How the hell has Captain Tom caught COVID ?

I ask because everyone I see on TV struggling to breathe while telling us to take it seriously has been visibly overweight.

28% obese 36% overweight and will only have got worse due to lockdown. I agree massive issue in the UK

Its just propaganda mainly from covid deniers the premise that people under 60 are safe unless they have underlying health problems.  Many of those considered to have died with 'underlying health problems' have something so mild that it would be incredibly unlikely to kill them pre covid thus distorting the figures. Covid can kill anyone 40+ if you happen to be unlucky.

If you are unlucky, anything can kill you!

So saddo and the dealer, does that mean that fat people deserve to die if they catch Covid19 as that is the inference from your posts. I am 76, not overweight, no respiratory issues and have a first vaccination on Wednesday. I will be shielding for at least another month and will then assess the risk at that time. If I happened to be approached by the media for an interview, they would get a dusty answer. Can't stand the people.

He hasn't had a bad innings.
Time to start looking after the youngster's!

Not at all but imo people who are obese or overweight but no underlying health issues are more at risk from covid being more severe than those not.

mat ...p****

My gran was 101. In great health right up to the end. Hope Tom gets over it and has her luck.

I agree the dealer and I personally don't respect those who make no effort to look after themselves but the NHS is free to all at the point of delivery. It does not discriminate on the grounds of negligence by patients who get smashed up in a drunken car crash, get cancer from smoking or are hospitalised with covid19 due mainly to being obese.

truehoncho,do you still maintain that covid is no worse than flu ?...and that hospitals are no busier than
they are in a normal winter.

It does not discriminate on the grounds of negligence by patients w  ---  you are wrong there Sageform, you won't get a liver transplant if you drink. There are many conversations in the NHS about treatment and patients lifestyles. Many op's and procedures wont be given to obese people people and in future smoking will have an effect on what treatment you get.

Sir Captain Tom is probably just not feeling too good, after all, he is 100! They would diagnose covid on a pancake if they thought it would hit the headlines. If the poor old fellow was to expire at ANY time from now on it will say covid on the DC, giving the rancid gov't even more power to promote lockdown and control. Members of my family breathed a sigh of relief when my father in law (86) was diagnosed with pneumonia. "Thank God it's not covid" they said! He died just before Christmas...from pneumonia!

truehoncho,do you still maintain that covid is no worse than flu ?...and that hospitals are no busier than
they are in a normal winter.   --- Absolutely

a normal winter in a decent flu season that is e.g 2017/18

a normal winter in a decent flu season that is e.g 2017/18

The number hospitalised with flu is down 95% on last year which demonstrates how easy it is to control with a vaccine AND social distancing. In a normal flu year, the NHS would have been overwhelmed by November 2020.

Thats just not the case Sageform. its nothing to do with vaccines otherwise why would we get big outbreaks every 4/5 years? e.g https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6446399/More-50-000-people-died-winter-England-Wales-severe-flu-outbreak.html

Its just when different strains come into play and of course this year those that would have been vulnerable to flu would probably have caught covid instead. They effect the same cohort of people.

Flu is still around....Latest ONS stats (week 2/21)

Of the 7,245 deaths in England and Wales that involved COVID-19, 6,510 had this recorded as the underlying cause of death (89.9%, Figure 2). Of the 5,273 deaths that involved Influenza and Pneumonia, 381 had this recorded as the underlying cause of death (7.2%).

The covid deniers don't like to hear about the flu vaccine controlling the disease.

Sparrow what a cheap nonsense comment. Of course vaccine don't control flu every year. Thats why Public Health England produce a annual flu surveillance report to assess the efficacy of that years vaccine. Many years it is very poor. You just a covid proper gander merchant.

You really do come out with some ridiculous comments honcho.

My comment was accurate and yours was just snidey. You displayed your lack of understanding about vaccines in the process. Covid deniers??? What a dopey remark.

More people were vaccinated for flu this season to reduce the number of serious cases. I still think that the lockdowns have had a dramatic affect on flu and that anyone over 70 should continue to wear masks and social distance to control a whole range of respiratory diseases. I certainly will be doing so for the rest of my life. How many people have you seen with the common cold since Xmas? I ran a high health pig herd for 30 years and we insisted on people showering, wearing clothing that we provided and disinfecting vehicles at the farm gate for the whole of that time so I am well versed in animal disease prevention techniques which humans are hopeless at.

Oh yes honcho only you really understand the situation and the medical profession have obviously much to learn from you.

