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One that really hit the spot for me was Charlie Nelson's Minstrella who very sadly didn't seem to train on.
She looked hugely exciting and whilst the media of the day were salivating over Forest Flower, I was quite
confident they were looking in the wrong direction...especially as the Balding horse was a dwarf with
seemingly little or no room for improvement - apologies to the anti-sizist brigade
Do they exist yet? I'm sure they will, given a bit of time.
Anyhow, with the 'tough as teak' Forest Flower beating Milligram in the Irish Guineas, it's clear I called that
one wrong...especially as it was a such a vintage generation - the 1986 2yo fillies (obv. 3yos of '87) were as
good as it gets with Miesque being the best of the lot...and that includes the colts!
Sadly, Forest Flower as well as Minstrella failed to shine again and both seemed to drop off the radar.
There's yet another 'bet' I lost...with jockey Tony Ives who I was chatting to at some sort of racing function
in Southport 1986 who seemed peeved and gave me a pretend 'poke me in the eye' sort of riposte when I
told him who I regarded as the better filly...worth far more than the photo Minstrella scrambled home in
at Phoenix Park
That was in relation to the Cheveley Park in which Ives was disqualified aboard Forest Flower.
The 80s were great days for racing and just to remind some...that generation was only 2 years after superb
lot of fillies, most notably Oh So Sharp & Triptych.
She looked hugely exciting and whilst the media of the day were salivating over Forest Flower, I was quite
confident they were looking in the wrong direction...especially as the Balding horse was a dwarf with
seemingly little or no room for improvement - apologies to the anti-sizist brigade
Do they exist yet? I'm sure they will, given a bit of time.
Anyhow, with the 'tough as teak' Forest Flower beating Milligram in the Irish Guineas, it's clear I called that
one wrong...especially as it was a such a vintage generation - the 1986 2yo fillies (obv. 3yos of '87) were as
good as it gets with Miesque being the best of the lot...and that includes the colts!
Sadly, Forest Flower as well as Minstrella failed to shine again and both seemed to drop off the radar.
There's yet another 'bet' I lost...with jockey Tony Ives who I was chatting to at some sort of racing function
in Southport 1986 who seemed peeved and gave me a pretend 'poke me in the eye' sort of riposte when I
told him who I regarded as the better filly...worth far more than the photo Minstrella scrambled home in
at Phoenix Park
That was in relation to the Cheveley Park in which Ives was disqualified aboard Forest Flower.
The 80s were great days for racing and just to remind some...that generation was only 2 years after superb
lot of fillies, most notably Oh So Sharp & Triptych.
Show More
With respect to Geoff...they all topped the free handicap so everyone was well aware of
those, who too were disappointing - they were in hindsight 'the finished article' as 2yo.
I was leaning towards those that you figured would end up brilliant after 'discovering'
them in lower grades - yet they failed to make the anticipated progress.
DB's example was a perfect one - and I have to admit...#metoo
those, who too were disappointing - they were in hindsight 'the finished article' as 2yo.
I was leaning towards those that you figured would end up brilliant after 'discovering'
them in lower grades - yet they failed to make the anticipated progress.
DB's example was a perfect one - and I have to admit...#metoo
The truly great racehorses are those that shine at 2, 3 and sometimes 4 yr old. Frankel being an all time great imo.
Andrew - we seem to see that every season with Aidan's 2yo 
One Cool Cat was another relative embarrassment considering what
he was supposed to be gonna do - I just ignore ALL the media hype.
Especially the noises from Coolmore - it's insane just how wrong
they regularly get it.
One Cool Cat was another relative embarrassment considering what
he was supposed to be gonna do - I just ignore ALL the media hype.
Especially the noises from Coolmore - it's insane just how wrong
they regularly get it.
Red Rum - won first time out as a 2yo (dead-heat) - but all downhill after that.
Since I gave Charlie Nelson a mention with Minstrella...how's about Arctic Tracker
for a real memory jogger?
for a real memory jogger?
