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Willie Shafter.
03 Jul 20 18:42
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Date Joined: 15 Jul 04
| Topic/replies: 38,852 | Blogger: Willie Shafter.'s blog
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Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 6:43 PM BST
ffs
Report Wesdag July 3, 2020 6:43 PM BST
ul there willie Plain
Report jamesdean July 3, 2020 6:43 PM BST
1.2 a willy wind up, 4's true
Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 6:44 PM BST
apart from that did you enjoy your afternoon?
Report Whistlejacket July 3, 2020 6:44 PM BST
a 3 day ban is an utter disgrace!!!!! (
given the same jockey failed to weighed in the other day)
there have a few too many incidents with weigh in properly of late
Report dustybin July 3, 2020 6:44 PM BST
Hand those gold medals back please WSSilly
Only kidding, sickner that one, nasty way to lose
Report dustybin July 3, 2020 6:45 PM BST
if you did lose
Report Wesdag July 3, 2020 6:46 PM BST
was it the 340 & 1000 button responsible?
Report Wesdag July 3, 2020 6:46 PM BST
*or
Report Willie Shafter. July 3, 2020 6:48 PM BST
Horse Racing: £919.16  Total P&L:  £919.16

Horse Racing    Showing 1 - 20 of 35 markets
Market    Start time    Settled date    Profit/loss (£)
Horse Racing / Wolv 3rd Jul : 6f Hcap    03-Jul-20 18:30    03-Jul-20 18:36    31.04
Horse Racing / Ham 3rd Jul : 1m5f Hcap    03-Jul-20 18:20    03-Jul-20 18:24    22.06
Horse Racing / Navan 3rd Jul : 1m2f Hcap    03-Jul-20 18:10    03-Jul-20 18:15    32.05
Horse Racing / Wolv 3rd Jul : 7f Hcap    03-Jul-20 18:00    03-Jul-20 18:04    14.84
Horse Racing / Ham 3rd Jul : 1m Hcap    03-Jul-20 17:50    03-Jul-20 17:54    8.64
Horse Racing / Navan 3rd Jul : 5f Hcap    03-Jul-20 17:40    03-Jul-20 17:43    7.84
Horse Racing / Wolv 3rd Jul : 7f Mdn Stks    03-Jul-20 17:30    03-Jul-20 17:36    201.91
Horse Racing / Ham 3rd Jul : 1m Hcap    03-Jul-20 17:20    03-Jul-20 17:23    19.44
Horse Racing / Wolv 3rd Jul : 1m Nov Stks    03-Jul-20 17:00    03-Jul-20 17:14    13.73
Horse Racing / Navan 3rd Jul : 6f Mdn    03-Jul-20 17:10    03-Jul-20 17:12    32.34
Horse Racing / Ham 3rd Jul : 1m Hcap    03-Jul-20 16:50    03-Jul-20 16:55    21.74
Horse Racing / Navan 3rd Jul : 6f Mdn    03-Jul-20 16:40    03-Jul-20 16:42    15.68
Horse Racing / Ham 3rd Jul : 6f Hcap    03-Jul-20 16:15    03-Jul-20 16:19    13.88
Horse Racing / Hayd 3rd Jul : 1m3f Hcap    03-Jul-20 16:00    03-Jul-20 16:05    2.35
Horse Racing / Chep 3rd Jul : 1m4f Hcap    03-Jul-20 15:50    03-Jul-20 15:53    8.23
Horse Racing / Ham 3rd Jul : 6f Nov Stks    03-Jul-20 15:40    03-Jul-20 15:43    37.05
Horse Racing / Hayd 3rd Jul : 7f Hcap    03-Jul-20 15:30    03-Jul-20 15:32    7.84
Horse Racing / Chep 3rd Jul : 2m Hcap    03-Jul-20 15:20    03-Jul-20 15:24    10.98
Horse Racing / Ham 3rd Jul : 6f Nov Stks    03-Jul-20 15:10    03-Jul-20 15:14    35.30
Horse Racing / Hayd 3rd Jul : 7f Nov Stks    03-Jul-20 15:00    03-Jul-20 15:04    21.02


