THESE FKN BETFAIR BOTS ...PRICE IS THERE TO BACK AND THEN WHEN PLACING THE BETS THE ODDS DISAPPEAR

pre race? in running?

My BOT just texted me and asked could you tone down the language please , we all have to eat.

Are people still betting here? Still accepting this? No thanks.

This is the same drivel we hear from the people who want lay guarantees from the books. It assumes only one punter.

In the real world, where there are lots of people trying to back the same horse at the same price, they cannot all be first in the queue. Most of them will not be first.

Can never understand these Threads .

Been here 18 years - and very few complaints- in fact , often get matched at Bigger than I am asking for.

I can only assume that they are moistly 'one tick merchants' trying to eek out every last halfpenny out of the (possibly Trade) - and not wishing to risk a Farthing themselves.

It takes a skilled operator to beat the bots at their own game.

In fairness to the OP, it does happen in sports betting but I personally haven't experienced in horse racing.

Maybe that explains it, then - Deplasterer

I am almost exclusively a Horse Racing bettor.

Why does the OP - and other complainants - not post their grievances on the - General Betting - Forum, then.

Ironically, it would be more convincing if bot-authors made the same complaint, as they could presumably check the timestamps between prices being offered and taken.

It might also be possible to write a bot to test the OP's complaint. Write a bot that checks a price repeatedly and try to place a bet every (say) 100 goes. If the price only disappears when the bet is attempted but not during the no-bet price checks, then something fishy is afoot.

its pre race ,the same has been happening to me for about 6 months ,from every 10 attempts ,i get the "advertised" price about once id say ,it just disappears to be replaced by a much lower price as soon as i press the button .

Has the OP disappeared?

For some people, is there perhaps a mismatch between the stake asked for, and the stake set on the betting view options? A lot of people set £2 so they can see the overrounds, but that can be misleading if you are betting in hundreds or even in tenners.

I have the same experience constantly - dogs and horses - anyone with a decent brain knows exactly what's going on, just nowhere else to go - it's criminal

ProSniper 31 May 21 17:56 
It takes a skilled operator to beat the bots at their own game.


correct..thats now the name of the game..beatthebot.

I was mainly expressing my anger at this practice that is clearly in place these days... it seems my opening post disappeared also .. Fkn C U NT S

depends on which settings they've established on your a/c.  hence some agree with you, others haven't got a clue what you're on about.

40 in the lay box...click to lay 390 and guess what you lay?

an egg ?

yes..in your case unfertilised.

too easy, get in.

Well those who don't know or it hasnt happened to them yet are clearly unaware .. It happens more so when not much liquidity in market or new markets where not much activity has taken place .. The price could be there at 2.76 with 50 say available to back.... place bet 50 and no matched bet... 2.76 is now in lay side in the request box for 50 and best new available price to back is 2.72 for a couple ticks less ... Yes the monetary value is small on this example but its the practice of it that is just DISGUSTING. Its not a case of missing the price it is clear fkn margin rape by the bots

if you get matched you'll find the market will instantly move against you ... and for whoever matched you

Haha at OP

Irish Wizard - you don't need a bot to strike a bet at 2.76 and immediately try to lay it off at 2.72. I am staggered that you are surprised by this. What have you been doing for 15 years, apart from perhaps losing and getting cross.

enticement 

pro-sniper you are so right,,i bet early morning and the bots are on overdrive at those hours,,,used to get angry but now i can generally guess whats gonna happen,,,so its like a battle,,patience and perserverance rquired

roberto tuned to perfection...tis all about %.

I agree with Steve ...The bot strangling the life out of in running.

Lay (Bet Against)
Backer's odds
Backer's stake
Payout
Liability
Miquelon
40
£0.37
£14.43
Miquelon
44
£0.25
£10.75
Miquelon
50
£0.10
£4.90
Miquelon
55
£0.06
£3.24
Miquelon
65
£0.25
£16.00
Miquelon
70
£0.03
£2.07
Miquelon
75
£0.21
£15.54
Miquelon
80
£1.25
£98.75
Miquelon
95
£4.26
£400.44

10 in the lay box..click 95 and hey presto..

Ive never used custom columns, but what does transaction log show when you click 95?
Does it so the snapshot of the market to the right for each fragmented odd matched?
If it does then that would show how little money was in at each price when you clicked wouldnt it?

Look at the time of the click and the response time and see if there was actually still any money hanging around after the point you bet actually gets matched
Id say there wasnt

it matters not whats in the box..roberto detects an overide and thats what thou gets..

but the transaction log would show the money thats still available to everyone else then
Unless you are implying they create a whole different market viewable for each user?

