Bet Help Please

£5 total stake =£46.10
£10 total stake =£92.20

I had £5 reverse f/c ...so total stake stake £10. I believe it should have returned £92.20 but they have returned £46.10 saying that because of the dead heat I get half my stake.

So do toy believe them to be wrong penzance?

Thanks for your help.

Can anyone please confirm?

looks to me that the dh is already in the calculation, so you should get 92.20

Correct mate should be £92.20

What's confused them is they've forgotten the f/c dividend has already factored in the dead heat by issuing two dividends so in effect they've penalised you twice.

They should know just roughly multiplying the prices then halving it would return just under £100 but they haven't thought it through.


Good luck

looks to me like those return divs
have already been halved,looking at he
SPs.Not100% sure but thunk you should
get the new divs to your stake.
   GL

i just worked out the csf using https://www.flatstats.co.uk/betting/csf-formula

and it is 36.88 so half that is exactly 18.44

If this is online you should make an official complaint to a manager and ask it is possible such a blunder was made.

*how it is possible

Having had a chat online with a very helpful member of staff, I'm afraid that they are insisting that the return is £46.10, half my winning stake because of betfair's dead heat rules.

I'm certain that this is incorrect but what can i do?

I have asked them to review it, which they said they will. They said that they will email me in due course.

Thank you so much for your replies. It gave me the confidence to go back and query it again.

I will post what they say when I get the email.

Surely there should be 2 separate dividends here?

Dead Heats - If two or more runners dead-heat for first or second place in a forecast, or including third place in a tricast, then separate dividends will be paid out.  If you took a fixed price you will be paid at full odds but your stake will be divided between the number of selections in the dead heat.

This taken from online betting.org.uk

there is £18.44 & £42.26

As an ex settler and manager of an on line operation your payout should be 5 x 18.44 no argument

Then as Baz says undoubtedly £92-20 is the correct return.

prophet - insist that they forward your complaint to a manager.  Say that this mistake is such a gross error in bet settling it casts doubt on their fitness to hold a ukgc licence.

bizarre error

What is the firm btw?

It's with Betfair dave.

The  CSF divided declared is £18-44 so the returns should be £92-20 , But why are Betfair paying a CSF  return when they don't take the bet ?

betfair? - that is utterly shocking.  The largest online betting company, flutter group, doesn't have competent bet settlers.

Betfair don't have settlers anymore it's all done automatically by computer , and they don't take CSF bets in the first place

well if their settling system is coded incorrectly that means they have been ripping off people for years.

That is shocking considering they were given the chance to look at the bet again and still don't understand how to settle the bet properly.

Correction Carrot they do, I didn't realise they do but if you are in Sportsbook, horseracing, and click on a price.....then in "betslip" there is a forecast & tricast tab and below says "2nd required"(is that a new feature?). It doesn't then say potential returns when a stake is added, so assume they use the CSF dividend and not their own dividend. What an absolute joke that even when challenged they don't accept that they have settled the bet wrongly.....makes you wonder how many others have been underpaid when there has been a dead heat for 1st or 2nd place for these type of bets?!

What a plonker carrot1960. Displaying all that is wrong with certain humans, convinced they are correct even when wrong. Read the T/C, before arrogantly posting please.

layemall, it is quite a complex calc and based on the starting prices of all the horses in the race, so they can't display the "potential" returns.

Hi Dave....yes, a rough guideline is the price of the winner multiplied by the basic factor of the 2nd(add 1 to the 2nd's price)...i.e a 3/1 beats a 5/2 shot, then the CSF pays roughly 3 X 3.5 = £10.50. I added that bit in my previous post as wasn't sure whether Carrot was correct on a technicality. i.e Betfair calculate/give their own dividends for forecasts and therefore don't do/offer the official CSF.

betfred settlers not knowing their own rule 4 rules
paddy power  not knowing their own rules regarding late horse withdrawn  rules (on here few weeks back)
betfair not knowing c/f rules
bookmakers in general not knowing ante post rules

The Racing Post and Attheraces results sites show separate dividends for each placed horse , so the dh has been taken into account in the published £18.44 they both quote. Therefore you should have  5 times that . Your other £5 is lost because the straight forecast no. 5 to beat the winner is lost.
Returns £92.20.

