01.50 Del mar - Flightline

Supposedly been working the house down at Del Mar every Saturday since his last race.

I’m on County Grammer eachway.

He’s a dual G1 winner over 10 furlongs on dirt and warmed up for this with a pleasing come back at the course over 8.5.

So if for whatever reason Flightline goes all One Man in the Gold Cup in the final furlong then I’m sure County Grammer will get him.

Cannot find any markets on here for such a big meeting.

In in the Sportsbook…select horse racing, Sunday, Del Mar and you’ll find the Saturday races that are off Sunday our time.

this will be very interesting. over a mile, hes a machine. last time he missed the break and got pushed back on the inside but still won by a big distance v a good horse.

had never heard of it till seen its last races on atr in between wolves..looks useful

ok thanks will have a look

Will probably win but 1/4 running over a new distance a bit short price for a bet,would consider 4/9.

Won very easy must be a cert for the Breeders Cup

incredible for his first run over 10f

This is the best horse since secretariat. It must be a rating over 140?

looked about 15 lengths....he is 9/4 with betfair sportsbook for the classic but will he run?...........

Should be 1/5 with a run. Take it.

Should be 1/5 with a run. Take it.

Should be 1/5 with a run. Take it.

2nd fastest time ever for this race.........candy ride in 2003 did 1.59.11.............flightline is a machine.

fckn ell..no idea of the strength of the form but that was specacular.

That was some performance.

Could have smashed that record if the jockey wanted, geared down for the last 1/2F.

Arrogate was the same. Looked unbeatable. Never contested the classics. Beat Gun Runner 15 lengths. Won Dubai Gold Cup. Greatest ever and all that. Are they on drugs? How can you compare? Ended in a heap.

I was actually more impressed with Arrogate because a horse moving through a field is always going to look more impressive to the eye than one that gallops the oposition into the ground. The time becomes more exciting than the visual performance. That's just the way of US racing. Not in this case, but often good horses look like they are walking the last furlong.

something had to have went wrong with arrogate..went from looking a superstar to a one paced plodder wen it was beat at 1/33.

Wow knockout bestest Horse in the World bar none.

Baaeed V Flightline pay per view lets get it.

useful tool. reminiscent of Secretariat when winding up to go a street light or two clear on the bend.

has to be the headline act at the Breeder's.

reading the trainers post race interview is worrying........seems this horses few appearances is not because of injuries but because trainer just didnt want to run him and its a strategy to only have a few runs......so he has had 5 by now. i would be surprised if he stays in training next year. 2 more runs likely........one before the classic and then the classic..........this type of horse only comes around once every 30 years. i will never understand why you would do this with such a superstar. he should be running 7/8 times a year for 3 years running and if something goes wrong, SO WHAT......at least frankel had 14 runs.......

“Nothing too big, but a series of small things,” says Sadler. “He has a significant scar on his right hip near his tail, he caught his back end on a door latch down in Ocala and it was quite a deep wound. That was part of the reason he didn’t run at two.


“He picked up a crack in his foot that meant we had to wait out last summer, and he strained a hock this February, hence he didn’t run until June. I like to say he only loses to inanimate objects, a door latch, a wall.

This shows why trainers are reluctant to run their horse too often. Flightline has run only 5 races in 18 months. Frankel ran 5 races in 26 weeks as a three year old and 5 races in 23 weeks as a four year old. If Baaeed runs in Champion Stakes that will be 5 races in something like 22 weeks. Sea Bird II ran 5 races in 25 weeks. Running horses less often offers the opportunity of better individual performances. If Flightline runs in the Breeders Cup Classic that will be four runs in 21 weeks. On dirt I guess horses need more time between races. Dancing Brave ran his first 5 races as a three year old in 15 weeks then had a break before the Arc of 11 weeks. He then ran in the Breeders Cup three weeks later and was beaten. As a 4 year old Brigadier Gerard ran 5 top class races in just 9 weeks culminating in the King George. That is not enough time between races.

Nowadays with so many top class races to run in the best horses can be allowed time to have good breaks between their races. Fresh horses is the answer, I believe.

Dancing Brave ran @Goodwood before the Arc.

As a 4 year old Brigadier Gerard ran 5 top class races in just 9 weeks culminating in the King George. That is not enough time between races.

sound of iona just ran 3 times in 3 consecutive days and ran blinders in all.

And do you think the American would win an Arc

Pen I know he ran at Goodwood in a mickey mouse race. He was long odds on and won by 10 lengths. I mean top class races.

Rico I know horses run more regularly but I am talking about champions. Goodness it is hard work sometimes.

I am just trying to explain why I believe top class horses, although there are loads more opportunities today than there used to be, run so infrequently.

Also it is hugely financially beneficial.

In the 70's a horse going to stud would cover 30 mares a year. Today they cover up to 5 times that number. The risk of defeat if far more costly.

