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Of course he would not have Won but rushing him up the field after he missed the break was farcical.
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To be fair if the ground was good or firmer Monarch wins a minute imo. I can see this horse winning a Haydock Sprint cup or a July Cup over a stiff 6f on faster going
I have re watched the Sir Dragonet ride in full a few times now and it was either over confidence or a completely inept ride by RM.
He came wide in the straight but waited far too long to get serious on the horse as the winner had flown.
This has been going on now for about the guts of 2 seasons and his race positioning has gone to the dogs.
He came wide in the straight but waited far too long to get serious on the horse as the winner had flown.
This has been going on now for about the guts of 2 seasons and his race positioning has gone to the dogs.
NOT SAYING YOUR WRONG
but for my notebook what makes you think a horse put on his arse early on heavy ground over 7 furlongs,shouts 6 furlongs on fast ground,
but for my notebook what makes you think a horse put on his arse early on heavy ground over 7 furlongs,shouts 6 furlongs on fast ground,
Agree Punchestown, one way of riding Ascot and unable to change...
I think he does ride with to much over confidence sometimes. I'm gutted I backed him 5/4 top lock when Frankie was odds on. I ain't happy with him.
Last year I backed the horse in coronation Cup Epsom and he did same thing there as well. Can't recall the horse.
Last year I backed the horse in coronation Cup Epsom and he did same thing there as well. Can't recall the horse.
Workrider,I made that point in another thread,Micky Joe would always be in the first 3 or 4 as he didn't want any trouble in running.
Sad thing for us punters losing confidence in him.. He rides a lot of fancied horses, so what do we do? Not back the horse because he's on board?
Not a good situation for us punters lacking confidence in him.
Not a good situation for us punters lacking confidence in him.
I've laid him here for small money , can't see War Fronts winning in this going...
just on todays evidence
he,s gone from no better or worse than anybody else,to losing 2 top class races any bog average northern jock would have won on
he,s gone from no better or worse than anybody else,to losing 2 top class races any bog average northern jock would have won on
Seamie would have won on them both. Surprised he isn't their number 1.
1st time poster you are correct. We can't keep defending him after what we've seen today.
It should be 2/2 since the intial sl*gging off earlier
but he's still useless, I could have won on htat
but he's still useless, I could have won on htat
One good horse,pulled hard early and tbf to RM got cover,horse head and shoulders above the rest.
To be fair, think most jockeys win on that, miles ahead of the rest.
Ride them near the pace is the key with nearly all of APOB's horses,out the back means you are depending on luck to get your run.
Actually I probably wouldn't have won on it I'd have shat myself when tucked in behind tracking but the point stands 99% of jocks win on it 
Apologies 1st time poster- I think his runs against Siskin at 6f were very good. Granted he got beat by less on soft ground than he did on good ground when he was a 2 year old against that horse. That has turned out to be top form and when he can't win over 7f on soft ground in a group 3 race that I thought was crap I think it tells some sort of story. I think he's going to better with a very stiff 6f on fast ground to show his very best.Just my opinion and I do think he will win a top prize when he has the conditions outlined. However I do concede he was given a lot to do today.
I understand he won, did he win from the front or mid division? Not from the back (again).
That was a good ride by Moore,got everything out of the horse and was the only horse to give the winner any sort of race.No need for the out the back stuff.
The apologists not even turned up here, the game must be up 
The apologists out in force on ITV 4 this morning,though.
^^
I've stopped watching the programmes - no valuable info could be gathered. It's a publicity platform for the afternoon programme.
I've stopped watching the programmes - no valuable info could be gathered. It's a publicity platform for the afternoon programme.
punchestown18 Jun 20 14:40Joined: 03 Apr 06 | Topic/replies: 5,185 | Blogger: punchestown's blog
I have re watched the Sir Dragonet ride in full a few times now and it was either over confidence or a completely inept ride by RM.
He came wide in the straight but waited far too long to get serious on the horse as the winner had flown.
This has been going on now for about the guts of 2 seasons and his race positioning has gone to the dogs.
the only part of this i would disagree with is the number. If ye went back at least 5 years of particularly RA, this forum was exactly the same as it has been this time around. Endless topics of him out the back - getting boxed in et al. He rides the round course like a numpty. Maybe he misses the bell!
I have re watched the Sir Dragonet ride in full a few times now and it was either over confidence or a completely inept ride by RM.
He came wide in the straight but waited far too long to get serious on the horse as the winner had flown.