Horse Racing > Ham 3rd Jul : 1m Hcap    Showing 1 - 2 of 2 Selections
Selection    Odds    Stake(£)    Bid type    Placed    Profit/loss(£)
Highest Mountain    *    303.29    14.93    Lay         14.93
Storm Ahead    321.08    4.91    Lay    03-Jul-20 17:23    4.91
*Average odds: On  Off    Back subtotal:    0.00
Lay subtotal:    19.84
Market subtotal:    19.84
Commission @ 2.02%:    0.40
Net Market Total:    19.44

no flies on jd..Cool
Report Willie Shafter. July 3, 2020 6:53 PM BST
we are waiting on rl now Scared
Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 6:55 PM BST

Jul 3, 2020 -- 7:42PM, Whistlejacket wrote:


Thanks Longbridge.  I am not fishing at all.  Considering the jockey has weighed out at a particular weight - hands the saddle over to the trainer, assistant trainer or trainer's representative, my question was pretty much in the vein that someone must have knowledge or be responsible for the sudden disappearance of said lead or weight-cloth? (assuming it hasn't fallen off during the race)


Exactly, the stewards said it didn't appear to fall off during the race, nolan had it when he weighed out, and it wasn't found on the way to the saddling boxes or in the saddling boxes.  Given that there aren't any spectators in the course, some licensed individual or their rep must have removed it.

Report longbridge July 3, 2020 6:58 PM BST
@whistlejacket

"my question was pretty much in the vein that someone must have knowledge or be responsible for the sudden disappearance of said lead or weight-cloth? "

Responsible but not necessarily deliberately culpable - there have been all kinds of things in the past - mixing up the weights for two runners from the same stable, leaving the weight-cloth behind in the rush to saddle - none of it should happen but I wouldn't assume conspiracy over ****-up when it does.
Report Whistlejacket July 3, 2020 7:03 PM BST
I rather feel inclined towards Dave1357's line of questioning. 
Anyhow, all history now, though perhaps not very amusing for those who had backed the horse or those who might have "layed" the promoted winner
Report Big Cat July 3, 2020 7:11 PM BST
Weighing in light lends itself to an avenue of corruption, for those inclined that way
Report Willie Shafter. July 3, 2020 7:14 PM BST
incredible how often its the winner.
Report Big Cat July 3, 2020 7:15 PM BST
I don't think it's acceptable to conclude that 'the cause of the weight loss could not be established' in the immediate aftermath of the race, without proper and full investigation
Report Wesdag July 3, 2020 7:20 PM BST
another way to get 1 beat
Report Big Cat July 3, 2020 7:22 PM BST
If the Stewards don't put the jockey and connections through some serious pain for this, others in the Industry will look on and see easy £££ signs
Report Whistlejacket July 3, 2020 7:26 PM BST
It is about time draconian fines in the £10k upwards bracket are dished out for occurrences like this, as they do in Asia or other jurisdictions.  The racecourse, on raceday, is a trainer's place of work (or their appointed representative) If a trainer (or representative) can be so negligent or carefree to let this happen - either by design or accident - then they should face a pretty severe fine.  Once, 2 or 3 of them have been hit with substantial fines, you will suddenly see it will most likely not happen again. 
Weights from a weight cloth don't just simply disappear and are nowhere to be found on a racecourse with vetted attendees.
Pity the poor owners (assuming they are seriously cheesed off) they have just been done out of over 6.5K on a horse that hasn't won any prize money since August 2019.
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 7:29 PM BST
Will be referred and unless the trainer or jockey can explain,BIG penalties will follow.As to the conspiracy of getting a horse kicked out...........grow up FFS,the most ludicrous conspiracy theory since Lee Harvey Oswald and the Friggin Big Indian?Wink
Report Big Cat July 3, 2020 7:35 PM BST
Can't make accusations WRT this incident, but your view of the world is naive Mr Toby
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 7:40 PM BST
Explain Big Cat.............I can cite past experience re-Greg Chung,Oscar et al.Tell me or us your conspiracy theory that includes the deviants escaping punishment and losing any ill gotten gains?
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 7:43 PM BST
In other words.......nobody will benefit so where is the sense of intentionally winning and ensuring being kicked out,other than illegal or Asian Markets.........worth the jockeys licence or trainers for a Lifetime ban if proven the case?
Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 7:47 PM BST
@glentoby if a regular IR player took £50k out of that market BF would be hard pressed to prove anything.
Report Big Cat July 3, 2020 8:01 PM BST
^^^ Exactly
Although there is such a thing as 'irregular betting pattern'. A risky and criminal act. In the absence of serious deterrent, potentially viable
Report kjansch July 3, 2020 8:04 PM BST
happens 4-5 times a year

