Well I respect him far more as a good punter than inventing just another tipping firm.

Well I'm pleased all their customers are satisfied with profiting from their investment.

My old man told me he used to use H. J. Masons time test in the 1940s  he told me it was very good and profitable.

Legend

I used to get the Annual ,and was on Golden Fleese at 33/1 but he wasn’t but was with him on Touching Wood winning the Ledger,liked his stories about his old man.

The notion that Bull was faking results to attract clients does not hold water because the figures in the book were from Bull's private papers and were not publicised at the time. I'd imagine Bull kept records partly because everyone should, partly because he was an actual maths geek, but mainly that in the days of betting on credit, it was inevitable.

Timeform ratings and assessments are just opinions aren't they?
Official ratings are also opinions.
Paying for an opinion whether it be a rating or an outright tip is just the same in my view.

The first I heard of Bull was that he used to stand by the finishing line and bet on which horse had won.

Whether you call it tips or advice it was a great idea especially when the spectators were in greater number than today. I used to buy their little books and still have few of them today and they were great. I never followed the ratings but to precise their chances so that you could decide was, as I have said, a great idea.

There are a number of things I disagree with as far as Timeform is concerned but the organisation and presentation is very experienced and it definitely adds to the experience.

Sure you're not talking about Bird ? He was the big photo player.

Should have said Alex not Alec though.

Alex bird father was a bookie and used to stand on the doorstep praying for rain and with some of the latest results I can see why

Ramruma - to repeat Clayfield's question - when did official ratings start?. The Jockey Club took control of the handicapping system in the mid 1930's and reduced the large number of handicappers to just SEVEN shortly afterwards. I am not sure, but I doubt that Timeform were "decades ahead" of a centralised handicap. Geoffrey Freer would know.

@blackbarn -re centralised handicaps.

According to his obituary, David Swannell made the change but the Independent does not say when. It could have been any time between his appointment in 1953 and retirement in 1983.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-major-david-swannell-1536014.html

Timeform was founded in 1948.

courtesy of Thoroughbred Owner&Breeder

https://issuu.com/ownerbreeder/docs/ob_sept11

(see Page 48)

Daily Telegraph, Jan 13th, 1972:

"The Jockey Club announce that by 1973, all handicaps may be compiled centrally, rather than as at present by a single individual."

I think as far as punting is concerned handicapping is a failure and should be abolished. Believe me I have spent many many long hours studying handicaps but there are too many anomalies to succeed. They are great for bookmakers, many of whom used to sponsor the big handicaps such is the profit they can make from them. They may be a good spectacle and I always looked forward to the Lincoln, the Spring Double and Cambridgeshire and Cesarewitch. Spent long hours watching for horses being prepared for these big handicaps but I never made any money from them.
I have had some notable successes but they were few and far between. I went to Newbury to bank Strands of Gold in the Hennesy, I think I got 10s, I had the one bet then went home.
I backed Bindaree in the National and I had a big win of Highclere in the 1000 Guineas at 33s doubled with Red Rum at 10s in'74.

My biggest win on a handicap, however, was in World Cup year when I worked for a national company and they had a Grand National draw. I drew Anglo at the local depot and Anglo at the National Depot. Plus I had a couple of quid on it for luck. What a weekend that was.

I used to keep regular records and I soon realised where my money was going and my time. I never bet in handicaps now, and haven't for many years unless for fun. I want my bets to be on horses in races they want to win not to get their weight down for some race I have no idea about.

And isn't the idea of a handicap is that they all finish in line? If it is then that's a joke.

A number of years ago I wouldn't have agreed about your view on handicaps brigust but these pat few years my records are telling me a different story.  They are telling me I do far better on American racing which has hardly any handicaps.

Enjoyed that documentary. Only now seeing it for the first time.

I don't suppose anyone can point me in the direction of that famous 'Sportsnight' programme in the mid-70s all about John Banks?  Would love to see that again !

John Francome with hair like Sideshow Bob at the time Alun!
I have fond memories of Remainder Man hosing up in the Free Handicap, bet in to 7/2 from 13/2, then running very well in all the big races thereafter, at good prices.  Reg Hollinshead.  Trainer of jockeys and horses!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/racing/article-2320415/Reg-Hollinshead-dies-aged-89.html

Thanks here too.
I remember Jim ( If you go racing as often as I do you would know, and I go every day ) McGrath whineing with some resentment that he had worked for him at Timeform and been rebuked for putting in a comment about a horse - "Loves the soft"!  Bull apparently didn't like the phrase.  "They're animals, they don't love anything"!