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15 Mar 22
22:21
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30 Jan 05
21 runners in the Fred Winter, so you would have thought that this race was truly run.
Constitution Hill was 14 (fourteen) seconds faster.
Brazil was carrying 2 lb more. Weight for age is 8 lb for 4yo's. Brazil was rated 137.
14 secs = 68 lb over 16.5 furlongs on my figures. That gives Constitution Hill a rating of 195.
No horse is that good, but he did beat JPR One (rated 129) by 57 lengths, so that would give him a rating of 184 on my calculations.
Again, that's implausible. So let's look at the worst case. Compare Constitution Hill's race against the Racing Post's standard time for the 20 furlong mares' hurdle.
That race was 2.4 secs over standard, while Constitution Hill was fast by 4.65 secs. That is a 33 lb advantage to Constitution Hill on my figures, plus 2 lb for carrying 2 lb more. Call it 35 lb.
Maries Rock, the winner of the mares' race, beat Nada To Prada, a 300/1 shot rated 126, by 9.5 lengths, or 8 lb over that trip. So Maries Rock ran to 133. Which gives Constitution Hill a speed figure of 168, eased down.
Honeysuckle is rated 165, but would be getting the mares allowance at Punchestown.
What a contest that would be!
Constitution Hill was 14 (fourteen) seconds faster.
Brazil was carrying 2 lb more. Weight for age is 8 lb for 4yo's. Brazil was rated 137.
14 secs = 68 lb over 16.5 furlongs on my figures. That gives Constitution Hill a rating of 195.
No horse is that good, but he did beat JPR One (rated 129) by 57 lengths, so that would give him a rating of 184 on my calculations.
Again, that's implausible. So let's look at the worst case. Compare Constitution Hill's race against the Racing Post's standard time for the 20 furlong mares' hurdle.
That race was 2.4 secs over standard, while Constitution Hill was fast by 4.65 secs. That is a 33 lb advantage to Constitution Hill on my figures, plus 2 lb for carrying 2 lb more. Call it 35 lb.
Maries Rock, the winner of the mares' race, beat Nada To Prada, a 300/1 shot rated 126, by 9.5 lengths, or 8 lb over that trip. So Maries Rock ran to 133. Which gives Constitution Hill a speed figure of 168, eased down.
Honeysuckle is rated 165, but would be getting the mares allowance at Punchestown.
What a contest that would be!
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Screaming
Honeysuckle would have to concede 3lb to CH at Punchestown |
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Is that so? Thanks. I'm not half as well informed as I thought I was then.
No wonder Buckley wants to take Honeysuckle on there. |
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4 year old allowance
Honeysuckle 11st 7lb Constitution Hill 11st 4lb Good luck |
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I'm struggling to think of a better performance on the clock over hurdles, ever.
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Constitution Hill is a 5yo.
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It was special.
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Constitution Hill is a 5yo.
Oops. Many apologies Screaming |
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never understood why people go overboard with times..very fast times will only be reproduced under the same circumstances..ie fast sectionals..certainly doesnt mean the fastest horse in a field will win every time.
constitutional hills race was 3.5 secs faster 1st--2nd hurdle than the champion hurdle as it was run at a furious pace..doesnt mean honeysuckle is inferior. |
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Interesting race comment about DD. Took keen hold, led, not fluent 1st, not fluent 2nd, joined after 5th, going easily when fell heavily 3 out
Going easily - really? |
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me-not fluent 1st & 2nd..led racing keenly..disp from 4 out.still travelling ok when fell 3 out..
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Speed figures are a piece of the jigsaw.
They were really useful thirty years ago, when hardly anyone knew how they were calculated, and people needed top-notch mental arithmetic to work them out even if they did. Calculating them was a LOT of hard work. They gave me an edge, in other words, and they made me a lot of money. Nowadays it's all common knowledge, and people have these computer thingies to work them out too. I rarely bother with speed figures now. But when you see something like Constitution Hill today, I think it's worth dissecting it, just to make sure that seeing is believing. It was. |
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Barely lifted his legs at that hurdle, shows why SG was switched, mainly because DD simply could not go up in trip rather than the longer trip suiting DD.
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Visually, CH today reminded me of Frankel in the Guineas. The way he put 10 lengths into Jonbon coming round the home bend was a sight to behold, and he extended to the line.
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It was one of the weakest supremes for years. Despite pre race hype.
All of Mullins supreme winners had won a g1/2. Dysart dynamo was a maiden hurdle winner. Mighty potter had been beat by 2 horses that had gone on to be beat by sir Gerard by more than 50L. Last years bumper is looking like a poor renewal. Kilcruit has struggled. And the 3rd and 4th look very average losing more than winning. Constitution hill looks like a good supreme winner but the rest look poor. Jonbon will be a chaser in the future. Good luck sir Gerard backers in the ballymore. You ll need it. |
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All of Mullins supreme winners had won a g1/2. Dysart dynamo was a maiden hurdle winner.
won a gr2 lto. |
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Re the DD race comments, three of us watching all agreed it couldn't have finished in the first three the way it was racing.
