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stewarty b
20 Oct 20 17:50
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Date Joined: 02 Aug 02
| Topic/replies: 25,457 | Blogger: stewarty b's blog
Anybody remember the French horse Hector Protector? I had 250 on it at 10s to win the Epson Derby ante post in 1991. I can't remember exactly but it beat Generous either 11L or 13L in France beforehand albeit a different distance. Generous slaughtered it in the Derby ridden by A.Munro. (should have been T.Quinn imo). Anyways sometimes the form doesn't go according to plan.
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Report geoff m October 20, 2020 4:55 PM BST
Was he a Niarchos hoss Stewarty. From memory dont think he was a 12f hoss far better @ shorter.
Report GEORGE.B October 20, 2020 4:55 PM BST
is the answer the Arc?
Report GEORGE.B October 20, 2020 4:57 PM BST
no, hang on, that was Helissio
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 4:59 PM BST
Was he a Niarchos hoss Stewarty.



I don't know geoff but I'm fairly sure Freddy Head was on board.



GEORGE..no.
Report penzance October 20, 2020 4:59 PM BST
Prix Morny 2yr olds.6F.
Report geoff m October 20, 2020 5:00 PM BST
Just checked . Hector beat Generous over 6F in the Prix Morny. Hector returned to a mile and won Gp1 Jacques Le Marois on his next outing after the Derby
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 5:01 PM BST
Thanks penzance but still a helluva distance to get beat unless someone can correct me?
Report penzance October 20, 2020 5:02 PM BST
Suave Dancer won the 991 Arc.
Report giggitygiggity October 20, 2020 5:14 PM BST
Hector protector was the champion french 2yo after winning all of his 6 races. Only ever ran beyond a mile once when running in the derby. Faced the derby winner over 6f as a 2yo so I think he was entitled to win..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqiXeHKTwQA
Report TheAnorak October 20, 2020 5:55 PM BST
From Timeform - "a soundly beaten tenth of twelve behind Hector Protector after reportedly becoming upset in his stable near the sales pavilion on the night before the race"

They also report that two weeks earlier, when beaten at Goodwood 'Generous got himself in a stew during the preliminaries".
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 5:58 PM BST
Thanks for the last two posts. My pal who had more knowledge about the game than me said it was a very poor Derby.
Report penzance October 20, 2020 6:08 PM BST
Generous ended up with a Timeform Rating
of 138/39.Had an Eclipse winner and St Leger
winner well behind,Enviroment Friend and Toulon.
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 6:12 PM BST
penzance, just to give me some perspective on that rating what was Slip Anchor's Timeform rating?
Report penzance October 20, 2020 6:15 PM BST
135 might be 136,not too sure.
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 6:15 PM BST
* I backed the beast at 14s ante post and listened to the commentary offshore. It was mars bars and cans of coke all round that night.
Report penzance October 20, 2020 6:18 PM BST
1985, he had that won a long way out.
Report TheAnorak October 20, 2020 6:19 PM BST
Slip Anchor in Racehorses of 1985 is rated 136.

It may not have been a great Derby that Generous won, but you couldn't say that about the Irish Derby and the King George. Four Group 1 wins isn't a bad career total.
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 6:19 PM BST
No problem penzance and not wanting to bother you but I can't get the info. Since 1970, (Nijinksy) do you have any idea what the highest rated Timeform horse has been? Derby winner that is.
Report penzance October 20, 2020 6:22 PM BST
Generous/Referance point both rated high 130's
(38/39).Could be those.
Report penzance October 20, 2020 6:25 PM BST
Shergar got a TFR of 140,how could I forget
him.!
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 6:27 PM BST
That does surprise me penzance. Generous better than Nijinksy seems a tad too generous imo. (pardon the pun)
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 6:30 PM BST
That sounds better penzance. I only wish it had run as a 4yo. When Piggott won on him in the Irish Derby he said after the race he could have doubled the winning distance had he let out the choke.
Report penzance October 20, 2020 6:35 PM BST
Generous did beat the eventual Arc winner Suave Dancer
easily and he also routed that years King George field.
Probably had had enough come Arc day when beaten.
Report glentoby October 20, 2020 6:36 PM BST
Are you guys seriously taking Timeform to rate these horses? Their ratings have had more ridicule than most of our threads or posts get on here, e.g Frankel 147 versus Sea The Stars at 140 the same as Shergar who most would rate at least 7lb behind STS,the best seen in any decade?

Was Rainbow Quest better than Sagace and was Generous lesser than Hector over the Derby course and distance or vice vera?

Only asking rather than quoting figures as too many rely on others opinions from decades ago? IMVHO
Report Andrew.in.Sweden October 20, 2020 6:40 PM BST
When Piggott won on him in the Irish Derby he said after the race he could have doubled the winning distance had he let out the choke.

Stewart, Lester didn't ride Nijinsky in the Irish Derby, it was Liam Ward. Wink
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 6:42 PM BST
Andrew, don't know how you picked me up wrong but I was talking about Shergar.
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 6:44 PM BST
*I was replying to penzance's 18:25 post.
Report Andrew.in.Sweden October 20, 2020 6:49 PM BST
Apologies Stewart, i thought you were referring to Nijinsky
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 7:00 PM BST
No problem Andrew I can see the reason for the mix up. I was alive when Nijinksy won the Derby but to be honest I never knew it won the Irish Derby.


On top of that the triple crown. Some beast.

