What can we learn from pro backers ?

Sorry if not
t is easy to lump punters together as a single group, but if you are friends with more than a handful of fellow travellers you will know that is too simplistic.

Recreational betting is about two main factors and its participants often thrive on one over the other. It boils down to whether you prefer the hard study or the winning rush, the hunt or the quarry.

You might think it is desirable to err towards the former and most of the time that is surely so. It does have its downsides, though. You find you try to figure everything out. Bet on two flies up a wall? How could I not, if you give me 5-6 the pair! That one on the right is carrying much more condition.

Have you ever priced up something at work in your head? I must admit I do it regularly, and not just with races. What chance this meeting overruns? Who will reply-all to this company-wide email? What will Paul Kealy put up in the big Saturday handicap? All of these and more are offered to the highly exclusive customer base at MelroseBet.

How certain articles will perform in terms of page views is an old favourite, and if you should ever find yourself pricing up those here is a form tip. There are two betting-related topics that prove unerringly popular with readers. Quotes from connections is one, the other is when professional punters are quoted, as in the Secrets Of Racing piece on Tuesday with Mark Holder and Neil Channing.

The popularity of the two genres gets to the heart of a couple of things that all experienced bettors seem to understand naturally. Trainer quotes are covered by the desire to have information that others might not, pro bettors by a desire to learn from the best.

Holder himself made a point about soft inside information that struck a chord. He said: "While most trainers know about their own horse, a punter is dealing with an equation that has ten, 12, 14 runners."

Arsene Wenger, was on to it, too. "Everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home," he said in a bygone age (2002) by way of retort to one of Sir Alex Ferguson's jibes.

The point is, what we hear from connections is subject to no small number of biases. That is hardly a novel observation. But it is also the case that what regular bettors pick up from professionals is not always the equivalent of a masterclass.

Being a professional punter is not just about being a great judge, any more than being a professional footballer is solely about skill on the ball. If someone from your bit of the country went on to play in the Premier League, it is probably odds on that there are local tales of a brother, or a youth teammate, who was a much better player 'but he just didn't make it.'

The reasons are much the same when it comes to being a sports bettor. Having been fortunate enough to know and learn from both a smattering of pros and other excellent judges, I can tell you the difference is not merely in whose natural ability is greater.

As Holder and Channing both amply demonstrated in Tuesday's piece, so much of their success is down to dedication, and not just to the form book. Discipline, coolness, a feel for staking and even the tolerance of admin are all major parts of what separates a good punter from those who have what it takes to be professional.

It also needs to be remembered that the desire to have knowledge not in the public domain exists for good reason. It is undoubtedly valuable. Holder gives trainer quotes short shrift, but happily revealed that he keeps private sectional times. That is not a repudiation of chasing down knowledge others do not have, but rather making a choice about which information is important to you.

It is this that strikes at the reason why readers should be looking a little deeper when professional gamblers are quoted. Had Peter Thomas asked for Holder's spreadsheets for the last year, he would have been told where to go. That crosses the line of what explicit information people are generally willing to give away.

Similarly, if you ever find yourself in the company of a top judge, whether that is a pro punter or just one you respect, do not ask them simply what will win the feature. Ask a more open question: what do they think of the race?

Finding out what is important to those with a gift for getting to the nub of a horse is the best lesson a form student can learn. The best punters I have known taught me precious little about staking, we operated in different worlds as far as that was concerned, while their outright tips have been subject to the same vagaries as those of any other tipster.

What I did pick up were various tools of the trade, many of which take a strong hand in my own punting to this day. Trainer rankings, course topography and, yes, even the utility of time analysis are mainstays of my approach now and all were picked up from these role models.

Perhaps the strongest lesson of all has been that there is no silver bullet. The best punters paint with a palette, not in monochrome. Even among the elite there are differing approaches, as we saw on Tuesday. Holder's monastic dedication and barely concealed addiction to being proved right struck a different note from Channing's intuitive and surprisingly collaborative approach.

Their popularity and insight means the Racing Post will keep offering a peek into the lives and methods of those who make their living trading on horses. Readers are right to flock to these pieces. The only advice offered is that we should be looking for the rod, rather than the fish.

I need convincing that any tipster can make a living from punting.
Name one bookmaker who will allow a punter win regularly.
Most shops monitor anyone who places even one £100 bet.
The traders monitor any savvy betting patterns on-line and soon act.
The exchanges only have liquidity minutes before the off. 
Please tell me how they make circa £35k tax free a year which would be an average income for a typical household without the flash cars etc

Most important lesson, I'd guess, is patience.

the article mentions a pair of bettors working togethor - that's probably the ideal solution. Could be two mates, one that does all the form study and the other with the 'bettors flair' but not much study. Combining the two effectively would be the way ahead.

Who wrote that piece?

What a load of vacuous waffle.

Find a method that works, and have the patience to only back those that fit the method.

The problem is finding a method that works... .

The child is grown,
The dream is gone.

Charity shops springing up in some towns in UK I hear,mostly in closed down betting shops? Maybe just a rumour but I doubt any bookie will ever become a charity impossible?

Btw name one single full time pro punter and I will show my bare arse in a supermarkets main window near you,it is all bull to keep you reading carp,as for 35k a year mentioned,only lunatics would get out of bed for that!!!

HTH and if in doubt ask my old mate Nevo or David as I always call him?

If £35k is the limit, you'd be hard pressed to find a professional bus driver.

Goodness.

That seems rather nasty.

Ramruma 28 Aug 20 20:06 
If £35k is the limit, you'd be hard pressed to find a professional bus driver.






Said the man on the Clapham Omnibus

Nevo was jealous of Pottsy imo

Now you tell him

nevo i mean, posts as kemo

FFS sparrow,I am ill not fukcing stupid you moron!! HTH

Just ordered an ANORAK to be sent to any homeless ex pro in UK in case the temperature drops suddenly!!!

play nice glen, anoraks a decent bloke, well liked on here and his opinion is respected

Regarding Elise’s post, most people think the exact opposite of you, Glen!

Agreed Kenbo,among the flotsam and jetsam that do not engage in anything other than vitriol?

Incapable of engaging in serious or important matters and individually unable to tell a truth. VWD for the heads up.