just void in running and settle pre race , all the in running is essentially false

Disgrace really that betfair dont have this protection for punters built in , its  the stuff of comic books
Report Wesdag July 3, 2020 8:15 PM BST
void the whole lot imo
Report Big Cat July 3, 2020 8:18 PM BST
Voiding the IR market (in this exact circumstance), would eliminate ideas of corruption
Personally, I don't think any 2nd placed horse is value when layed at 1000/1
Personally, I wouldn't lay big odds as I'm prone to occasional clicking errors
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 8:20 PM BST
Dave and big cat,explain then how this was all organised and how £50K,traceable btw benefits anyone with the proceeds nailed on to be frozen?
Report Big Cat July 3, 2020 8:22 PM BST
I've never layed 3 figures (odds) IR and I've never backed less than 1.09 IR
Clicking mistakes (and Stewards) eat into the wisdom of doing so
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 8:22 PM BST
Btw BF "Hard pressed to prove anything"? LOL all BF have to do if called upon is supply the betting details.......no more and no less.
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 8:24 PM BST
You called ME naive Big Cat............would you like me to explain how idiots are caught?
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 8:25 PM BST
And btw why the conspiracy theories are stupid?
Report Big Cat July 3, 2020 8:26 PM BST
glentoby, yes 50K would be tricky to sweep under the carpet
But then, how much was traded on Redarna at 'big prices?
As I say, I'd be surprised if it hasn't been 'pulled off' in the past. Greed however, would be the enemy (as it always is)
Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 8:27 PM BST
@ big cat I specified "regular in running player" specifically to minimise the "irregular betting pattern" scrutiny.  It would be pretty easy to invest £1k or £2k in 500+ backs and 1.01 lays to establish a pattern.

As I and others have said every time this happens - why not just void all in running?  btw although I know this might be verging on conspiritard - those jocks not bothering to weigh in when down the field - who knows if they were carrying the correct weight?  Maybe if they had won, we would have been discussing them as well?
Report Big Cat July 3, 2020 8:28 PM BST
Idiots would be caught because it's a criminal act and Betfair are responsible for revealing 'abnormal activity'
Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 8:29 PM BST
glentoby do you think that there were bets struck on this race in running?  Do you think they have all been frozen?
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 8:30 PM BST
£50k would not keep many in luxury for a month,not even a week.Any trading done on here for that race is 100% legit Big Cat?

Not even 1.01...........NO OFFERS...........somebody fukced up yes..........BUT no betting Conspiracy to be SNIFFED........NAP. HTH
Report Big Cat July 3, 2020 8:31 PM BST
^^^ agreed dave
We're just speculating, but I wouldn't be ruling anything out

If that weight was dropped by accident, it will be recoverable (especially BCD), so where is it??
Report Big Cat July 3, 2020 8:35 PM BST
Happy to agree to disagree
I tried valiantly to back Hortzadar, but my BF LV was half hour of the pace, so I was unsuccessful. Happy days Cool
Report the dealer July 3, 2020 8:37 PM BST
Ate they not weighing in and out in the paddock now? Even less places, if it was the weight cloth to go amiss.
Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 8:40 PM BST
nolan said that he noticed there was no weight cloth as soon as he took off the saddle.
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 8:45 PM BST
How much was shared between the jockey,trainer,stable hands and do not forget the owners..........ALL risking being WARNED OFF?
Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 9:33 PM BST
nolan wouldn't have to know about it, o'meara wasn't there.  Why should the owners be in on it?