Sparrow, I posted a perfectly reasonable comment with some supporting info. You got your snidey comment wrong and now you are trying to twist it into something else. You re like a silly child determined to have the last word. You were WRONG, get over it.

The South African variant has been found in 10 areas of England so what do Sky News do? Send Enda Brady to the middle of one of the affected areas together with a cameraman and sound techie no doubt. What can they possibly do there that they can't do from a studio or from home apart from risk spreading it? Arrest them immediately for breaking lockdown.

How many current professional footballers have died from it ? That shows you how many young non-obese it kills.

It's you honcho that always has to have the last word and if you tell me that you are not a Covid denier and accept the excess deaths this country has suffered as a result of Covid then I will apologise.

Feb 1, 2021 -- 10:03AM, ericster wrote:

saddo, if people had taken their heads out of their arzes, been a little less selfish, the first lockdown might have been enough. Think of all those people who [MIGHT] not have died.

load of tosh

Biggest crime we committed over here was that we nether did one thing or the other, ensuring that we suffered the maximum from all ways round.

Excess deaths??? They are just that, (I suggets you look at 2018/18 data) excess deaths with huge links to the pointless lock down. Yet again a relentless nonsense of making up terms like covid deniers to try and make your argument somehow relevant or take the moral high ground. You are completely oblivious to the stress this lockdown causes millions and resultant health issues that it causes. I remember your heartless comment back in March when I told you about over 70's dying in isolation due to the proposed lockdown. You heartless comment was something like 'us over 70's can look after ourselves', as though you represent the millions of over 70's in this country. I see you are getting your last word in again. 38000 posts in 6 months (over 200 a day), I can't compete with that sorry, I have a life. Goodbye.

38000 posts in 6 months, yeah right......time for you to give it a rest I think honcho.

saddo
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01 Feb 21 13:17Joined: 04 Dec 05 | Topic/replies: 41,058 | Blogger: saddo's blog
How many of these people you hear about are fat? Obesity is a huge underlying health problem, there are millions under 60.


Johnson hasn't learned his lesson and admitted on the Andrew Marr show he was lucky to be alive after getting the virus. Has a personal trainer now.


Don't know who should be sacked first. He's tying his best for the country but 3 stone less would appeal to the country more if he lost the weight.

sageform 01 Feb 21 13:42 
NHS is free to all at the point of delivery. It does not discriminate on the grounds of negligence by patients who get smashed up in a drunken car crash, get cancer from smoking or are hospitalised with covid19 due mainly to being obese.



Lets see if overweight people are hounded and treated as pariahs like smokers and drink drivers. I very much doubt they will be.

What's wrong with drink drivers being treated like pariahs?

the first lockdown might have been enough

during the first lockdown hundreds of flights were arriving every day from every covid disaster zone on the planet.  with no checks on arrival for anyone.  call that a lockdown ?

Considering you are talking with hindsight Hulk what do you they should have done then? They were almost all British nationals returning home and we didn't have the test and trace facilities we have now. France and Portugal are now in deep trouble a year later. Hindsight is a wonderful thing to a punter.

said it at the time.  said it last march.

Duffy, nothing. What's wrong with fat people being told to shape up to save the NHS?

brigust1
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Considering you are talking with hindsight Hulk what do you they should have done then? They were almost all British nationals returning home and we didn't have the test and trace facilities we have now. France and Portugal are now in deep trouble a year later. Hindsight is a wonderful thing to a punter.


Try telling that to the 70-80 thousand Aussies who cant get into their own country.

38,000 posts in six months!

I’ve heard so many overweight people say ‘I’ve no idea why I’m so fat, I hardly eat anything’ , then gorge themselves silly nearly every hour of the day.

I would start by weighing em at airports, they weigh luggage to the kilo but an extra  20kg on yer arse, no problem.

Can't compare fat people to drink drivers absolute nonsense, one directly puts other lives at risk and the other doesn't.

Course they as do smokers,drug abusers etc etc

It’s not worth taking drugs unless you’re gonna abuse them!

I'm average build but with a stomach I need to address but what (I'm thinking of the word here) saddens me is watching hospital programmes and seeing a lot of nurses obese. You would think...'they know better' but we're all human.


You see it everywhere on the likes of 24 hours in A&E etc. You would think they would know better being professionals but that's the way it is.


As for myself I could be well comfy losing 2 stone. (miss stew rolls her eyes back every time I mention it) but all I have to do is cut out the beer and (on a GP's advice) eat 800 calories per day. That's easy for me but 5-6 beers is 1000 calories a pop.

