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Crowley is one ruthless facker.
Crowley is one ruthless facker.
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duffy 04 Jul 22 00:49
People are taking for granted that Crowley looking over his shoulder and seeing Havlin means that Havlin was already in the gap, which it doesn't. I believe that Havlin wasn't in the gap and after being sat there watching it for too long he only went for it when it was too late. driver2 04 Jul 22 04:19 You should've gone to Specsavers duffy. |
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and the stewards too it seems
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watch the replay..come back and tell me when havlin made his move there wasnt any gap..
and we nah the stwards are clowns. |
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Only a side on view or drone shot will shed any meaningful light on the gap at the time of Havlins move, being an I/R bettor, you'll know how difficult a single head on shot is to make an accurate judgment, I can't believe that in an age of drone shots one hasn't been produced for this.
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It would be nice to hear a recording of the conversation in the stewards room too - if only there was some way of recording human beings talking to each other?
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i seen the hd on after the race on sat..there was a 5-6ft gap when havlin made his move..even on SL replay havlin is within 1/2L minimum when crowley edges over.
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replay on rtv now.
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No side on or drone shot then, I see.
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there you go...clear as day..a big gap when havlin made his move and got near crowley when he edged back to rail..shocking decision.
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crowley went from 5-6ft off the rail back to a yd from the rail.
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5-6ft really?
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3f out he was 5ft from the rail.
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Why wouldn't there have been a drone shot available, ITV have shown them before, what happened here?
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the drone shot isn't the one you need it's the scout camera, said on the other thread saturday i suspect the rail is not dead true to the line and that crowley runs straight while the rail coming in closes the gap, won't know unless we see the rear shot but mr cook in his piece is also alluding to seeing the view the stewards had
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"i suspect the rail is not dead true to the line and that crowley runs straight while the rail coming in closes the gap"
That is a very good point elise...I hadn't thought of that.....if true that would surely exonerate Crowley of any offence... |
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A drone shot would show the gap and when Havlin went for it, I agree to the suggestion that Crowley's horse does not appear to markedly come across at the time just before the interference and if you watch Eshaada in isolation you can see as much, however it's the view of the gap initially, whilst Havlin was sat there staring at it followed by the then interference that has suggested too many that it must be Crowley that was at fault.
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if the rail isn't true then havlins gap was closing before he got through & whilst it existed initially he may have misjudged it, if so then it makes sense as to why havlin got the ban and not crowley
i suspect if he appeals we'll hear the details but the stewards should have cleared this up properly because their report makes little sense when you view it from the tv shots we got |
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"the stewards should have cleared this up properly"
Spot on....because if that was the case......then what looked an extremely dangerous incident live on ITV risking the lives of both horses and jockeys, could have been explained to the viewing public and helped educate all and prevent those with a particular axe to grind from jumping on a particular band wagon(animal rights for example, if they have I don't know). That would mean possibly the racecourse admitting being partly to blame for the incident though?....we are all speculating at the moment, apart from in what we saw, until the facts come out in the hearing re the true line of the running rail. |
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It also begs the question....should a jockey stay 5-6 ft away from and parallel to the rail all the way to the line, or take the shortest route from A to B if the rail is not staying straight?
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They are all plastic rails,no course has a straight rail that
is truly straight,they all weave in and out a touch. |
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On a lighter note...come on Badosa....on BBC1......she's quite a looker and I'm a sucker for a looker
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That MO paid off for me yesterday with Maria who I got at 70 in running .....and before anyone asks.....for peanuts...but still nice for me
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It also begs the question....should a jockey stay 5-6 ft away from and parallel to the rail all the way to the line, or take the shortest route from A to B if the rail is not staying straight?
the latter would be a green light for jockeys lurching to the rail on bends because in theory that would be the straightest route |
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they do bend but in the case of haydock (and others) they sometimes funnel the finish, until you see the view the stewards had it's either a possibility that havlin fecked up or a possibility that the stewards did, sadly the stewards are not known for consistent accurate calls so we're not able to determine based on what we can see
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Sorry A_T......I didn't mean bends .....thought it was obvious that I was talking about the straight as per the incident in question....hey ho
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it's OK layemall I knew what you meant
looking at what "careless" riding can mean Horse hangs in on bend without rider taking any action. arguably if the rail moved towards Crowley rather than the other way round then JC was guilty of that i.e. he didn't stop his horse from hanging into the bending rail and impeding Havlin Horse drifts into another without rider straightening it up, either by switching his whip, or, if that is insufficient, by using his reins. again that looks like something of which Crowley might be guilty a lot depends on arbitrary definitions of "bend" and "straight" whatever the case I don't believe Havlin did anything careless - Crowley almost certainly did |
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if crowley is running straight and the rail comes out he's not required to run parallel to it to allow a gap to continue, the gap which may have been there is going to disappear and the rider behind is responsible for either clearing him before that constriction or he must decide to go around, in addition he's got a horse to his outer, but until we see what the stewards saw it's guesswork
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there seems to be a school of thought that a jockey is entitled do whatever necessary to stop another coming up the inside. Nowhere was this better illustrated than Jason Weaver at Royal Ascot saying Coroebus was lucky in the SJPS because the rider of the horse in front kept a straight line and didn't stop it coming up the rail.
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it's more about the actual circumstances at that track at that point in the race, each track being different and if the rail closed the gap then it makes sense to me as to why havlin got the ban, if it doesn't then the stewards are d1cks
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if crowley is running straight and the rail comes out he's not required to run parallel to it to allow a gap to continue
if the rail comes out arguably it's a bend so Crowley falls foul of Horse hangs in on bend without rider taking any action. |
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it's not a bend, it's possibly a funnel finish, ive not said bend
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still changes nowt, unless you can see what the stewards acted upon application of any rule is pointless, you need to see the race from all angles and they never supplied them nor did they explain it in the stewards report so that it made sense with what was shown on tv
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Can anyone really argue they haven't seen many winners come up and win along a rail (inside run)?
Really? |
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no one is arguing on here that they can't as far as i can see
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RTV showing now
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if the stewards fecked up i hope they sack the lot of them, but doubt the bha will ever have the b@lls to make an example of them no matter how many times they get it wrong
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I can't accept that Crowley gets away with that scot free and Havlin 5 days.
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nor can i on the head on, but im suggesting a reason as to why the stewards might have a different opinion with a different view, if that view is the same then havlin is probably going to win an appeal
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I can't agree at all with the stewards when they say "Havlin was suspended for 5 days for careless riding as he persisted and
committed for his run into an insufficient gap which was only briefly viable between the running rail and ESHAADA" |
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Insufficient gap is the crux of the matter it seems.
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