Well if mick channon said it,it must be true,black caviar won over 6 furlongs straight after the lockinge everyone was aware frankel would go Queen Anne,incidentally black caviar was 1/6 when the horse just got home in the diamond jubilee.

Completely agree about Sea The Stars - so consistent - so predictable - and ridden by Mr Dependable

Have  just bought this book and look forward to reading it, have always enjoyed Brigust's posts and though there will be an understandiable bias in his views, they'll be more trustworthy than Mr Hislops in the ' The Brigadier' book ( which I've read twice and first read in the mid 1970's), in which he penned a chapter probably  back fitting  a tale on how his so called genius pedigree interpretation led to him chosing Queens  Hussar as the stallion to send his mare to - in an obituary by Tony Morris, Hislop chose QH as he stood local and was cheap!

If youre going to name a horse the best of all time then you have to beat the best around in your era.
So frankel. No.

As for Sea the stars. He never raced after his 3yo career. He would surely have kicked Workforce @ss but we will never know. Still, at 250k a pop in the breeding shed i guess his owners couldnt give a flying one.

Well here's mytwopennorth! I've been watching racing for over 60 years and one horses acceleration stands out in my memory. It took my breath away then and nothing since has compared with that feeling I had. Sure, any horse can only beat its own generation but my vote goes to…..Shergar.

In terms of what the beaten horses in the derby went on to achieve then Troy has to be high up in the great middle distance horses.

1965: three-year-old season
As a three-year-old, Sea-Bird won all five starts, starting with a three-length win in the Prix Greffulhe. He next appeared in the Prix Lupin, which he won by six lengths from Diatome.

In The Derby, Sea-Bird started as the 7/4 favourite in a field of twenty two. There was an incident the night before the race in which police and security staff repelled a gang which had attempted to enter the stable of the 2000 Guineas winner Niksar. Before the race, Sea-Bird was described as looking "plain and high". He raced on the outside behind the leaders until the turn into the straight and then moved up to take the lead on the bridle with Glennon sitting "still as a statue". Sea-Bird won effortlessly by two lengths from Meadow Court, who went on to win the Irish Derby and the King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes, with I Say in third.Timeform said of his victory: "Sea-Bird's performance at Epsom had to be seen to believed. He beat his twenty-one opponents without coming off the bit."

In July, Sea-Bird ran in the Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud, which he won, easing down, by two and a half lengths from Couroucou.[16] He was then rested until the autumn.

In the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, Sea-Bird faced a very strong field, including Irish Derby winner Meadow Court, Preakness winner Tom Rolfe, French Derby (Prix du Jockey Club) winner Reliance, Prix de Diane winner Blabla and Russian Derby winner Anilin. Starting at odds of 6/5, Sea Bird won easily despite veering across the track, with jockey Pat Glennon patting him down the neck in the final 100 yards, by six lengths (though photographs of the finish show it to have been closer to four and a half lengths) from Reliance. Five lengths further back in third place was Diatome (though photographs show it to have been closer to four lengths), who went on to win the Washington, D.C. International. Fourth place went to Free Ride, fifth was Anilin and sixth was Tom Ro

Come to think of it the way the derby is now and the way horses are campaigned the 79 derby will most probably never be bettered in terms of form and the winner won 7 lengths.

I would agree jimnast although Ribot might have had something to say about that.

I was meaning a bit later the ribot 70sand 80s

one thing to bear in mind is that there are twice as many foals now as there were in the 60s/70s - the potential talent pool is much bigger so competition stronger

I think the biggest issue between The Brigadier and Frankel is the visual one...he won so many races by doing just enough .
At the end of the day one was never beaten whilst the other won a King George proving himself over 12 furlongs ....

barstool , Excelebration  didn't run his optimum race in the Queen Anne because he was ridden to try and win the race but that meant staying in touch with Frankel.

Don't hold yer breath. They are still waiting in US. Secretariat ( '73 )

I would take more notice of the majors opinion than that of mick channon,

Sparrow I can really only go back to 77 In what I’ve seen and in 86 I saw the best I thought I would ever see it was 26 years later as a 4 year old I saw a better one ,as Howard pointed out it’s a long time since Americans saw a better one than secretariat.

According to ratings ( timeform and others ) he put up the best performance.  So whatever anyone says about distances opposition etc. at worst he would still be the best.  If he had run in a heavy ground Arc and finished nearer last than first he would still be the best.  Secretariat I think got beat 5 times.

HRAC is on record saying Frankel would have even been better as a 5 year old.

The cynics will say 'he would say that' but Henry never called a duck a swan.

Some years ago on this forum the author of the book talked about the Timeform rating of Excelebration in comparison to Royal Palace who had won the 2000 gns, The Derby,Eclipse, Coronation Cup and the King George. In The Eclipse he had beaten Sir Ivor and in the Derby Ribocco who went on to win the Irish Derby and the Arc winner was behind him in the King George. Despite all that Excelebration was rated 2lb higher which Timeform had to do to justify the Frankel rating.

We say that seeing is believing and anyone under 50 will struggle to understand that there may have been horses around such as Sea Bird, Brigadier Gerard and Mill Reef that might have been  better than Frankel. Tudor Minstrel was before my time and I did not see Ribot race so it is hard for me to comprehend how they could be better than the three I mention, but they may well have been.

Frankel was a great racehorse of course but there may well have been a few better than him too.