Cawston's Pride 1970 - Filly rated just 2lb below Mill Reef and 1lb behind Brigadier Gerard. 8 runs 8 wins. Broke the Ascot track record in the Cornwallis against the boy. beating Mummys Pet by 4 lengths which put her on a par with the Brigadier or ahead of him with wfs.
Timeless Times - won 16 of his 21 races as a 2yo - but didn't train-on for some reason 
Penzance - I remember thinking Armiger was a nailed-on Derby winner when he
bounded away on the soft at Doncaster - were there any reasons you can recall for
him coming up short as a 3yo?
Although all the horses mentioned above did disappoint in their 3yo seasons, they did
at least reach the top of the tree as juveniles, and so ensured stallion careers.
Just thought of another couple with early pretensions for the highest grade from
big stables whose reputations were derailed...Zajal & Samoan. I don't think I've ever
seen a comparable exaggerated action as the latter. That saying...'grabbed the ground'
must've been invented to describe him.
bounded away on the soft at Doncaster - were there any reasons you can recall for
him coming up short as a 3yo?
Although all the horses mentioned above did disappoint in their 3yo seasons, they did
at least reach the top of the tree as juveniles, and so ensured stallion careers.
Just thought of another couple with early pretensions for the highest grade from
big stables whose reputations were derailed...Zajal & Samoan. I don't think I've ever
seen a comparable exaggerated action as the latter. That saying...'grabbed the ground'
must've been invented to describe him.
He won @ Chester but didn't go to Epsom.
Might've picked up a slight Knock?
I remeber him getting well btn in the Arc.
Might've picked up a slight Knock?
I remeber him getting well btn in the Arc.
Which Armiger are we talking about? Henry Cecil's one had trouble as a three year old but was 2nd in the Leger. and beaten in the Leger. He did not win at three but was a top 2year old
Correct Penzance - For some reason I was thinking his Chester win was at 2
Two of the more obvious ones, Tromos and Arazi.
Just checked up on Armiger who was foaled in 1990 - that was the same crop as Tenby &
the eventual Derby winning, second string Commander In Chief, who was unraced at two.
Tenby, who was unbeaten come Derby Day, was hammered at odds-on though he somewhat
redeemed himself when close up in Opera House's Eclipse but over all, has to be
considered a very disappointing 3yo after three subsequent savage beatings - I wonder
what excuses were proffered for him?
the eventual Derby winning, second string Commander In Chief, who was unraced at two.
Tenby, who was unbeaten come Derby Day, was hammered at odds-on though he somewhat
redeemed himself when close up in Opera House's Eclipse but over all, has to be
considered a very disappointing 3yo after three subsequent savage beatings - I wonder
what excuses were proffered for him?
Tenby was too wee, Arazi had chips on knee joint after winning in States and was operated on I think, was 6/4 with a run for Derby.
Remember the big match, Arazi v Rodrigo D T , finished 3rd and 4th, can't rem race.
Remember the big match, Arazi v Rodrigo D T , finished 3rd and 4th, can't rem race.
*5th and 4th in St James Palace at RA over a 1m 1992
High Estate of Cecil's was fav for 2000G and Derby end of 2YO year in late 80s.
Can't recall if it even ran at 3 tho, maybe was injured
Can't recall if it even ran at 3 tho, maybe was injured
John Gosden once famously said:
"You can always argue the Guineas is the last two-year-old race"
In which case you'd have to say Zafonic
"You can always argue the Guineas is the last two-year-old race"
In which case you'd have to say Zafonic
Provideo , Spindrifter , Timeless Times .........didn't see any of them in a classic........
Crocket. The first time I heard and understood the term "not trained on" around 1963 I would think.
The Pocket Rocket,flattened out at three but still won in listed company.
Was one of only three 2yo to win against older horses at two in gp1.
Name tother two?
Was one of only three 2yo to win against older horses at two in gp1.
Name tother two?
Lyric Fantasy & Kingsgate Native both won at York.
Sigy won the Abbaye as well.