More mindset now given the pandemic.

duffy, the largest group at risk under 60 are overweight, they should mostly brush this illness off, but instead quite a few are in high dependency beds. Does this not put other lives at risk if these beds are all taken?

saddo,
I get your point but I'm not ordering it alongside someone getting in their car half cut and knocking someone down and killing them....but that's just me!

lockdown like the 1st 2 is working,difference this time is the vacc might help stop a spike when restrictions are lifted

Ok duffy, my reply was to someone who mentioned drink drivers and smokers, you seized on just one of those points, fair enough.

They should have stopped all incoming flights 9 month ago, apart from people getting back from hols at the time and testing them as well. Only flights going out should have been people getting home themselves. Instead they have allowed millions in and out over the last 9 month for holidays etc FFS and 'Business Meetings' including Brexit meetings which could have been done via video conferencing.
We all want a holiday but what's the point if you can't have a Good time and put yourself in danger, more importantly you may pass on to your more vulnerable relatives and others.
I am overweight and my own fault lol, but it seems unless you weigh within half a stone of your suggested weight, your f****ng obese.
I am pretty sure there are plenty of less deserving twunts in front of me, should it come to being treated on NHS.

You’re certainly right about the weight thing 4builder4. It seems to go from being the correct weight to obese very rapidly.

Poor old Tom on his last legs by the look of things

Saw out his century in Barbados in the sun though!

What is - smiley - about ...

"Poor old Tom on his last legs by the look of things"
-----------------

You are a twisted cynical Leftie Covid Denier - leif. 

Reporter still holding a vigil outside hospital just to tell everyone he has no news.

Other than his family are with him....which I thought they couldn’t do?

Feb 1, 2021 -- 6:06PM, 1st time poster wrote:

lockdown like the 1st 2 is working,difference this time is the vacc might help stop a spike when restrictions are lifted

From what seems to be being implied (admittedly most of what is being said is quite vague and wishy washy), the vaccine does not stop you from getting it, it just stops you from getting it badly.  Chances are you will still be able to host it and pass it on to others (who may or may not have had the vaccine).  Of course, this is good for the NHS, but it's not the silver bullet it's been portrayed to be.  There is also considerable concern about vaccine efficacy against the many and increasing number of mutations the virus is undergoing.

....which is why they say they need something like 80% vaccine coverage for it to be effective.
Smart money is on cancelled summer.
2020 Olympics no chance IMO.

Agreed.  I'm expecting this summer to not be dissimilar to last.

Infection rate Dropping  , once the NHS can handle things restrictions will be Lifted ,what we Meant to do stay locked up for the next 10 years ?

Co-Vid wont be going anywhere for a long time , Thousands dying every year from flu Pneumonia , once deaths reach an acceptible Figure say 20,000

Per anum that will be it , no Lockdowns for flu and pneumonia each year which peak about this time,hardly hear a word about those deaths ,year or

two Co vid will be same .

Anyone who wants to stay in Lockdown can no one is stopping them .

AS for 80 % they have Jabbed 20 % so far Would imagine 80 % by end of may TBH at the latest ,of course we have people wont take the vaccine will not help .

Far less than 20% have had both doses.

Pneumonia isn’t contagious, and flu is apparently must les virulent than these new strains of covid.
It’s not really a lockdown now anyway. This government has 5hit all down the back of it by using their limp wristed approach to a people who have been weened on such an ideology of small state mentality where everyone should assume complete freedom of choice.
They sponked pretty much all the money they designated for the covid campaign pretty early and have been much slower on the uptake of financing properly a lockdown since.
They reached a period by last autumn where they had done their borrowed finance on it and planted in the minds of people like that ghastly woman on whatever radio programme that got banned off YouTube (hardly brewer is that her name?) who proceeded to scoff at any future requirement for lockdown, only for deaths to come back with a vengeance (like was warned) and the hospitals go into emergence mode.

Hartley brewer

And the police were left stranded without proper direction and made to look stupid while people did everything they could to test the system when the army should have been out pistol whipping the stupid.

How effective are these Lockdowns we have a famous 100 year old man Lockdown has failed to protect ?

If he has CO VID who or what was the source

Yes. If it saves one 100-year-old in hospital with pneumonia from testing positive for Covid, then it's worth having the Army on the streets pistol-whipping people.

If you're such a fan of life under Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, then sod off there.

