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Must say I was a big fan of the horse and looking forward to reading the book.
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is it written by Brigust ?!
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Yes.
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https://www.racingpost.com/news/insight/better-than-frankel-reinforcements-in-the-brigadiers-battle-for-supremacy/568171
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Best hoss on the turf
Breeding wise Frankel kicks him in the dust  |
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Frankel is only the 7th best horse of all time ffs
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The book has its own website (and is published by Brigust Books) from where you can buy it.
https://www.brigadiergerardandme.co.uk/ |
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jimnast 17 Jul 22 14:06
Frankel is only the 7th best horse of all time ffs ----------- That does appear to be an absurd claim. Off the Top of My Head - The Claim must be including Horses like ... Secretariat - Ribot - Sea-Bird - Dancing Brave - possibly, Phar Lap .... and maybe even ... Sceptre  Whatever - There were NO International Classifications when Brigadier Gerard was running - International Classifications were first published in the mid-1970s ... and they ran at an INFLATED OVERALL LEVEL for ALL Levels of Group Races for some considerable time, too - most especially compared to Today's LEVELS ... So Direct comparisons are NOT possible ... Other than, say, using Timeform - BUT ... Timeform, too - Have always run at a HIGHER LEVEL (Throughout their whole Range - just as Racing Post Ratings Also Do) than Official Ratings .... So - Double-Up the Issue/Problem, then - As Nothing is at all simply - 'Black and White'. |
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I should think roberto would have to be one of the six onlooker
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Jimnast
Sure he beat BG at York, but only won 1 of his next 5 races, Timeform rated him 131, way down the pecking order |
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Timeform's ratings for the flat
147 Frankel 145 Sea-Bird 144 Brigadier Gerard, Tudor Minstrel 142 Abernant, Ribot 141 Mill Reef 140 Dancing Brave, Dubai Millennium, Harbinger, Sea The Stars, Shergar, Vaguely Noble 139 Arrogate, Generous, Pappa Fourway, Reference Point |
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Almost all of that list from AT won top races over 12f but Frankel never tried it.
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That’s correct Andrew it was tongue in cheek my comment as the author is so biased towards bg I felt he must consider roberto to be one of the all time greats.
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Sprinter sacre never tried the gold cup trip but that doesn’t stop him been the most talented chaser of the last 50 years.
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That’s correct Andrew it was tongue in cheek my comment
 I think distance in horse racing is not an issue, is Usain Bolt an also ran because he only raced over 100/200 metres. Tudor Minstrel, one of the all time greats never won over 10f/12f on the only occasion tried at each trip (rated 144). Abernant was a sprinter (rated 142). |
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Agree Andrew sugar ray leonard the greatest boxer of all time never fought at heavyweight George best the most talented footballer ever never played in a World Cup let alone win one.Barry richards one of the greatest batsman ever never played many meaningful games at international level,
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Andrew.in.Sweden 17 Jul 22 15:44
That’s correct Andrew it was tongue in cheek my comment Laugh I think distance in horse racing is not an issue, is Usain Bolt an also ran because he only raced over 100/200 metres. Tudor Minstrel, one of the all time greats never won over 10f/12f on the only occasion tried at each trip (rated 144). Abernant was a sprinter (rated 142). I think we must take the classic distances as to how we judge the best horses. |
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Dayjur one of the best horses I've ever seen
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Reference Point would have given Dancing Brave a nice lead until being blown away, imo
One pound diff is strange. |
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Absolutely a-t and what a hurdler he would have made the speed at which he could jump was breathtaking.
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We’re timeform ratings not available from 1979
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You can only beat what you have around you at the time.
The problem with rating Frankel was that he never raced against a really top class horse. The best he beat was probably Cirrus Des Aigles (130) who he beat one and three quarter lengths at level weights. Being generous I would have him around 136. (BHA 140) |
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I respect anyone's opinion, the betting game is dependent on it.
Barstool, you are forgetting Excelebration (rated 125) who he beat 11L |
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Sir nicholas abbey and fahr were not to shabby either and let’s not forget canford cliffs all of which he demolished,regarding cirrius frankel only ran that day on the bad ground because so many from around the globe had come to say farewell to a horse who had lit up racing for 3 seasons the connections felt it would be unfair to disappoint them,
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Andrew,
Side Glance 113 was a neck behind Excelebration and anothe 108 rate horse a couple of lengths behind. Maybe Exelbration ran below par that day. |
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Side glance 11 lengths behind frankel in Queen Anne
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It was the Queeen Anne I was referring too.
Apologies for not making that clear. |
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Frankel's generation was exceptional - during his 4yo season almost no Group 1 WFA races were won by 3yos. Conversely in his 3yo season virtually all the top all-age races were mopped-up by his fellow 3yos
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I very much doubt that generation was superior to the 1970 one.
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You only have to compare the 2000 guineas fields.
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Even I agree frankels Guineas was the worst ever assembled taking out him of course sparrow,can’t really remember the opposition Nijinsky faced in 1970
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What is a fact frankel destroyed every field he came up against bar the st James palace but even on his of day he won,others great champions were beaten on there of days.
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Sorry jimnast as I meant 1971 race in which Brigadier beat Mill Reef and My Swallow. I simply can't believe that Frankel wouldn't have stayed 12f and as a result cannot rate him alongside Ribot, Sea Bird and others that have been mentioned.
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I knew you meant 71 sparrow regarding 12 furlongs the way he won at York and ascot I think he would have got the trip at the highest level but we will never know.
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I tend to agree jimnast but many Frankel fans said he wouldn't and others claimed it was because Cecil was a sick man and didn't want to risk the horse.
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I think you have been around long enough sparrow to know people talk utter nonsense about racing that unforgettable day at ascot sir Henry risked him on unsuitable ground for the sake of the paying public and to be fair teddy grinthorpe
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You only have to compare the 2000 guineas fields.
BG had Mill Reef (not a miler) but My Swallow was already a spent force - never got close to winning another race |
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The greatest ever single season was by Sea The Stars.
Group 1s from 8f to 12f - a win in every month from May to October including the Derby and Arc - Europe's 2 most prestigious races. Every race but one overseas - clear daylight over everything he defeated. He was better than Dancing Brave and I doubt I'll see one as good as him again. |
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Mill Reef was a very pacy animal and a very, very high class one, to say he was not a miler is a bit unfair, the only horse he could not beat at that distance was Brigadier Gerard. Mill Reef was top class from 8f -12f as was Brigadier Gerard. We have never had two horses as good as three and four year olds and will be very lucky to ever again.
Always thougt it was a pity Sea the Stars did not go for the Triple Crown aged 3 and for the Arc as a 4yo. As you sat A_T, some horse!. |
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frankel was the best uk flat horse I have seen.
But he was campaigned very conservatively. The Aussies offered to fly Frankel over and have him take on Black Caviar over 7f I believe. Then when BC travelled over to the ROyal meet connections of Frankel avoided a potential race for the ages by running in the Queen Anne. At odds of about 10 to one on i believe. Black Caviar got injured in the Golden Jubilee but still won. She was never off the bridle until inside the last furlong when Jockey Luke Nolen realised something was amiss and got after her. I have rarely seen a G1 spring won in such a fashion. I think Mick Channon got it right when he said that Black Caviar was a better horse than Frankel. |