adds up.
he's talking rubbish - that was 30 years ago when the Irish would get perhaps 5 winners each festival. It's only in the last 10 years when the numbers have jumped.
there's 2 trainers mopping up who have a few owners with very deep pockets. you might as well say Ballydoyle's success is down to strong competition.
there's 2 trainers mopping up who have a few owners with very deep pockets. you might as well say Ballydoyle's success is down to strong competition.
I have to disagree with you, at least in part. I think one of the main reasons for the Irish success, especially at the novice level, is that the horses have been battle hardened by running against other good horses in Ireland, which does not happen very much in GB. GB-trained horses do better by the time they get to open races (at least relatively) because by then they have been matured through more competitive racing.
There are two dominant trainers in Ireland yes, but there is a very good supporting cast with the likes of Harrington, Cromwell, Meade, de Bromhead, and others. Meanwhile, Mullins at least runs several of his good horses against each other in big races, which appears to help them.
There are two dominant trainers in Ireland yes, but there is a very good supporting cast with the likes of Harrington, Cromwell, Meade, de Bromhead, and others. Meanwhile, Mullins at least runs several of his good horses against each other in big races, which appears to help them.
When did Ch start the 'irish village' thing for the stable staff + making stabling a horse for the festival much better for all - I'm thinking its about 10-15 years back? Obv its not the only factor but it 's never mentioned and could be the small % that make a bit of a difference, 3,4 winners a year and plenty of placed maybe. I bet Mullins wouldn't't send as many darts over if the stabling was as pre 2000!
When you combine it with the money, which has been the catalyst, yes. When Ireland got rich, bloodstock started staying in Ireland rather than being sold to GB. Much of the best French bloodstock cane to GB 15 years ago, now it it sold to Ireland. I do agree with you that a lot of Ireland's success in NH racing stems from having a few owners with very deep pockets, but the whole cycle is mutually reenforcing - success breeds success, to put it simply. It's built upon a deep (human) talent base. And it's notable that quite a few of those rich owners are based in GB (e.g. the Riccis, Kenny Alexander), but they choose to have their horses trained in Ireland.
it's just Mullins, Elliot and to a lesser extent De Bromhead backed by billionaire owners buying up the French-breds - winning more races and prize money in Ireland than all the rest put together. Take them out and there's no strength in depth in Irish NH racing which there would be if McCoy's "strong competition" theory held true.
But there is substantial competition within and between those yards, as well as with the secondary but high-quality yards. Look at the DRF - Mullins had 5+ runners in several of the Grade 1s. Several were won by stable second/third strings. 5-10 years ago Mullins did used to shield his horses from others in his yard, but now, with a bigger & better operation and more big owners, he doesn't. Of course if one of those big yards should "stop" for any reason, it would leave an enormous hole.
If I can turn your point round, why do you think those billionaires spend their money on racing in Ireland rather than England?
If I can turn your point round, why do you think those billionaires spend their money on racing in Ireland rather than England?
That's a circular argument. They send their horses to Mullins, Elliot and De Bromhead.
If you are with a trainer in England you have to prey the rain stays away in Festival week a d that isn’t a likely thing to happen.
Aintree in April is a better place for ground normally for them.
McCoy was also talking about the jockeys as well as the trainers to be fair. It's been said many times but you've gone from Walsh and Geraghty riding for your two biggest trainers to Cobden and De Boinville. No problem when you're on horses like Constitution Hill but tactically they're way behind. Imop Johnny Burke would ride at least the same amount of winners for Nicholls as Cobden does and he had to leave Ireland as he wasn't good enough to make a real living off mounts in Ireland due to the competition. People laugh at the idea but plenty of big owners want their horses ridden by a top jockey which is another factor in why certain big name trainers don't get the horses they used to.
It's to do with breeding, and the English buy horses which are bred in Ireland.
You can't blame them for cherry picking the best for themselves. The idea that Irish trainers are better than English trainers is laughable.
If training winners was all do with skill, then the Irish wouldn't train many winners.
Make no mistake, it's the quality of their stock, not the quality of their trainers that gets them winners.
You can't blame them for cherry picking the best for themselves. The idea that Irish trainers are better than English trainers is laughable.
If training winners was all do with skill, then the Irish wouldn't train many winners.
Make no mistake, it's the quality of their stock, not the quality of their trainers that gets them winners.
Rather:
You can't blame the Irish for cherry picking and keeping the best horses for themselves.
You can't blame the Irish for cherry picking and keeping the best horses for themselves.
The owners of Stage Star and Notlongtillmay can point to one good reason to have a horse trained in GB - it gets ridden by Cobden or Wedge rather than Russell or Townend.
As long as it wins me money it can be trained in Outer Mongolia for all i care.
Another English so called great is beaten by the incredible IRISH ....
What exactly is the difference between doping regime between the 2 countries. There have been regular reports coming out of Ireland of small trainers being prosecuted.
Jim Bolger had something to say,not very flattering it was.
Any other sport this would be a major talking point,and why Irish trained horses were so dominant,but everyone in the media have their snouts in the trough-why rock the boat?
Jim Bolger had something to say,not very flattering it was.
Any other sport this would be a major talking point,and why Irish trained horses were so dominant,but everyone in the media have their snouts in the trough-why rock the boat?
Plenty of Irish 'hotpots' getting beat.
All this bragging about Irish winners means nothing if you didnt back them.
All this bragging about Irish winners means nothing if you didnt back them.