If he has caught what chance have the rest of the Elderly got of not catching it , Not much imvho .

Not only how has TOM caught how are the rest of these Elderly and vulnerable catching it ?

If they were Isolated and protected properly they should not be catching anything IMVHO .

This government has managed to find a way of creating the worst of both worlds.
They have hamstrung the GDP for at least 3 years, reduced the economy by 25%, the unemployment won’t truly be known for years as zombie companies were financed to keep people employed....all while having one of the worst fatality rates in Europe, far in excess of the 20k they hung their hat on.
The managed to spend all that money by autumn last year for the grand total of hardly anything, as the death rates shot up like it had only just started.

The 100 year old hasn’t been shielded he was on tv last month.

And this insinuation of my apparent desire to live under socialism is rather rich....what is the NHS? The very thing the false fronted politicians claim to be the jewel in our society that need sponsoring by 100 year olds and is on its knees from the pressure.

Feb 2, 2021 -- 9:39AM, casemoney wrote:

How effective are these Lockdowns we have a famous 100 year old man Lockdown has failed to protect ? If he has CO VID who or what was the source

Lockdowns only work when a whole host of additional measures are in place to quickly highlight cases when you open things up again - something we've not had to date (open border/no testing on arrival/only testing people with symptoms when we know they have been in contact with people who have tested positive, even though we know more people with it remain asymptomatic than those who develop symptoms).  It has been a **** show, there's no disputing that.

Did you see at the weekend that Perth imposed a 7 day lockdown after ONE person tested positive in the community there.  Compare and contrast!  Similar, look at the way South Korea has been treating international arrivals.  If you are going to lockdown, at least do it right.

Abolish the NHS. That way we wouldn't have to keep protecting the bloody thing.

You go canvass America and see what they make of such a notion.
They’d laugh in your face the most of em.

Listening to Julia Hartley Brewer now,absolute star as are most of Talk Radio,only started listening a while back but what a find,biggest bonus is being able to bin the BBC who wheel out doom monger after doom monger,although unfortunately nothing much is going to change until people say enough is enough and that's not happening anytime soon.

You’ll also find that all the profitable parts of the NHS has already been siphoned off to the private sector....leaving only the stuff they don’t want or can profit from to be state run.

Can’t

She still scoffing at the necessity of the tier system as nobody is dying like she did a few months back?
If the tier system worked....why straight into another lockdown?
It’s because the tier system didn’t work.

Anyway, is she still banned from YouTube?

Sounds like he's not shielding so he has as much chance as anyone else of catching the virus?  Silly thread imo.

Flights full going to Caribbean, Dubai and skiing holiday resorts each day.

Plenty of other occurances each day which we can all see and read about, of covid rules being broken.

Rich and powerful continue to do as they wish.

The rest of us sit and suffer

Flights full going to Caribbean, Dubai and skiing holiday resorts each day.

Plenty of other occurances each day which we can all see and read about, of covid rules being broken.

Rich and powerful continue to do as they wish.

The rest of us sit and suffer  ---  Not sure what else anyone expected. If you had the money you would get your family on holiday as well. Why should their families suffer any more than they need to. As long as they don't break the law I see no problem. I do on the other hand think Tom having his family at his bedside is a bit unfair. We wouldn't be able to visit our mothers/fathers in those circumstances in an NHS hospital.

He probably caught COVID from one of his carers. He didn’t get his jab because firstly he was in Barbados when the vaccination programme started. He then came down with pneumonia - whether that is linked to being run down after his Barbados trip is anyone’s guess - and was deemed not well enough to receive his COVID jab.

He’s made of strong stuff and hopefully he’ll pull through.

What causes some distaste is the way his family have sought to monetise his fund raising endeavours. The first class flights for Tom and his family were provided by BA. The Barbados tourist board provided the accommodation. It might not have been much of a holiday for Captain Tom because he was wheeled out for a number of meet & greets and photo ops. The family meanwhile stayed on the beach or by the pool.

Captain Tom’s family are with him in hospital. I didn’t think that was allowed.

One rule for Captain Tom and another rule for everyone else?

Fingers crossed he’ll pull through and his family will think twice before wheeling him out to face the cameras every other day.

What is -Plain smiley - about ...

"Poor old Tom on his last legs by the look of things"
-----------------

You are a twisted cynical Leftie Covid Denier - leif.

You need to get your eyes tested Onlooker.