Plus, of course, when horses run less often they are more likely to put up better performances. The effort of previous performances are no longer in their legs.

Form, I doubt he would be able to run in France using drugs. I think horses have previously been offered a 12lb allowance not to run on drugs in the US and they turned it down. Therefore when an American star runs on drugs the ratings should be dropped 12lbs because that is what difference the Americans believe there is with the the use of drugs. I think I have got that right. I am sure I will be corrected.

"I think horses have previously been offered a 12lb allowance
not to run on drugs in the US and they turned it down"

I am astonished to read that - I've never heard anything about it at all
though I'm in no way correcting you as it's just never been on my radar.

I'm now weighing that up in relation to some great European performances
over the years, though I haven't got a clue which ones ran with/without
medication - I wouldn't even know if something as iconic as that Pebbles
win was after having a booster!


Is there anywhere online that tells us such information?
It really should be in the RP form - yet another 'oversight' from them.

Goldikova ran in the Breeders Cup on bute or lasix.

This was taken from an article about drugs and the Breeders Cup. 2009.
I think that you will find nearly all the European winners were on it, the Godolphin's were and so was Conduit, in fact I think I'm correct in saying that the only Aiden O'Brien winner was actually on the drug, but all the ones that didn't perform were not.

Thanks mate - would you happen to know if Arcangues ran bald as I have a vague recollection
he did - it was a staggering result at the time (formwise) but I think the reason it sticks
in my mind was because he did it 'assistance-free' though I'm not too confident of that.

PS - Aidan's ONLY winner?

PS - wouldn't it be obvious to make an assumption that a giant improvement
in Arcangues' form would suggest that it was due a stimulant of some sort?

That's precisely why I though it was a 'clean' victory.

The widespread use of drugs in America leads Timeform to ask, in their essay on Breeders’ Cup Turf winner Talismanic, “can racegoers and punters really believe everything they see in North American racing”? The ubiquitous use of lasix prompts another poser: “What difference does its use make?” Their answer, based on the Pegasus World Cup, is “that American trainers think it’s worth more than 7lb, seeing that was the allowance in the race conditions for running without lasix. None of the connections took it up!”

Considering Timeform's stance on drugs any American horse running on drugs should be penalised at least 7lbs, I am sure it was 12lbs elsewhere, otherwise they are not backing themselves. It will be interesting the rating they give Flightline considering the US could be a big market for Timeform.

Winx ran 7/8/9 times a year for 4/5 years in a row.......did her no harm..........

Actually Winx is a good example. She ran 10 times as a 3 y old losing 6 times. This was too many runs without a break.
As a 4 y old she ran 7 times. First 4 times then a 16 week break then 3 more times.
As a 5 y old she ran 8 times. First 4 then a 19 week break then 4 more.
As a 6 year old she ran 8 times. First 3 then an 18 week break then 3 more times.
And as a 7 year old she ran 8 times. Four times then a 16 week break then four more times.

She wasn't over raced and their racing system allowed her to have months off in between.

Winx ran 10m times as a three year old. First 3 run in a month, beaten twice. Then 7 runs beaten 4 times, with a break in between. They learned.

And the key point here is that she never put up one outstanding, massive performance even though she was much the best horse and long odds on all of the time.
That was as good as she was.

"And the key point here is that she never put up one outstanding, massive performance even though she was much the best horse and long odds on all of the time."

you obviously dont follow aus racing. she was not a front runner. she put in unreal performances, cantering around her rivals from well off the pace time and time again..........she won her last 33 races.......ran against the colts all the time.......left handed/right handed........7/8/9/10f.........seriously man, get a grip.

Brain, you missed the point.
Winx was so far superior to here opposition I am sure she could have beaten them by wider margins. Something the other champions did do. She may have had to have raced less and been fresher but ratings are based upon how far you beat your opposition and how good the opposition is.
Winx was long odds on most of the time and I am certain had her connections planned it better she could have achieved a much higher rating, possibly by running fewer times.
Of course you have to remember that she is a mare and not a stallion so her rating is not necessarily that important and by winning more high value races was the way to go.
Is that grip enough for you.

On a more positive note regarding WInx, and following on from her first attempt at producing a foal, she was recently described (Aug 16/2022) as being, "nearing the end of her pregnancy journey".

Lost her first foal in October 2020 but appears more successful in producing a foal by Pierro

"Winx was long odds on most of the time and I am certain had her connections planned it better she could have achieved a much higher rating, possibly by running fewer times."

the objective with a wonder horse is to win G1 races........jut like r nadal and n djokovic's objective is to win grand slams............you are suggesting that winx's connections should have only run her 4 times a year instead of 8 and therefore win 10-15 G1 races instead of 25?.........all in the pursuit of what a better rating?......ratings are based on opinion........they mean nothing. what matters about frankel is that he ran in 10 G1 races and put in spectacular performances just like Winx..i dont care about his rating.....im glad winx was a mare. if she were a colt it would have been half the races she won but at least that would be better than whats happening with flightline......he needs to be kept in training and run in at least 8 G1 races next year........then we can talk about him and secretariat.