Sigy won the Abbaye as well.
sixtwosix - "Provideo , Spindrifter , Timeless Times .........didn't see any of them in a classic........"
I remember Sir Mark Prescott explaining in an interview or article, how the racing programme at that time made it much easier to run up long sequences of 2yo wins. Can't remember the details, but someone will.
I remember Sir Mark Prescott explaining in an interview or article, how the racing programme at that time made it much easier to run up long sequences of 2yo wins. Can't remember the details, but someone will.
Nov 15, 2022 -- 7:23PM, penzance wrote:
Attraction?1000G wnr amongst other GP1 races.
I know; I was taking a guess at Breadnbutter's question
Didnt take long to find...........
He was a tremendous horse, he made training look easy, and no horse will repeat what he did – or what Provideo and Timeless Times did for Bill O'Gorman a few years later – because the racing programme has changed. In those days [1980] there were lots of conditions races, especially ones for horses who hadn't won a race worth £2,500. I had to be clever and not win a big pot, but early that year I asked his owner Graeme Waters whether he'd like a crack at something like the Windsor Castle Stakes at Royal Ascot or would rather win a lot of races. He said he'd rather win a lot of races. Spindrifter trained himself really, he was a very hardy horse but one of relatively limited ability and his campaign just showed what careful placing could do – I exploited what he was good at, which was the ability to handle firm ground and to run freqently. Five years earlier Nagwa had won 13 races for Barry Hills, and amazingly both Nagwa and Spindrifter were bred by Joe Crowley, Aidan O'Brien's father-in-law.
He was a tremendous horse, he made training look easy, and no horse will repeat what he did – or what Provideo and Timeless Times did for Bill O'Gorman a few years later – because the racing programme has changed. In those days [1980] there were lots of conditions races, especially ones for horses who hadn't won a race worth £2,500. I had to be clever and not win a big pot, but early that year I asked his owner Graeme Waters whether he'd like a crack at something like the Windsor Castle Stakes at Royal Ascot or would rather win a lot of races. He said he'd rather win a lot of races. Spindrifter trained himself really, he was a very hardy horse but one of relatively limited ability and his campaign just showed what careful placing could do – I exploited what he was good at, which was the ability to handle firm ground and to run freqently. Five years earlier Nagwa had won 13 races for Barry Hills, and amazingly both Nagwa and Spindrifter were bred by Joe Crowley, Aidan O'Brien's father-in-law.
Blackbarn - I recall Prescott rattling up a load of wins from Misty Halo in the early 80s
and one of the 'loopholes' he exploited was that he targeted races worth less than £1000
(or £1500) to the winner and in so doing, avoided penalties again & again.
I think she won around a couple of dozen of them over a 4/5 year period.
and one of the 'loopholes' he exploited was that he targeted races worth less than £1000
(or £1500) to the winner and in so doing, avoided penalties again & again.
I think she won around a couple of dozen of them over a 4/5 year period.
Her most notable win however, was in the Nunthorpe Stakes in which she became one of only three juveniles to win a Group One race in open-age competition. Her speed and diminutive stature led to her being nicknamed
Not sure if its correct taken from wiki.
Of course Kingsgate Native, (great horse but never quite right after)
They get a huge amount of weight in Nunthorpe, 2yo run off 8-1, 3yo 9-9, older 9-11 with a further sex allowance of 1lb.
Surprised more don't try, looks more than fair.
Not sure if its correct taken from wiki.
Of course Kingsgate Native, (great horse but never quite right after)
They get a huge amount of weight in Nunthorpe, 2yo run off 8-1, 3yo 9-9, older 9-11 with a further sex allowance of 1lb.
Surprised more don't try, looks more than fair.
Sorry,my mistake.
Thought Atraction,she won a good few races.
Thought Atraction,she won a good few races.
GORYTUS
Irrespective of whether he was Doped in the Dewhurst, or not.
Irrespective of whether he was Doped in the Dewhurst, or not.