^^^ yes layemall, the rough calc of 1st sp times sp of second plus one (8x5), should have made it obvious to any of betfair's staff involved in this debacle that they were wrong.

Surely should be 5 x 18.44 for Sweet Reward/ Elegant love
plus 5x 18.44 for Elegant Love/Sweet Reward.      £184.40 would be about right for those prices.

Another problem is that you're not talking to the person who settled the bet on their chat service but simply someone who passes and receives messages.

OOps misread that as 1st and 2cd dheat,£92.20  is the return.

OOps misread that as 1st and 2cd dheat,£92.20  is the return.

mmmalushka - the dh was second not first

just in time

San Quenton there in no straight CSF on here  betfair offer there own fixed price  F/C or they offer a  tote  exacta

22.16Forecast Betting
A "straight forecast" is a bet where you name two selections to come 1st and 2nd in the correct order for a specified event.
A "reversed forecast" is when you name two selections to finish 1st and 2nd in any order for a specific event.
A "combination forecast" is when you choose three or more selections in an event, with any of these to finish 1st and 2nd in the race.
Straight, reversed and combination forecasts are available on horse races provided 3 or more entries run in any one race.
Forecast bets are settled in accordance with the industry Forecast Dividend, except where stated below:
If a Straight Forecast is accepted for a race where no dividend declared, the bet will be settled as a win single on the first selection stated.
If you select a Non-Runner in a Forecast bet, the bet will be void. If you select a Non-Runner in a Combination Forecast, all bets featuring the non-runner will be void.
Customers are not allowed to include 'unnamed favourite' in forecast bets.

" San Quentin" if you can see any reference to a CSF bet anywhere  in betfairs terms your welcome to point it out

22.16Forecast Betting
A "straight forecast" is a bet where you name two selections to come 1st and 2nd in the correct order for a specified event.
A "reversed forecast" is when you name two selections to finish 1st and 2nd in any order for a specific event.
A "combination forecast" is when you choose three or more selections in an event, with any of these to finish 1st and 2nd in the race.
Straight, reversed and combination forecasts are available on horse races provided 3 or more entries run in any one race.
Forecast bets are settled in accordance with the industry Forecast Dividend, except where stated below:
If a Straight Forecast is accepted for a race where no dividend declared, the bet will be settled as a win single on the first selection stated.
If you select a Non-Runner in a Forecast bet, the bet will be void. If you select a Non-Runner in a Combination Forecast, all bets featuring the non-runner will be void.
Customers are not allowed to include 'unnamed favourite' in forecast bets.

Paragraph 5
Forecast bets are settled in accordance with the industry Forecast Dividend, except where stated below:

Paragraph 5
Forecast bets are settled in accordance with the industry Forecast Dividend, except where stated below:

I've always been paid out as per the CSF ( Industry Straight Forecast ) on Sportsbook...

Just to let you guys know that they have voided the last return of £46.60 and have now paid out the full £92.20.

I'm really not sure what you're are talking about carrot as I have been doing forecasts for years on betfair, and they always pay out using the CSF....just like this bet.

It's amazing that, even when you know you're right...when they tell you you are wrong...it starts to make you doubt yourself.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. As I said earlier, it gave me the confidence to go back again and not just accept it.

Common sense has at last prevailed prophet and well done but you can't help thinking how many other people have been underpaid on this and other similar bets.

tnks for the update

Pleased you got there in the end The Prophet!

But shame on the bf moderators for deleting carrots “humble apology for adding to the confusion” post.

Why would i be apologizing , there is nothing in the terms that cover's a CSF  bet  , neither  is there or have i ever seen an option on sportsbook to place a CSF  bet

Come on Saxon how about a screenshot of the CSF  option on here

what are you waffling about.  The bet slip says straight forecast/reversed forecast.  The bet made by OP returned exactly the CSF.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0CPkf8ESQWPO1NpMz7k0lZRxw

carrot please leave the building you are making a complete fool of yourself or are you just plain stupid. How people like you sleep at night I really do not know. Please apologise to all saxon in the main and hang your head in shame.

San Quentin, he seems to have scuttled off

As Del Boy might have called him “a 42 carrot plonker”.

Come on carrot1960, any thoughts?

carrot, I have blundered on these pages before. I have had egg on my face and eaten humble pie.
BUT I NEVER LIVED ON DENIAL.
I wish you well carrot1960.