Phil Bull documentary 1982

Thanks Andriy, thoroughly enjoyed that.

Best jockey ever 20:06 in.
If only he was riding now, if only.

An interesting trip down memory lane. Re a thread on here in the last week : it was interesting to see the size of the crowd at the St.Leger in the days when the silver ring was still operating and the funfair in action.

Really enjoyed that. Why does Hamdan always look miserable after Wassl bolting up.

Brilliant,recognised many faces but never expected to see my Mum walk past him near the rails at Newmarket!

Yes parents never went abroad but went racing for their holidays and were members at Newmarket.

Thought he would have piled on Golden Fleece after Sangster told him what they thought of the horse.

He was happy to back Wassl on Colonel Dick's recommendation though,remember Dick Warden well,he used to bet with Laddies and i was pals with the lads in the north and he was a fair lead,had his own horses with Peter Easterby,his colours are now the Habton farm colours.

Maybe he thought Sangster was only hyping Golden Fleece's stallion value, a suspicion that still hangs around Ballydoyle and Coolmore. As Bull said in the film, Golden Fleece was unbeaten but had beaten nothing.

In his pocket

Nothing to see here other than Ribero's mum. Great stuff, well spotted.

Other than that, man tells us he wins money backing horses, that's new. Man picks several in the same race sometimes he wins others not, that's new. Man tells us how much he won after the race, that is also new. Man backs a tip he has been give. Great! Man has no problem putting bets on, that's new. Man has gripes about the way racing is run and the results of stewards enquiries. Big surprise. He spent most of his time talking garbage.
Nothing I saw made me think he was shrewd or wise or I would want to be anything like him.

What I would have liked to see is him explaining how he set up Timeform. How he worked out the ratings and put the business together and built it up to what it was when he sold it and what gave him the money to bet. How one person can make so many mistakes but end up wealthy I suppose it could only happen in racing. He had an idea and ran with. Now that would be worth watching. Not, look at me I back winners, sometimes.

Tbf to Bull, it was a snapshot in time of an ageing gentleman, maybe under a bit of pressure to come up with bets for the camera, and not at all reflective of his 'golden' years.

If someone on here, for example, said he thought the 6 runner Jockey Club Cup was between the first 3 in the betting including the 5-4 fav, said he thought the Derby was between the first four in the betting and then proceeded to get it badly wrong financially as he effectively laid the fav who won comfortably, he'd be ridiculed, and that's before after-timing a £5K win.

As Brigust1 says, there would have been more interest in hearing about Timeform.

As well as time (or speed) figures, Bull also started the annuals with their assessments of horses and essays on the leading performers.

It was a good watch. Thanks for posting.

A slim John McCririck. Tommo asking Sangster stupid questions after Golden Fleece's win.  Spotted Gerry Gallagher (Vincent's travelling head lad) with Golden Fleece

That's him rubbished then, so who's next Alec Bird as another right mug?
And don't forget those idiots at Druids Lodge either.

Just an opinion of the documentary sparrow, but it's from a time long ago. A rich man with loads of contacts in stables living in a castle doesn't have much relevance to most keen horse race punters i wouldn't have thought. Incidentally 1982 was the only year i bought the Timeform Hurdlers and Chasers new, nearly 40 years ago, £82! Was interesting to read the essays on the top horses of the season but i can't say i found it much use in picking horses for the following season, £82 what would that equate to now about £500, no wonder he lived in a castle.

£82 in 1982 = £291 average inflation 3.5% per year.

I'm not convinced. Didn't see him doing any studying or checking the form just wandering around smoking cigars. He never made any attempt to impress everyone which was the reason for the film. Unless that was him trying to impress. I don't believe anyone who won that kind of money wouldn't be getting bets on that easily unless he had another source.
I had accounts closed with Ladbrokes and the Tote in the early 70's and I was only betting in 10s and 20s and the very occasional ton. I rang up Lads one Saturday evening to back Fort Marcy in the Washington International they halved the bet and told me no more.

As I said I would have been really interested in the machinations and setting up of Timeform The rest is just not interesting.

My bad memory Anorak was £42 for 82/83 season, sorry but still dear enough, would imagine half to a weeks pick up pay to most people at the time, so probably about £250 now i'd guess. Then the racecards, the black books, the phone services, didn't need to bet at all.