I reckon that the time it takes for the bet to match (1.2s) you miss the 10s and no fooker wants to back the horse you want to lay for any reasonable money between 10s and 95 cos all the dummies went belly up ages ago and not everyone playing a tight game

dusty , sometimes my transaction log boxes are empty

at the time of the bet matching?
Doesnt that imply the money been missed?

ahh , i didn't know that , thanks

If I have what ppl are thinking correct...wouldnt it mean that bf would have to emulate a whole market snapshot for gruss to capture that was completely false for each individual user?
Im highly sceptical at such a crazy idea.
The simplest explanation is the time it takes to match the little money there was has been cancelled

reiteration...

it matters not whats in the box..roberto detects an overide and thats what thou gets..

feel sorry for anyone reading this that thought it was person to person on here.  probably just close the laptop & take up gardening or something ...

green
but the snapshot in gruss will show the story of the timing of the bet matching, if you click twice the second bet timing will show how you missed the money
For the timings to be correct that would mean they artificially creat a whole false market
Think about it

https://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/31610699/phantom-in-running-place-market-prices?post_id=558684233#558684233

this is what may be happening in the win market now

when you click to take the 12.5 , the one second delay allows "someone" to see you want to take the 12.5 and they cancel that bet and move the odds lower

when i use to venture into the place market , i had a strike rate that was impossible to create of the odds i click on disappearing within the 1 second delay , unless someone could see my incoming bet within the delay

you dont show the bets that do get matched either...do you honestly expect every bet to be plump?
My cup runeth over

i miss whats in the 1st pink box 99/100

mite just be a coincidence though

so pabs what does everyone else see if the bet vanishes?
If that were the case everytime all the paranoid tried to match anything either everyone else would see the money vanish too, or everyone sees different markets

gray a hyperthetical q for you..

you're a bookmaker,you going 10/1 a horse.. i shouted out hey gray,i'll have £100 on that.happy to take anything down to evens..

what price do you return me?

so on that example
Every market would vanish infront of eveyones eyes as everyone tried to place a bet eveyone else would be impacted....
Unless you are saying just your markets vanish, inline with the timestamping, meaning all those who get targetted are shown different markets
Nah not for me
You just missed the price and no one put any money in at that very second and your fill or kill means it doesnt hang around

and why does it pull some bets and lets you match others?
Is it c0ck teasing?

so pabs what does everyone else see if the bet vanishes?
If that were the case everytime all the paranoid tried to match anything either everyone else would see the money vanish too, or everyone sees different markets

i don't know dusty , i am not saying that the market is catered for each individual . all i know is that more times than not if i tried to click whatever price was available in the grid , it was about 80% of the time the bet would not get matched and them odds would disappear

dusty..please place the dunces cap on ya heed.

tar.

i don't know dusty , i am not saying that the market is catered for each individual . all i know is that more times than not if i tried to click whatever price was available in the grid , it was about 80% of the time the bet would not get matched and them odds would disappear

spot on.

so you not going to say why it lets you win then?

maybe robert got a soft side

gray a hyperthetical q for you..

you're a bookmaker,you going 10/1 a horse.. i shouted out hey gray,i'll have £100 on that.happy to take anything down to evens..

what price do you return me?

Always easier playing with marked cards

I'm with dusty on this.

In order for the money to be pulled only when a particular punter tried to match it, a different view of the market would have to be supplied to every one of us, depending on whether we were trying to match a particular price or not, so that price could be pulled from our view - while still being shown to every other player to tempt them to do the same.

That seems a lot of effort to achieve - what exactly?

longbridge, my point about the place market is that it is geared towards everyone

some very very naive people still trying to BTB.

robert clealy loves drone players then
otherwise he'd stop all your bets and not just the LV ones

robert loves people who use an overide.

quite simple.

and you still aint answered my q.

Immaterial as far as I can see
You'd have to believe bf simulates individual markets and I dont think any nutter hear believes that.
Look at the timestamps, you can unpick what happens from there

here

ok end of convo..must just be me.

dusty , what could be happening to willie is that when he clicks 390 for £10 , and the current odds to lay are 40 , within the 1 second delay the 40 is cancelled as the bot can see 390 has been requested and he is accommodated as to whatever they can give , without giving the 40

so why does it allow him to win 50k a quarter then?
Where does it draw the line over the scrutiny of each bet?
Any why do they correlate with wins when he has a larger advantage?

i had dusty down as intelligent..yet pabs got it sussed.

regardless of my p&l of which a lot was from photo's/stewards etc...

i still get 30 bets under 10p and £10 at 390 when i click 390.

i don't know the answer to them questions dusty .

You are converging 2 arguments
1 that highlights the cross matching bot that skims off value and even puts 'phantom bets' up which I suspect vanish as other people match the same interation on another selection (just as banks lend out instances of money held in a bank to numerous people)
and
2 some paranoia you feel when you dont get match...that happens to be when you are seeing the event around the same time everyone else is
Is a hard existence in those races, the eco system is falling, thats as far as Ill agree with you on this

i still get 30 bets under 10p and £10 at 390 when i click 390.

if thats to difficult to fathom out then i give up.

if that is to me dusty . what i saw in the place market is from my experience, others might get matched no problem , but from i could see it was near impossible for the majority of bets disappearing when i clicked the grid , i was not trying to back 1.01s or horses in the front 3 positions.

i could easily be wrong

do you think betfair play in the markets ?