As for Piggott my favourite story about him was when Secreto won the 84 Derby narrowly beating El Gran Senor. Piggott finished down the field but still had time to go up to Vincent O'Brien and (apparently) whispered to him.... 'Miss me?' Grin I genuinely read that story in the Daily Express.
Report mrcombustible October 20, 2020 7:18 PM BST
I was at Epsom when Generous won the Derby. It was a Wednesday back then. Returned to London on a Tattenham Corner commuter train without loos. There were pissed up guys pissing in the carriages.
Report Saritamer October 20, 2020 7:55 PM BST
Another bit of trivia on the same theme, what was particularly unusual about Generous's profile? and certainly no Derby winner has done it since
Report lead on October 20, 2020 7:57 PM BST
Won the Coventry?
Report TheAnorak October 20, 2020 8:00 PM BST
The fact that he won over 5F as a 2-y-old and you'd probably have to go back to Mill Reef to find the previous example of that.
Report Saritamer October 20, 2020 8:03 PM BST
well done Anorak, not sure any has even run over the trip since
Report glentoby October 20, 2020 8:13 PM BST
Are you going to continue to live up to your name Anorak?  In case anyone fails to notice this is 2020,not 1956,anyone can Google anything so RED RUM won and dead heated a sprint at Liverpool,Lester Pig and PC involved,no google just knowledge!!?
Report TheAnorak October 20, 2020 8:21 PM BST
No idea what you're on about, what has Red Rum got to do with the Derby.
Report glentoby October 20, 2020 8:24 PM BST
Absolutely nothing,simply credibility e.g the difference between actual knowledge and access to information used to project knowledge?
Report blackbarn October 20, 2020 8:35 PM BST
Glentoby - Red Rum was ridden by Paul Cook when he dead heated. That's knowledge.
Report glentoby October 20, 2020 8:49 PM BST
What did you think PC meant BB,political correctness?
Report glentoby October 20, 2020 8:51 PM BST
Only joking btw,since my mini stroke it is just a challenge on short and long term memory,no offence meant to anyone.You all help in your own way and it is very much appreciated.
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 10:36 PM BST
Not associated with the Derby but did Brigadier Gerard win over six furlongs?
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 10:43 PM BST
Actually, I just googled and it won a five furlong race. Unbelievably it's total career winnings were only £253,024.70. Yes, a good while back and it's hard to make comparison's from different era's but I believe that had it raced in the same era as Frankel it would have beaten it, especially over 10 furlongs.
Report brians October 20, 2020 11:29 PM BST
Just looked at currency updates . £250,000 in 1972 would be worth 3 and a bit million today.
Frankel had career earnings of just less than three million. Interesting, and surprising.
Report stewarty b October 20, 2020 11:37 PM BST
Thanks for that info brians.
Report Lance in France October 21, 2020 10:44 AM BST
Well my useless bit of trivia is that sometime after Hector Protector was conceived, his mum and dad got back together again and produced Bosra Sham. Not a bad repeat breeding
Report jackdaw October 21, 2020 11:14 AM BST
UK prize money has fallen a long way behind inflation since 1972 so I'm not sure the comparison is valid.
Report stewarty b October 21, 2020 11:46 AM BST
That's actually interesting LiF.
Report brigust1 October 21, 2020 12:04 PM BST
Mill Reef also won the Coventry, by 8 lengths, and won the Gimcrack by 10 lengths, the Dewhurst, the Derby, Eclipse, King George and Arc. Then the Ganay and the Coronation Cup. Gutted he never turned up for the '72 Eclipse or King George.
Report Lance in France October 21, 2020 12:45 PM BST
I always refer to them as the best brother and sister double act ever Stewart
Report blackbarn October 21, 2020 4:22 PM BST
Lance - great bit of trivia.  Is there a better brother and sister???
Report blackbarn October 21, 2020 4:34 PM BST
Battaash and AltaayshahWink
Report cacique October 21, 2020 7:08 PM BST
cacique and his brothers and sisters weren't too bad
Report Andrew.in.Sweden October 22, 2020 4:40 PM BST
Ruby and Kate Walsh Wink
Report brigust1 October 22, 2020 6:18 PM BST
Hi Andrew. How are things? I am in quarantine now for another week. Made it back for Champions Day. Wish I hadn't now.
Report Andrew.in.Sweden October 22, 2020 6:41 PM BST
Hi Laurie

Doing good thanks, Covid free so far (thankfully) but 2 guys in the DLR (German Aerospace centre) here have had it (both recovered).

Still in 'Das Faderland' no thanks to KLM. I had a flight booked to go to Linköping on November 14th for 4 days, my first trip home since March but i received an email this morning informing me the flight is now cancelled (it's actually still showing on their web-site). I guess this is due to the ramp up in European cases.

Any chance of me coming over to watch the Tingle Creek disappeared long ago, but i do have a cash bet from a Korals shop on the US election, so if that goes my way, i wouldn't mind a few days off in London.

Champions day is not what it should be, wrong time of the year to start with and often with heavy ground.

Good luck.
Report brigust1 October 22, 2020 10:24 PM BST
We had a return flight booked for the 4th Nov but that was cancelled a couple of days ago. Not good times at the moment any decision making is out of the question. There still seems to be a hell of a lot of this virus still about and doesn't look like going anywhere anytime soon.
You may be right about Champions Day but I still remember being soaked to the skin in 1971. It was like a bog. I came down from the stands thinking we were beaten but I met the travelling head lad at the bottom of the stairs and he said we had won, no problem. He was right.
Report Movewiththetimes October 22, 2020 11:18 PM BST
My bit of trivia GrinGrin In 1944 Dante won the Coventry Stakes by four lengths. The race was run at Newmarket Racecourse instead of its customary venue of Royal Ascot because of wartime restrictions.
Report Movewiththetimes October 22, 2020 11:19 PM BST
And first Northern horse to win the Derby since 1869 Grin
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