You would've thought that they could find a Rod Stewart record to play in the winners enclosure for that last one
Anyway, my coffee's cold and I'm getting told
That I gotta get back to work
So when the sun goes low and you're home all alone
Think of me and try not to laugh and I wear it well
I don't object if you call collect
'Cause I ain't forgetting that you were once mine
But I blew it without even tryin'
Now I'm eatin' my heart out tryin' to get back to you
That I gotta get back to work
So when the sun goes low and you're home all alone
Think of me and try not to laugh and I wear it well
I don't object if you call collect
'Cause I ain't forgetting that you were once mine
But I blew it without even tryin'
Now I'm eatin' my heart out tryin' to get back to you
But did you back the winner? Thats what matters! Cant see your pre race bet workrider?
No Jinxy1 backed the 3nd sadly . The thread is not about what I back its about the difference between Irish trainers and their English counterparts in case you didn't notice and the reasons to have your horse trained in Ireland..
Before today there had been 265 Irish trained runners that ran in the UK this year, less than 11% success rate and a huge loss of 127 points and a ROI loss of a huge 48%.
So tell me again, why would I send a horse to be trained in Ireland?
So tell me again, why would I send a horse to be trained in Ireland?
Jinxy1 I think you are forgetting that your stats omit the AMOUNT of English runners there were in those races , I think you'll find the Irish horses had a huge numbers disadvantage .
But if you are so superior, as you claim, then it shouldnt matter?
That's like saying we'll have 5 to 1 in most races but we still expect you to win ..How many races have English trainers won in Ireland this year ?
..How many races have English trainers won in Ireland this year ?
By comparison, British trainers have sent horses over to run in Ireland and this last four years actually have a better strike rate of nearly 15%, with a slight loss of less than 3% ROI, using your own logic workrdier, it makes them far superior trainers to the Irish!
Ah Jinxy1 I'm only having the craic, if I have upset you in any way I apologise .
So tell me again, why would I send a horse to be trained in Ireland?
I'd send one to Willie or Gordon that's for sure - even more likely is that I'd ask them to buy me one from France
I'd send one to Willie or Gordon that's for sure - even more likely is that I'd ask them to buy me one from France
C. Hill is Irish bred , of course you wouldn't buy him A.T...
ONLY 4 Irish bred winners today you could have a point A.T... ...
...
C. Hill is Irish bred
I didn't know it was trained in Ireland
ONLY 4 Irish bred winners today you could have a point A.T.
3 minor races and the G1 Novice chase trained in England
I didn't know it was trained in Ireland
ONLY 4 Irish bred winners today you could have a point A.T.
3 minor races and the G1 Novice chase trained in England
So the RYANAIR is only a modest race , yet the English superstar ran and got Beaten in it...
beaten by a French-bred once with Gordon
if you're a billionaire just give a few million to Willie or Gordon - they'll buy you one from France that's sure to win at the festival
if you're a billionaire just give a few million to Willie or Gordon - they'll buy you one from France that's sure to win at the festival
most of these "Irish" winners are as Irish as Greg Rusedski was British
So how come they only won two today did the French bred ,yet the Irish bred won 4 don't think your maths add up mate...
Shishkin was the star attraction in the budget airline race otherwise insignificance once again.
No Mullins' winner today. Is that it or normal service tomorrow?
No Mullins' winner today. Is that it or normal service tomorrow?
Impossible I posted a reply over on the other thread , Willie has a lot of darts to trow tomorrow all round..
Indeed. I'm just hoping his two eg the one that had a nightmare passage last time out, and the one who toppled over in his last visit here with the race at his mercy atone tomorrow.
Not a single fav won today.
Not a single fav won today.
"C. Hill is Irish bred ,"
I've read some rubbish on here, but this takes a bit of believing. He was bred by a lady called Sally Noott, who keeps a few broodmares on her farm in Worcestershire, including the dam of CH, Queen of the Stage.
She sent Queen of the Stage to be covered by Blue Bresil, who at that time was standing at Yorton Farm Stud, which is in the the Welsh border country. The stud fee was £2,750 and the foal was born and raised in Worcestershire.
How on earth you manage to twist that to fit your 'everything great is Irish' shtick is a mystery.
I've read some rubbish on here, but this takes a bit of believing. He was bred by a lady called Sally Noott, who keeps a few broodmares on her farm in Worcestershire, including the dam of CH, Queen of the Stage.
She sent Queen of the Stage to be covered by Blue Bresil, who at that time was standing at Yorton Farm Stud, which is in the the Welsh border country. The stud fee was £2,750 and the foal was born and raised in Worcestershire.
How on earth you manage to twist that to fit your 'everything great is Irish' shtick is a mystery.
what price the winner of the CG will have an unpronounceable french name? still irish though of course
Yesterday gave the lie to the total dominance of the big 2 Irish trainers. A Martin, McConnell and Curling joined Connell and Kiely from earlier days. You can put de Bromhead in either category but if you include him in the "not Mullins or Elliott" group then a total of 8 out of 15 Irish winners came from other stables. And of course all of those had less runners than Mullins or Elliott. The 6 GB trained wins have been evenly spread with Nicholls, Henderson, Skelton, Russell, Snowden and the transplanted Neville on the board.
the Irish dominance of the festival is down to Willie/Gordon and their French-breds - particularly the big races. Take them away and you're down to the level of winners that always existed going back 10 years and further.
TheAnorak , at least you spotted the deliberate mistake unlike our French Correspondent....
doesn't take an expert to spot the letters FR next to all the big "Irish" winners
"deliberate mistake" ... 
'Go tell that to the Marines' - as the old saying goes.
'Go tell that to the Marines' - as the old saying goes.
You didn't even notice I said it was bred in Ireland till TheAnorak brought it to your notice.....Onlooker having been a student in the INS my big thing is Pedigrees so of course I knew it was bred in the U.K. don't be a silly boy all your life...
..Onlooker having been a student in the INS my big thing is Pedigrees so of course I knew it was bred in the U.K. don't be a silly boy all your life...
Om My God can't believe that result , simply incredible ....
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