This has happened several times - no one has been warned off.

No one is saying that THIS incident was a scam.  Just that it is a temptation that should be stopped by changing the rules.
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 9:41 PM BST
Temptation FOR WHAT DAVE FFS?  £50K is not enough to keep my boat floating for a year!!!!! There is NO WRONGDOING FFS..........someone messed up and that is all.The trainer or Jockey will suffer consequences,maybe both unless they can explain.That is ALL.......FFS most of us have lost money due to a betting scam,some have won unknowingly e.g Flockton Grey.

Are you suggesting destroying a jockeys career,a trainers business and losing all the employees their jobs because of a missing weight cloth?SadCrazy
Report the.mad.dog.man July 3, 2020 9:42 PM BST
pmsl
Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 9:44 PM BST
did you even read my 9.33 post?

Why would any of that happen?
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 9:47 PM BST
I did Dave,still looking for the conspiracy and the reasoning?
Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 9:49 PM BST
Well I suggest you read it again.

Why would nolan have his career destroyed when he didn't saddle the horse?  Why would o'meara who wasn't there have his business ruined?

betfair just need to void all in running bets when the winner is dq'd for weighing in light.  It isn't a big issue.
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 9:52 PM BST
Not for me to decide wwwww..........Who What Where When Why so why should Betfair Void legitimate bets on this race?
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 9:54 PM BST
Bottom line is Caveat Emptor and T&Cs?
Report the old nanny ;-) July 3, 2020 9:59 PM BST
Big Nose Dave used to have a Bote
Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 10:01 PM BST
the entire race is tainted because the weights are wrong.  Betfair voids all bets on dog racing if a dog is withdrawn because the nature of the race has changed.
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 10:09 PM BST
So those paid out on the promoted winner have to give their winnings back and ditto the ew place collectors with the books as well as BF? The books btw,some pay 1st PP regardless of amended? What is achieved by voiding a legit race where somebody messed up?
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 10:11 PM BST
If you lost may I suggest a Quick fix? Harvest Moon.........Flavian Prat at evs then all happy?CoolWink
Report pablo-fanque July 3, 2020 10:11 PM BST
betfair have made the rule to let in-running and pre-race bets stand , but , they should do a survey as to what the customers would prefer imo as they are the ones taking the risk

for me
pre race stands
in-running cancelled as the liabilities can be much greater and it's not fair on someone laying the second imo
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 10:15 PM BST
WinkCool
Report the dealer July 3, 2020 10:15 PM BST
No bookmaker anywhere pays first past the post, on a winner that weighs in light.
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 10:18 PM BST
What happens if they weigh in heavy Dealer?
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 10:20 PM BST
Btw Flavian PRAT weighed in spot on and BF and books also weighed in so hope you all had some at 5/4?WinkHappy
Report pablo-fanque July 3, 2020 10:20 PM BST
No bookmaker anywhere pays first past the post, on a winner that weighs in light.

if that's a reply to me TD , i meant all pre race bets stand after the one weighing in light is thrown out
Report the dealer July 3, 2020 10:20 PM BST
You tell me, you are never wrong are you ?
Report the dealer July 3, 2020 10:21 PM BST
It was to GT
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 10:22 PM BST
Dan Skelton.............."He ain't heavy,he's my brother"Tongue Out
Report pablo-fanque July 3, 2020 10:22 PM BST
What happens if they weigh in heavy Dealer?

think the jockey can get a ban , but they have a pound or so leeway for rain soaked clothes and saddle
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 10:25 PM BST
It was tongue in cheek Pablo,no harm meant.
Report rooster booster July 3, 2020 10:26 PM BST
What happens if they weigh in heavy Dealer?