This has been going on now for about the guts of 2 seasons and his race positioning has gone to the dogs.
the only part of this i would disagree with is the number. If ye went back at least 5 years of particularly RA, this forum was exactly the same as it has been this time around. Endless topics of him out the back - getting boxed in et al. He rides the round course like a numpty. Maybe he misses the bell!
Let's call it a decade of injudicious rides at Ascot; 10 years, and he'd learnt NOTHING!
A classic example was when he was on Seventh Heaven (5/4f) in 2016. It was a ride of immense horror not even a blind jockey could not have replicated.
The amount of Favs he's been on and turned over at Ascot this week. Begs belief.
Last day to atone tomorrow on More Beautiful and Admiral Nelson.
If Frankie can beat him with his stablemate in the next, it won't look good.
Dettori let him out. I'd which plonker backed him into 10.5 here for The Derby. He beat a bunch of non-entities over 1m 6f.
We can easily moan race by race but the records will show, so far, 4 wins this week for O'Brien and 4 for R Moore.
4 is a (slightly) sub-par return for what he's ridden
4 out of how many rides, and the chances of his rides eg fancy or outsiders?
my reply was to jumper, wonders. Just in case ye was wondersing
See the Ryan Moore cyber bully impossible 123 has reverted to type.
Sorry Jumper but he should be winning at least 4 with the firepower he's got.
He's ridden 9 favourites at Ascot this week with numerous fancied other runners.
I can't see how anyone can defend him. If Jamie Spencer was on board still he'd have been ripped apart.
I can't see how anyone can defend him. If Jamie Spencer was on board still he'd have been ripped apart.
Agreed but if we go back and look at previous years, we can say that everytime. 6 winners but should have been 9 or 10. They have a lot of darts to throw, so you'd expect some to stick, But yes, this year, the 4 should be at least 6/7 at this rate.
Going back to previous years he'd repeatedly ridden howlers eg Seventh Heaven and Order Of St George.
FELTFAIR,nobody is above criticism,RLM for some unknown reason has in a lot of races decided to drop his mounts out the back,whether it suits the horse or not.
If you remember MJ Kinane's tenure in the role he would always be up with the leader or right on their tails with everything covered because he knew he was on either the best horse in the race or at least one of them.He utilised the same tactics when he rode for HRC or M Stoute and is why he was the go to jockey in Group 1's when he was available.
RLM used to do this for most of his career and he was a top class rider but for some reason in the last couple of years has changed his style,this is what is so perplexing/frustrating to observers.
If you remember MJ Kinane's tenure in the role he would always be up with the leader or right on their tails with everything covered because he knew he was on either the best horse in the race or at least one of them.He utilised the same tactics when he rode for HRC or M Stoute and is why he was the go to jockey in Group 1's when he was available.
RLM used to do this for most of his career and he was a top class rider but for some reason in the last couple of years has changed his style,this is what is so perplexing/frustrating to observers.
Horse has never won right handed and Moore totally lost the plot a couple of years ago, fools and their money are easily parted. Moore done his best to get Santiago beat but thankfully the horse done it for him.
Ryan Moore has caught Jamie Spencer syndrome, out the back and trying to look super cool at the end
Doesn't work 99% of the time though does it
Doesn't work 99% of the time though does it
Punchestown there are an army of jockey, trainer, presenter knockers on here, yourself included which I accept but impossible 123 only singles out Ryan Moore over and over again and has done for years. For me this is bullying and should not be tolerated.
Incidentally I never criticise jockeys but if I were to pick out a particularly bad ride it was Mick Kinane on Yesterday in the 2003 Oaks.
That said these guys risk life and limb for our entertainment and do not warrant constant criticism.
Incidentally I never criticise jockeys but if I were to pick out a particularly bad ride it was Mick Kinane on Yesterday in the 2003 Oaks.
That said these guys risk life and limb for our entertainment and do not warrant constant criticism.
To us impartial observers with no axe to grind, Ryan Moore has changed his style very little in recent years,still gets the results, and I for one,
would have very few ahead of him to ride my horse.
And I also believe that the silent majority probably agree.
would have very few ahead of him to ride my horse.
And I also believe that the silent majority probably agree.
I would rather Stevie Wonder ride one for me than Mr Moore.
Fair enough FELTFAIR,I'm just speaking for myself.
I am loathe to give out about any jockey because of the perilous nature of their occupation-especially NH lads (albeit the top lads are well remunerated for their efforts in both codes).
I would be interested to hear if you noticed any difference in RLM's riding style in the last couple of years?
I am loathe to give out about any jockey because of the perilous nature of their occupation-especially NH lads (albeit the top lads are well remunerated for their efforts in both codes).