Is Flightline better than Baaeed or Frankel? Timeform react to stunning Pacific Classic win.

Flightline’s rating now stands at 143, an outstanding figure which only a handful of horses in Europe have ever bettered in Timeform’s experience, namely Frankel (147), Sea-Bird (145), Brigadier Gerard and Tudor Minstrel (144), all of those, of course, on turf.



https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/is-flightline-better-than-baaeed-or-frankel-timeform-react-to-stunning-pacific-classic-win/203366

Flightline the only hoss this year to threaten the great Frankel's world ranking.
Baeeed will remain ranked 10 lb lower.

The beast could get near the mighty Frankel with a demolition job.

Not sure this track is set up for it but obviously priced up to win.

Life is good & Happy saver ridden for the places perhaps. Taking on the jolly early doors would be full of jeapordy?

is this the greatest 1.44 shot of all time?......i think so, but i cant bring myself to put a grand on

On a more positive note regarding WInx, and following on from her first attempt at producing a foal, she was recently described (Aug 16/2022) as being, "nearing the end of her pregnancy journey".

Lost her first foal in October 2020 but appears more successful in producing a foal by Pierro Happy


Update:08 Oct
Super mare Winx has a Pierro foal at foot after the former champion mare gave birth in New South Wales overnight.
https://www.racing.com/news/2022-10-08/news-breeding-winx-has-pierro-foal#:~:text=Super%20mare%20Winx%20has%20a,latter%20stages%20of%20her%20pregnancy.

Lovely photo with her and her filly

running life is good beyond a mile is a crime

beyond 9f i mean

brave to take it on like that but showed some blistering pace.

Frankel's top rating in jeopardy here but could end up a tie for top rated.

Would have been great to have seen Flightline trained on next year but its gonna be syndicated for breeding you'd think.

it won,as do most good horses before...arrogate was supposed to be the next big thing...and there will be another next year

I can't see how Timeform can improve it's rating for Flightline with the 2nd fav pulled up, and Life Is Good not staying at that pace (or any pace really). The 2nd and 3rd runners are 125'ish performers and he beat them just over 8 length. His current 143 shouldn't really be bettered by last nights run unless they bump the 2nd and 3rd ratings.

I can't see how Timeform can improve it's rating for Flightline with the 2nd fav pulled up, and Life Is Good not staying at that pace (or any pace really). The 2nd and 3rd runners are 125'ish performers and he beat them just over 8 length. His current 143 shouldn't really be bettered by last nights run unless they bump the 2nd and 3rd ratings.


Spot on.

Earned a Timeform rating of 136 for the Classic run.


The Pacific Classic took Flightline into new territory and his victory there earned a rating of 143 – the highest that Timeform have ever awarded to a North American-trained horse since they began covering racing more extensively in that jurisdiction in the early 1990s. Again, it was race standards and a very fast overall time that gave credence to rating the race so highly.

That brings us on to the Breeders’ Cup Classic, where his victory by eight and a quarter lengths is a record winning margin for the race and earned him a Timeform rating of 136. The bare form is rather held down by Olympiad and Taiba, very smart Grade 1 winners in their own right, but almost in a separate race having sat off the strong gallop set by the non-staying Life Is Good.

Running to very high ratings requires circumstances to allow the opportunity just as much as ability and the Pacific Classic was the one occasion where everything dropped right for Flightline to do so. While it’s no surprise that his career comes to an end after the Breeders’ Cup Classic, it does seem a shame that he will leave that wider public consciousness as quickly as he entered it after just six starts, with many people left questioning where he stands in the pecking order of equine greatness.

Timeform are happy to let others decide what constitutes true greatness and how important other attributes like versatility, consistency and longevity are alongside ability, but in terms of ratings, only Frankel (147), Sea-Bird (145), Brigadier Gerard and Tudor Minstrel (both 144) have ever been awarded higher end-of-year Timeform ratings.

As stated earlier, Timeform only began compiling US ratings in the 1990s, so it doesn’t have a published figure for Secretariat. In A Century of Champions, published by Timeform, but written by John Randall and Tony Morris, they rated Secretariat 144, Citation 142, Spectacular Bid and Seattle Slew 141 and Native Dancer and Affirmed 140 as the leading performers in America in the last century. US racing journalist Andy Beyer has been compiling speedfigures in America privately for over fifty years and publicly for over thirty and awarded Secretariat a retrospective rating of 139. His ratings are on a different scale to Timeform’s (and Randall and Morris) and, if translated to the Timeform scale, would put Secretariat on a figure in the low 150s.

As good as Flightline has looked and threatened to be, Big Red’s position at the top of the US tree seems safe for a while yet.
https://www.timeform.com/horse-racing/features/generic-feature/flightline-the-timeform-verdict-7112022