Usually down to all the sh1te you talk being dumped in the jocks saddle cloth.
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 10:30 PM BST
Well done Rooster,as always a helpful insight into the mystic world of regulation of a sport about which you are Kloo Less like the other trolls 24/7?Cool
Report madhatters July 3, 2020 10:32 PM BST
Only you tobyjughead could defend the process of weighing in light
Blatantly clear not a level playing field IR

Missing your tongue up arris supporters ?
Report rooster booster July 3, 2020 10:36 PM BST
Your countless losses show you to be the fantasist you really are, but you sweep them under the carpet and only sing and gloat when you get an odd winner.

You beat Mart hands down for betting on any old sh1te and that's saying something.

But you already know that.
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 10:38 PM BST
Defending what exactly madhatters? The fact there is no conspiracy and those responsible will be dealt with?

Unlike you I was getting the scum removed from here and defending punters when it was needed?
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 10:41 PM BST
Welcome to open debate and opinion Rooster,now quantify and Qualify your ranting? BTW you look like a seething mess of jealousy!!!!?SadCry
Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 10:43 PM BST
for the umpteenth time - no one is saying THIS was a scam.  They are just saying that the in running leverage available in this scenario should be removed for reasons of integrity (and fair play).
Report madhatters July 3, 2020 10:49 PM BST
glentoby 03 Jul 20 22:09 
So those paid out on the promoted winner have to give their winnings back and ditto the ew place collectors with the books as well as BF? The books btw,some pay 1st PP regardless of amended? What is achieved by voiding a legit race where somebody messed up?

Out of the mouth of idiots

AS Dave says - Integrity
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 10:51 PM BST
Steve has surpassed recent figures and VWD,ITV cannot come near a net like this for expanded viewing figures.LaughWink

Seething and Jealous but at least my bank swelled!!!CoolLaughWink

Don't forget domani,Forza Sardegna,Marco & Stefano!!!!!Wink
Report kevo July 3, 2020 10:56 PM BST
CarlisleIntroducing Racing TV Handicap Hurdle (Div II) 17/02/20

(Class 4) (0-105, 4yo+) 2m1f Inner Soft 10 hurdles
The Clerk of the Scales objected to the winner, BINGO D’OLIVATE (FR), ridden by Brian Hughes, and trained by James Ewart on the grounds of the rider weighing in at 11st having weighed out at 11st 5lbs. BINGO D’OLIVATE (FR) was disqualified and the placings were revised as follows: 1st DEQUALL, 2nd BALLYDONAGH BOY (IRE), 3rd EMISSAIRE (FR) and 4th NOTWHATIAM (IRE). The rider, the trainer, the trainer’s representative, a member of Racecourse Management, the Raceday Assistant and the Clerk of the Scales were interviewed. Hughes was suspended for 3 days as he had failed to draw the correct weight. James Ewart was fined £750 as the cause of the weight loss could not be established.

At a subsequent enquiry it turned out that Hughes had weighed out correctly but when the horse was saddled the weight cloth was mistakenly left off. James Ewart's wife was eventually found responsible after she owned up and had tried to cover up the mistake by placing it on the walkway on the way back to the winners enclosure Security footage shows her removing the weight cloth from under a horse blanket and placing it on the horse walkway.
Report Willie Shafter. July 3, 2020 11:00 PM BST
if it was deliberate how do you guarantee you win the race?
Report glentoby July 3, 2020 11:07 PM BST
Any point in asking Steve.................like UFO's the theorists are on here.!!!!

Cracker btw..............drew them out and then the clueless trolls..........priceless!!!LoveLoveWink
Report kevo July 3, 2020 11:09 PM BST
Willie Shafter. 03 Jul 20 23:00 
if it was deliberate how do you guarantee you win the race?

If you are replying to me Willie it wasn't deliberate, it was a mistake. The wife panicked.
Report dave1357 July 3, 2020 11:16 PM BST

Jul 4, 2020 -- 12:00AM, Willie Shafter. wrote:


if it was deliberate how do you guarantee you win the race?


A fav without any weight?  Likely to give plenty of opportunity for in running laying I'd think.

Report ItsMeSwaddle July 3, 2020 11:28 PM BST
Agree with Dave, voiding has very few downsides.

Ban should be a lot bigger as well.