For what its worth, Henry always felt that Diesis would have beaten even a top form Gorytus. I guess he would say that wouldn't he, but he did feel that D was a better 2yo than even Kris.
Trying to find Cordobas form, think was trained by Stoutey in about 1988. Cant locate anything
Cordoba went to race in the US after its 2yo career here. Won on debut at Newmarket easily, then 3rd in Middle Park and 5th in the Dewhurst.
The hoss is Cordoba (US) foaled in 1987, so 1989 was its 2yo season. You should be able to research its US form and Stud record with that info.
Tromos, as he really smashed the script with most going into the Dewhurst polarised in either the R B Chesne or More Light corners, who both were exciting prospects at the time.
I would nearly give my right arm for the video of Tromos winning the Dewhurst.
next best - blackbarn
Did not know that, as such, existed on Youtube ... Must have been uploaded by an absolute enthusiast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqeJeYAktmk
Tromos was moved up in class and distance to contest the Group One Dewhurst Stakes, Britain's most prestigious race for two-year-olds over seven furlongs at Newmarket Racecourse.
He started at odds of 11/4,[6] making him third favourite in a field of six runners behind R B Chesne and More Light, who had finished first and second in the Champagne Stakes.
Lynch sent the colt into the lead from the start and set a strong pace which soon had the other contenders under pressure. Two furlongs from the finish Tromos accelerated away from the field and won very impressively
Bombed out entirely after that, though.
Did not know that, as such, existed on Youtube ... Must have been uploaded by an absolute enthusiast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqeJeYAktmk
Tromos was moved up in class and distance to contest the Group One Dewhurst Stakes, Britain's most prestigious race for two-year-olds over seven furlongs at Newmarket Racecourse.
He started at odds of 11/4,[6] making him third favourite in a field of six runners behind R B Chesne and More Light, who had finished first and second in the Champagne Stakes.
Lynch sent the colt into the lead from the start and set a strong pace which soon had the other contenders under pressure. Two furlongs from the finish Tromos accelerated away from the field and won very impressively
Bombed out entirely after that, though.
Not Tromos, but Diesis v Gorytus in the Dewhurst for those that haven't seen it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzcAevALRXg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzcAevALRXg
Celtic Swing, even if it did win a French Derby
Elm Park never had the chance to reproduce his Racing post Trophy win.
Celtic Swing was top rated 2yr old i think and you cant say didnt train on.....just beat in the 2,000 and won a derby. I was lucky enough to be working for Lady Herries when Celtic Swing was racing. When it won the French Derby Peter Savill gave every member of staff 500 squid and the old fella looking after Celtic Swing 10,000 squid....and we had a big party to celebrate
Cloonlara...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloonlara_(horse)
1976/77... didn't train on..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloonlara_(horse)
1976/77... didn't train on..
Boynton, War Decree, Military March, Buratino, Air Force Blue, War Command and that's without thinking too long.
truehoncho - I think the OP had in mind something a bit more interesting than a simple list of names. Oh and you should have thought longer on Boynton
Sorry I didn't come up to scratch there Blackbarn. I take it you didn't like Boynton. I thought he was a beautiful horse than looked nailed on for a big 3yo career. Him and War Decree met at Newmarket and Goodwood, both looked terrific and both flopped!!
Timeless Times - won 16 of his 21 races as a 2yo - but didn't train-on for some reason
My first ever horse bet i think.
I remember going into the bookies whenever he ran and going back later to collect my winnings. Didn't really understand class/weights etc. I saw all the 1's and kept doing it.
I thought I had the game by the b0ll0cks.
My first ever horse bet i think.
I remember going into the bookies whenever he ran and going back later to collect my winnings. Didn't really understand class/weights etc. I saw all the 1's and kept doing it.
I thought I had the game by the b0ll0cks.
Blackbarn - to be honest, I think I worded the thread tag badly as what I was
really looking for was NOT a list of horses that didn't train on, or were injured
but who mysteriously were unable to reproduce the immense promise of a superb debut
or early graduation race.