The fragments could be bf attempting to make the markets look like they have more in them.
Its not a good look when there are large gaps between prices, but why do they allow fragments to be matched some races and let you dip your bread in others?

to greenie

gray a hyperthetical q for you..

you're a bookmaker,you going 10/1 a horse.. i shouted out hey gray,i'll have £100 on that.happy to take anything down to evens..

what price do you return me?

People looking for conspiracy need a cold flannel IMO.
Instead of dreaming up a policy were some people get targeted only under certain conditions -that just happens to be when they are more at parity with the market, I’d say it’s summed up as this;

Each bet gets converted and sprayed over each of the other runner’s lay odds, which explains all the pennies at larger odds.
The closer to market parity the more risk you have to take to win due to market efficiency.

That’s it, I don’t think there’s anything more sinister than that. The arse is falling out of IR, perhaps value is stripped in the calculation...but targeting individuals?
Nah.

Cant imagine any bookmaker targeting individuals

Each bet gets converted and sprayed over each of the other runner’s lay odds, which explains all the pennies at larger odds.

so.click 390 and 30 bets 180-380 under 10p and £10 at 390?

stop embarrassing yourself man.

By your question you implied that by telegraphing your intentions bf take advantage....except when they dont.
But I and I bet every other user experiences difficulty getting matched when attempting the conventional route of clicking th boxes with the prices in.
Whenever I fail to get matched I investigate the snapshot in gruss transaction log.
I click twice, so the second unmatched bet shows the truth.
The timestamp plus the latency of bet match determines whether the price in the second bet should have matched or not...if the bet is still available from first click theres a disparency...I have never experienced this happen, each time its simply a bet that lapsed or cancelled or taken by somebody else.

btw
do you honestly not know why theres money at 390 and not inbetween ffs?
Its cos you tell the world you are laying 290 or whatever or they look at the data after the race, and put up trap bets

390

leader at catterick..its 1.2 2 out..i click 330 wen its prob a sh hd down 50yds out..ev penny matched at 330...not spreading much about there

Horse Racing / Catterick 4th Jun : 1m4f Hcap
    04-Jun-21 14:25     04-Jun-21 14:29     94.89

Robert stalking you

1 bet in mths the best example you can muster?

Same happened to me in an in-play place market a few months ago.  Situation was 8 runner race, 3 TBP, only four horses still going.  Outsider of the four available to back £5 at 5.  I ask for it, the £5 is still there for the duration of the 1 sec delay, but my £5 isn't matched.  I reduce odds to 4.6.  During the 1 sec delay £5 at 5 reappears, the moment my 4.6 hits the market it's gone and I'm still unmatched.  I cancel my bet, £5 at 5 immediately reappears etc.  Kept happening all the way through the final mile of the race, as soon as I pull my bet, £5 at 5 reappears, the only second it isn't there is when my bet is in the market.

I can only assume that the £5 was made up of other prices and BF bot for some reason wouldn't match it, I have to assume I could have achieved a similar bet by laying all three other runners but that's very unsatisfactory during an IP market, and how do you know which money you can take and which you can't??

i've put up a few lays on the place markets this afternoon.  press submit, the bet appears straight away.  how did that get there so quickly ?  second later, values doubled as my bet hits. chances of same amount, same time, same odds ... nil.

^^ if you are fretting over fivers, I think whatever is going on is irrelevant, as playing in that market is a waste of time

Just saying that's the most blatant example of non-matching bots (cross-matching or not) I've ever seen

I think that there are bots that put in fill or kill small bets with a wide spread in both sides the market.  They want to be taken by ppl asking for lower and just wanting to get on, not by ppl precisely looking for value.

i put a lay in on daq..not much there i offer 200 while its 190 on bf..1 sec later bf is 210..i go 220..1 sec later bf 230...enticement.

so you're moving the market then.  didn't you say you can't do that ? 

http://www.momutech.com/

'attempting' too.

you're not moving it though.  PP traders are.  you're just 'helping'.

as i've been saying ...

i conker.

People focussing on the ‘bot’ miss the point.
Sure it’s tinkering, but that’s not why there’s no money in the markets.
That’s because there’s an ever decreasing pool of users putting money in.
The cross matcher attempts at spreading the money around but it’s more illusion than substance.
The only way the rot would be stopped would be to incentivise, but bf are clearly too stubborn.
PC keeps getting batted away as though it’s not the culprit, but when people end up wasting their time and money on here only for bf to take half many end up on a lower ‘wage’ than the law dictates so find another pursuit.
Each one that goes takes more liquidity with them (whether they are winners or losers since the bot has to churn something) and everyone inputs risk, and risk is the real collateral here.

The closest thing bf have to an AGM of actual exchange users is the QA
Go read it. It excuses all responsibility of PC every time, and essentially dooms horse racing IR on the exchange reading between the lines.
If they don’t see a reason to invest capex into the venture of IR then it’s a downward spiral.