That's one of dem deadpan faced emojis, not a happy one ya dopey canute lol

Ps: Not a covid denier as i've neve denied its existence, just questioned the fearmongering and devastation to both the economy and the affect lockdown upon lockdown is having on people's well-being.

Won't be having any vaccine but then again I wouldn't have one against anything especially for a coronavirus of which there are thousands that mutate to evolve and could well render vaccines next to useless.

Build up your immune system and avoid Greggs and Dominos

3,400 care home deaths week ending jan 22, 38% increase on previous week and 8 weeks after 1st doeses of vacc were given

Would they get spikes like that in a normal january 1tp?

You also a) don't have much immunity straight after having the first jab (I know a paramedic who caught it after having her first jab), b) still don't have full immunity after having the second and c) don't tend to die from COVID straight away.  Given how few have had two doses, you can't really read anything meaningful into those numbers regarding the vaccine, if that's what you are trying to do.

2 to 3 weeks still means some have had 5 weeks of so called imunity

18.5 days is the mean time it takes for someone to die from COVID.  Given how few people were being vaccinated at the start, I say again, you cannot read anything meaningful into the numbers regarding the vaccine, if that's what you're trying to do.  Particularly so given that the timeframe you are quoting is when transmissions were peaking.

suspect some people that believe they are safe having been vaccinated are in for a shock

Nature preys on the weakest. Get slimming folks.

Hero or not how are his family allowed to visit him in hospital !

My mother in law died from/with it just before Xmas seven days after being diagnosed . The whole family were told they were allowed to visit but couldn’t guarantee they wouldn’t catch it. No one went.

My mates mum was vaccinated about 20 days ago, she caught it a week or so later. 80 y/o, bad dementia and in a care home. As of last night she was doing very well. Is that luck or because she’s been vaccinated?

he's gone
RIP

The Covid vaccines suffer from the same problem the flu vaccines do - lymphocyte (white-blood cell counts) plummet during the first week after receiving the jab, then rise substantially. (White blood cells are the immune cells which fight viruses). This is from Nature - the world's premier science journal - discussing white blood cell (lymphocyte) counts after administration of mRNA vaccines (like the Pfizer one):

Of those with laboratory changes, the largest changes were decreases in the lymphocyte count after the first dose in 8.3% (1 out of 12), 45.5% (5 out of 11) and 50.0% (6 out of 12) of participants who received 10 μg, 30 μg and 100 μg BNT162b1, respectively. One participant each in the 10-μg (8.3% (1 out of 12)) and 30-μg (9.1% (1 out of 11)) groups and 4 participants in the 100-μg group (33.3% (4 out of 12)) had grade 3 decreases in the lymphocyte count. These decreases in lymphocyte count after the first dose were transient and returned to normal 6–8 days after vaccination.


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2639-4

As I said, the same thing (lymphocytopaenia) occurs after flu vaccines:

T lymphocytopenia was universal, profound (65% drop; P less than 0.001), and long-lived (greater than nine days). B lymphocytopenia was observed in 18 individuals, was moderate (39% drop]; P less than 0.001), and short-lived (less than three days).


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7217721/

Now, I'm no doctor, although I spent years translating this stuff back in the 80s. But that suggests to me that if you have contracted a viral infection just prior to receiving the jab, or during the first few days, you'll be in trouble, because your immune system is substantially weakened. The reward is that you're much better protected against the virus in question after a week. But be very careful in the week prior to and after the jab.

As always, I'm happy to be corrected.

RIP Captain Tom.

Read in one of the newspapers, online ...

"Captain Tom tested NEGATIVE for Covid, on his return from Barbados"

That Test could be  from the day after, or a few days after ... He could, of course, theoretically have caught it the day before his return -

But, if that report is correct - Then it all points to him having contracted Covid SINCE his return  (or, on the off chance of on the Plane even) - which begs my original Thread TITLE question ...


How the hell has Captain Tom caught COVID ?

Also worth pointing out that Pneumonia vaccs are free on the NHS and encouraged for over 65s , yes they only protect against bacterial Pneumonia , but 25,000 a year die from Pneumonia . More to the point if (as appears likely for him ) you are infected then you cant have a Covid jab (as Screaming says ).

Captain Sir Tom Moore's ashes have been buried alongside his parents and grandparents in his family grave in Yorkshire.

As Sir Tom requested, his headstone bears the words "I told you I was old"

Love that, as obviously a nod to the great Spike Milligan with his inscription

" I told you I was unwell"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-57725373

Elderly should have been shielding.

Just goes to show you are never to old to die a Hero.