That's why that Cordoba suggestion epitomised what I was after...not Minstrella
(as I suggested) as she was already at the top of the tree and failed to train on.
Cordoba went into EVERYONE'S notebook after his sparkling debut...a bit like Kerrera
around the same time, though that filly was placed in the Guineas so again, she wouldn't
be an ideal qualifier.
George's Lujain most certainly dropped off the landscape dramatically but he did win the
Middle Park before going AWOL so he wouldn't really fulfil the criteria like Cordoba.
Certainly an intersting suggestion and a mystery for Arthur C Clarke
really looking for was NOT a list of horses that didn't train on, or were injured
but who mysteriously were unable to reproduce the immense promise of a superb debut
or early graduation race.
That's why that Cordoba suggestion epitomised what I was after...not Minstrella
(as I suggested) as she was already at the top of the tree and failed to train on.
Cordoba went into EVERYONE'S notebook after his sparkling debut...a bit like Kerrera
around the same time, though that filly was placed in the Guineas so again, she wouldn't
be an ideal qualifier.
George's Lujain most certainly dropped off the landscape dramatically but he did win the
Middle Park before going AWOL so he wouldn't really fulfil the criteria like Cordoba.
Certainly an intersting suggestion and a mystery for Arthur C Clarke
Can anyone remember a Henry Cecil 2yo called Musicale? She was supposed to win the 1000G and was backed accordingly. It didn't happen.
Possibly only one of a pair of horses trained by Cecil for Sangster...that always puzzled me
as to how that came to happen.
Musicale was a top flight performer and the other one that I recall wasn't too bad either but
never had the opportunity (for reasons I'm unaware of) to show it - can you guys name it?
as to how that came to happen.
Musicale was a top flight performer and the other one that I recall wasn't too bad either but
never had the opportunity (for reasons I'm unaware of) to show it - can you guys name it?
Emotionless,Godolphin,remember him getting stuffed
in the Dewhurst.
in the Dewhurst.
Sir Henry trained five for Robert Sangster, the one you are probably thinking of is Imperial Ballet who won a Hunt Cup for them in 93
Excellent Cork - that was the other one I knew...can't recall any others.
Penzance - that's a fair example...though he did reach a half-decent 115 official rating.
He did go AWOL for a long time though.
He did go AWOL for a long time though.
Rainbow View. imperious 2 year old and odds on favourite for 1000 Guineas, finished fifth and struggled for the rest of the season.
Hugely surprised nobody's mentioned the unholy trinity of Dilum, Green Green Desert and Killer Instinct yet.
Was there a moubarak/foustok horse called Silver something??
Thats the one Geoff. I'm a bit vague on what it achieved but something rang a bell it was a decent 2yo that did nothing at 3. That though might be totally wrong.
All i can recall i seem to remember it running in The Craven but no idea how or when it ran.
He won the Craven, was fifth in the Guineas, third in the Derby after meeting lots of trouble and then 2nd in a weak Irish Derby. Retired at the end of 3yo career.
Cheers Blackbarn. Could only recall a connection with Craven.
ANother ,just before my time was Hobbs flying 2 yr old filly Cry Of Truth cant recaLL she did anything @ 3.
ANother ,just before my time was Hobbs flying 2 yr old filly Cry Of Truth cant recaLL she did anything @ 3.
Cork - can you name any more of those Sangster horses he had with Henry...and are you aware of
any reason why he had so few given the success of Musicale & Imperial Ballet?
I have no recollection of any others though I'm not attempting to correct you...I just find it
very odd, especially as he still had a fair amount of horses after that time, despite cutting
back his operation.
PS - The Dealer - I think the Fustok one you meant was Forest Tiger who had a huge
reputation...though that was as a 3yo.
I haven't got a clue as to why after such a promising debut, his form imploded.
any reason why he had so few given the success of Musicale & Imperial Ballet?
I have no recollection of any others though I'm not attempting to correct you...I just find it
very odd, especially as he still had a fair amount of horses after that time, despite cutting
back his operation.