Change the rules, or how about we let horses that complete without a jockey onboard stand as well guys?
Report Willie Shafter. July 3, 2020 11:55 PM BST
a horse isnt guaranteed to win carrying 4lbs less than allocated..

it shudnt happen simple as..happens all too often for my liking.
Report chavman July 4, 2020 12:09 AM BST
what has transpired here that merits 124 replies please
Report ItsMeSwaddle July 4, 2020 12:17 AM BST
Glentoby had a few bevs.
Report smirnoff2therescue July 4, 2020 12:27 AM BST
its a bit like the fc markets on here by way of solving problem - if a horse is DQd for weighing in light/too heavy then IR market should be voided - in fc betting a horse not entering stalls prior to off deems market null n void - amazing how betfair void all winning bets by the way but quite often tekk foreva to settle "in accordance" with their rules when ya bet was a loser anyway (i.e. return ya stakes) PlainPlainSadSad
Report Brian July 4, 2020 9:03 AM BST
I would agree with voiding all in-running bets when there is a weight discrepancy but at the same time I suspect the 1000 layers, while agreeing with voiding, also know there are many 1000s of races where this doesn't happen so they will continue as the odds remain in their favour.
Report howard July 4, 2020 10:08 AM BST
So if you've layed Redarna IR pre-race and backed it IR the former stands and the latter viod ? WALOFS.
Report howard July 4, 2020 10:08 AM BST
void
Report howard July 4, 2020 10:10 AM BST
layed pre-race, backed IR
Report dave1357 July 4, 2020 10:23 AM BST
That happens more often when the event isn't put in play properly, do you think that rule should be changed?
Report pixie July 4, 2020 10:34 AM BST
Completely unfair on the jockey, unless he's the one who is saddling up how on earth can he be responsible and subsequently banned or fined? I wonder if the trainer's wife would have said anything if security cameras hadn't picked up what happened!
Report Willie Shafter. July 4, 2020 10:51 AM BST
ive said from the outset,if there is any interruption to the in play market the entire market should be void.

hardly rocket science.
Report howard July 4, 2020 10:52 AM BST
Dave , that happens more often but it's Betfair's fault. So as there's "no other exchange " you have to take it.
Report second again July 4, 2020 11:35 AM BST
I backed a jumper a few years ago, I think Fergie owned it.He won the race and weighed in a couple of pounds light,as it was a very hot day he was allowed to keep the race as the jockey could have sweated the 2lb.That was the 1st time I have known a light winner to be allowed to keep the race.I feel for anyone who lost because of that yesterday.
Report Latalomne July 4, 2020 12:00 PM BST
For those of you wanting the IR voided, surely the DQed horse should also be deemed a NR from pre-race markets (with appropriate R4) unless the loss of weight can be explained during the race (eg the weight cloth falls out while they're running)?
Report RacingLuck July 4, 2020 12:43 PM BST

Jul 3, 2020 -- 7:53PM, Willie Shafter. wrote:


we are waiting on rl now


Horse Racing > Ham 3rd Jul : 1m Hcap    Showing 1 - 1 of 1 Selections
Selection    Odds    Stake(£)    Bid type    Placed    Profit/loss(£)
Makthecat    *    83.48    10.68    Lay         10.68
*Average odds: On  Off    Back subtotal:    0.00
Lay subtotal:    10.68
Market subtotal:    10.68
Commission @ 7.96%:    0.85
Net Market Total:    9.83

Cant remember if i tried to lay 2nd horse Scared Surprised you didn't lay it at 1000 willie Shocked

Report Willie Shafter. July 4, 2020 12:44 PM BST
why should the IR be voided? no diff to a horse getting disq.
Report dave1357 July 4, 2020 1:18 PM BST
wat?  obv it's different.  The weight falling off during the run is the equivalent of the stewards/DQ as the incident can be observed, but no one can possibly know a horse hasn't been saddled with the right weight.

@Latalomne that seems reasonable.
Report wondersobright July 4, 2020 1:26 PM BST
people seem to forget that you are not betting on first past the post, you are betting on the official result after the weighed in signal has been given, and by definition they are not always the same thing

caveat emptor!!
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