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Kilcruit has struggled
Won a 20-runner Punchestown maiden by 21 lengths in a "canter" last time out. Just needed the first-time tongue tie. And the 3rd and 4th look very average losing more than winning The third is Kilcruit. The fourth has only had one run over hurdles in its life - won it by 8 lengths. Prior to that it had three starts for Andre Fabre and won the last two. And, as rico points out, Dysart Dynamo won a Grade 2 lto. Are you sure you're looking at the correct race, comingupthehill? |
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comingupthehill's got previous form as well!!!
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What of being a poor judge??
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I hope Constitution Hill goes for the novice's race this season. Plenty of time for us anticipate the clash in next years Champion Hurdle. Honeysuckle keeps getting crabbed (by one idiot in particular} but with the mares allowance finishes her races superbly with that turn of foot she possesses. Constitution Hill was spectacular the way he hurdles and finished the race and the clocks confirmed the performance. Not many Supreme winners go on to win the Champion Hurdle for some reason.
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21 runners in the Fred Winter, so you would have thought that this race was truly run.
except it wasn't It was one of the weakest supremes for years. Despite pre race hype.  never understood why people go overboard with times there's like a zillion examples why...that C Hill could run in the 140s on racecourse debut barely turning a hair one of them |
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21 runners in the Fred Winter, so you would have thought that this race was truly run.
except it wasn't _________ No argument there. As I said, it would have given Constitution Hill a speed figure of 195(!) if it had been. That's why I dug right down into the eighth-placed horse in the mares' hurdle, to get Constitution Hill's speed figure as low as I possibly could. And it STILL comes out at 168, eased down. Astonishing. |
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Was astonishing Screaming.
Prufrock will be all over this like a rash. Write up in sectional spotlight tomoz. After going such a strong pace in the Supreme you would have expected a drop of in sectional times from 2 out as compared with the champion hurdle was hotting up off a slow pace. Honeysuckle bolted away from her field but was still 1.3 seconds (around 6.5 lengths)slower than Constitution from the 2nd last to line. |
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i think for once 'a freak' is an apt description...got a temperament you dream of in a racehorse
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You have to allow for the ease of the victory as well. I would estimate that Constitution hill could have run at least 5 lengths quicker and still not have been flat out. Time will tell us what he beat but I would be very surprised if he would not have been second at worst in yesterdays Champion hurdle.
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the clock says he would have comfortably.
Push button acceleration. |
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So you think he would have finished in front of stable companion Epitante
 Brave call  |
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Beaten her in a gallop last week
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The VERY BEST geldings will always thrash even the best mares. The only times mares have won the champion where were the Sea Pigeons Night Nurses Monksfields Istabraqs ?
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I do and there was a strong rumour yesterday that CH had beaten Epatante in a gallop which seems perfectly believable. When I heard it before the Supreme I thought "Oh yes, what were the weights, distance etc". as I had not been convinced by CH in his previous race and left the Supreme alone.
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That is a very strong statement howard. Ever heard of Petite Etoile, Enable, Goldikova. Not hurdles but they beat the best Colts as well as geldings. Honeysuckle has dominated 2 years worth of the best geldings in training. CH might beat her but I don't see any other danger on the horizon if she stays in training.
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They beat the best around at the time. Which fillies beat the greatest of last 50 +years ? Frankel , Sea the Stars , Brigadier Gerard , Mill Reef ,Galileo , Shergar and many more. Think it's zero.
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Jonbon 22 lengths behind Constitution Hill.
Astonishing. |
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£100k carrot being dangled by 'paddy' for this beast to duel (and win) against Honeysuckle at Punchestown Festival. Are you listening Hendo? Buckley will no hesitation in saying yes. But, Hendo a creature of habit?
I hope Constitution Hill goes over, and leaves Hendo behind. |
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Would be good to see but Honeysuckle's had 15 runs over hurdles
and is a dual Chmpn where Constitution Hill's only had the 3 . No disgrace if they don't take her on. |
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Constitution Hill awarded a rating of 170 in the anglo-irish jumps classification, a record high for a novice hurdler hurdle, Honeysuckle given a rating of 165.
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Timeform given him a rating of 177p.
hope he matches up to these figures next season.  |
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Honeysuckle would Receive 7lb Mares Allowance in a race ...
Making them ... Honeysuckle - 172 Constitution - 170 |
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Constitution Hill, Honeysuckle, Vauban and State Man is a race to savour (and 2 of my favourite hurdlers).
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