PS - The Dealer - I think the Fustok one you meant was Forest Tiger who had a huge
reputation...though that was as a 3yo.
I haven't got a clue as to why after such a promising debut, his form imploded.
JM - Killer Instinct really was a strange one...as you couldn't believe someone as shrewd & experienced
as Cecil would do a 'Kellaway/Brittain' with any of his horses, in believing they were superstars...never
mind something perceived as relatively moderate.
He was heralded as the second coming (as a 3yo if memory serves) despite him having just the one run as
a 2yo...where (after checking up) I'd forgotten he was only beaten a length by the Eclipse winner of the
next season, Compton Admiral.
Also, as a 3yo he was under three lengths behind Kalanisi (Heron) before running a semi-respectable 7 lengths
behind Sendawar in the SJP at Ascot.
He really must've burned up those gallops for Henry to get so excited - is anyone aware of what excuses
were proffered? I find it hard to believe that Henry was so way out (as regards his innate ability) so there
must've been genuine reasons he didn't show his true form.
as Cecil would do a 'Kellaway/Brittain' with any of his horses, in believing they were superstars...never
mind something perceived as relatively moderate.
He was heralded as the second coming (as a 3yo if memory serves) despite him having just the one run as
a 2yo...where (after checking up) I'd forgotten he was only beaten a length by the Eclipse winner of the
next season, Compton Admiral.
Also, as a 3yo he was under three lengths behind Kalanisi (Heron) before running a semi-respectable 7 lengths
behind Sendawar in the SJP at Ascot.
He really must've burned up those gallops for Henry to get so excited - is anyone aware of what excuses
were proffered? I find it hard to believe that Henry was so way out (as regards his innate ability) so there
must've been genuine reasons he didn't show his true form.
Nov 17, 2022 -- 1:34PM, blackbarn wrote:
He won the Craven, was fifth in the Guineas, third in the Derby after meeting lots of trouble and then 2nd in a weak Irish Derby. Retired at the end of 3yo career.
Cheers BB
So not exactly in line with the thread
Gibberish you may well be right with that, the name also rings a bell.
Leonardo da Vinci another 3yo who had a sky high reputation that went as quick as it came.
Leonardo da Vinci another 3yo who had a sky high reputation that went as quick as it came.
Think Pat was quoted saying Leonardo Da Vinci was the best horse hed ridden after winning the white rose stakes @ Ascot on his 2nd outing. Reckon he won the Wood Ditton on debut and then subsequently disappointed in the Dante .Dont take it as gospel just going on memory from 45 years ago.
Wouldnt have a clue what won this years Wood Ditton ?Dante.!!!
Wouldnt have a clue what won this years Wood Ditton ?Dante.!!!
Always loved the buzz of a talking horse. "Catching pigeons, working the house down, stopwatches breaking", all that.
I remember a massive rumour for a particular horse and it lost on debut. Thought 'ere we go again, been fed a pup.
Next time out they decided not to bother holding the horse up and let him lead. DAYJUR the monster was unleashed
Sorry the opposite of the thread theme but the rumour mill adds excitement to debuts and maidens in this game, imo
I remember a massive rumour for a particular horse and it lost on debut. Thought 'ere we go again, been fed a pup.
Next time out they decided not to bother holding the horse up and let him lead. DAYJUR the monster was unleashed
Sorry the opposite of the thread theme but the rumour mill adds excitement to debuts and maidens in this game, imo
Zilzal was another who had a massive rep but he delivered on debut and is an all-time great.
Shame he went to the USA as many did in those days as an afterthought.
Shame he went to the USA as many did in those days as an afterthought.
j-c-m. I am pretty sure Dayjur won on debut. You are of course correct that he blossomed when they stopped holding him up
I always remember Zilzal as being quite a scrawny sort of colt who really would've strengthened
up as a 4yo - just what could he have been?
Especially as he's rightly considered one of the great milers despite only one short season
up as a 4yo - just what could he have been?
Especially as he's rightly considered one of the great milers despite only one short season
Thanks Blackburn, I must be having a Nelson Mandela effect moment here!
I was convinced Dayjur lost on debut to Tod!
For 30 odds years I've thought that lol!
Cheers
I was convinced Dayjur lost on debut to Tod!
For 30 odds years I've thought that lol!
Cheers
blackbarn*, sorry I'm having a nightmare today with accuracy obviously, lol
J-c-m. Happens to us all! Spellchecker almost invariably does Blackburn; can't be expected to know that I have a barn!! The barn is in Black Bush Barn field; I decided against using the "bush" for obvious reasons.
European Champion 2yo Storm Bird would take some beating in the NOT training on stakes!!!
Mention here of Sangster horses has me immediately thinking about Revoque. Ok, not exactly a hidden name as he won a few G1's as a 2yo. But I remember thinking he was the real deal. My memory is a bit hazy regarding his 3yo season. I seem to recall he was a shade unlucky in the 2000 Guineas. But after that he done next to nothing of significance that I can remember.
J o tobin.
But of course he trained on in usa
That was disappointing to me, and iirc Noel Murless too.
But of course he trained on in usa
That was disappointing to me, and iirc Noel Murless too.
Gibberish, the five that I have owned by Sangster and trained by Cecil are
Musicale 1991
Ikebana 1991
Siberian Winter 1991
Imperial Ballet 1991
Dreams Are Free 1992
Rather than why so few went there, it should be a case of why any of them were sent to Cecil given the "competition" between the Sangster and Sheikh camps at the time with Cecil very much the Sheikh's first choice as trainer, as well as housing many horses for other leading owners like Abdullah, de Walden, Niarchos, Cliveden Stud and the St George's.
With Sangster having his own private set up it is even more surprising why he gave Cecil any horses, there appears to be no link between the horses that were sent to explain it, perhaps it was to give Sangster an in to the stable, all rather odd really on reflection.
Musicale 1991
Ikebana 1991
Siberian Winter 1991
Imperial Ballet 1991
Dreams Are Free 1992
Rather than why so few went there, it should be a case of why any of them were sent to Cecil given the "competition" between the Sangster and Sheikh camps at the time with Cecil very much the Sheikh's first choice as trainer, as well as housing many horses for other leading owners like Abdullah, de Walden, Niarchos, Cliveden Stud and the St George's.
With Sangster having his own private set up it is even more surprising why he gave Cecil any horses, there appears to be no link between the horses that were sent to explain it, perhaps it was to give Sangster an in to the stable, all rather odd really on reflection.
Thanks Cork - I remember Ikebana and as I mentioned earlier, that's another strange word
I became aware of (it means Japanese flower arranging) due to my perverse interest in the
sport which I alluded to on another thread...just like Aeschylus
People often must've thought I was so cultured to know these odd facts but the truth of it
was that I had an almost unhealthy obsession with anything horse-racing related...and I've
probably always been as thick as fcuk, yet could often come up trumps with an unexpected answer
A postscript to Ikebana...I didn't know she was the dam of the very decent City Honours who
was beaten only a head in the Epsom Derby by High Rise.
PS - Penzance...Daggers Drawn was very much touted yet he seemed to inexplicably fall off a cliff.
Unfortunately that happens quite frequently without anyone knowing the ins & outs of any developments.
I became aware of (it means Japanese flower arranging) due to my perverse interest in the
sport which I alluded to on another thread...just like Aeschylus
People often must've thought I was so cultured to know these odd facts but the truth of it
was that I had an almost unhealthy obsession with anything horse-racing related...and I've
probably always been as thick as fcuk, yet could often come up trumps with an unexpected answer
A postscript to Ikebana...I didn't know she was the dam of the very decent City Honours who
was beaten only a head in the Epsom Derby by High Rise.
PS - Penzance...Daggers Drawn was very much touted yet he seemed to inexplicably fall off a cliff.
Unfortunately that happens quite frequently without anyone knowing the ins & outs of any developments.
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