I would be interested to hear if you noticed any difference in RLM's riding style in the last couple of years?
Coolmore, John Magnier et al, and Aiden O'Brien are listening to this forum and saying; while we may fall way too short of the forum training and riding experts, we will try our best to scratch a living.
Believe it or not Kevo,the only reason he is still there is because Ocean will not commit to the deal they have offered him,it is a poisoned chalice,possibly less so since the nepotism has come to an end.If you would lay me evens Ocean being their replacement by next season,I would take your house,wife and all assets and then return them because I despise theft.
Not in detail Kevo but he will be hard pushed to refuse it,it might actually be the first time for many years, he could accept the chalice and not be poisoned by the contents.
Punchestown, there was a topic on the struggling Irish Sports forum a few years back that Aiden was finished with Coolmore.
What did you make of that?
What did you make of that?
Will never ever forgive him for the ride he gave Order Of St George in the 2017 Gold Cup, last leg of an accumulator which had been running from the Tuesday - sickening!
+44 116 123 Samaritans. Get over it Paterson92, your not the only one. But why didn't you green out from a fantastic trading arb.
+44 116 123 Samaritans. Get over it Paterson92, your not the only one. But why didn't you green out from a fantastic trading arb.
If you have NO tactical awareness, at the top level of this game you get shown up.
It wouldn't be who I would have ahead of him, rather who I wouldn't.
It wouldn't be who I would have ahead of him, rather who I wouldn't.
Dettori on Stradivarius on thursday was undisputedly on the best horse yet he was very much aware he'd not be boxed in at any time of the race, and rode accordingly. Similarly, in previous Gold Cups and the other races where AOB had a battalion to try and thwart Dettori and Stradivarius from gaining the £1m bonus for winning those 3 nominated prestigious races.
Let's dispell this myth that jockeys risk life and limb for our entertainment.
They are not in it to provide entertainment for the masses.
They are not in it to provide entertainment for the masses.
O/T
Compare to the genuine risk takers in Nascar Racing horse racing is a walk-in-the-park. I think it's riskier for motorists going round the M25 daily at rush hours.
I think Arizona will finish infront of Wichita given the soft ground - he did the time before The Guineas.
Compare to the genuine risk takers in Nascar Racing horse racing is a walk-in-the-park. I think it's riskier for motorists going round the M25 daily at rush hours.
I think Arizona will finish infront of Wichita given the soft ground - he did the time before The Guineas.
Punchestown, in answer to your question, no I don`t. Clearly some horses like to get to the front and be up with the pace but in general most horses perform to their best when they are allowed to settle and travel and then if good enough quicken and battle and in my opinion there is nobody better than Ryan Moore at executing these requirements.
Unfortunately a great many Ballydoyle horses are just not good enough and are always over bet and when beaten it is the jockey`s fault. In 2017 Ballydoyle won an amazing 28 Group 1 races and since then expectation has been off the scale and unfortunately such a performance is unlikely to be replicated.
Yes Ballydoyle, inevitably with a stallion like Galileo, are going to have some very good horses each year but if you back them all there will be more losers than winners. When sadly Galileo departs this planet then I foresee a drop in Ballydoyle`s fortunes despite Aiden`s brilliance as a trainer.If this happens I could see Ryan Moore going free lance and spending more time in England but being replaced I would doubt.
I was a great fan of Joseph O`Brien who achieved so much for a young lad but he was constantly criticised, again because of the expectation placed on Ballydoyle horses.
Incidentally I have only backed one Ballydoyle horse this week because I didn`t think any of them were good enough with the exception of of Circus Maximus but didn`t back because of the apparent openness of the race and it being the first outing for the horse. The result exemplified all the attributes outlined above and a jockey with the skill to deliver.
Sorry for such a long winded response.
Unfortunately a great many Ballydoyle horses are just not good enough and are always over bet and when beaten it is the jockey`s fault. In 2017 Ballydoyle won an amazing 28 Group 1 races and since then expectation has been off the scale and unfortunately such a performance is unlikely to be replicated.
Yes Ballydoyle, inevitably with a stallion like Galileo, are going to have some very good horses each year but if you back them all there will be more losers than winners. When sadly Galileo departs this planet then I foresee a drop in Ballydoyle`s fortunes despite Aiden`s brilliance as a trainer.If this happens I could see Ryan Moore going free lance and spending more time in England but being replaced I would doubt.
I was a great fan of Joseph O`Brien who achieved so much for a young lad but he was constantly criticised, again because of the expectation placed on Ballydoyle horses.
Incidentally I have only backed one Ballydoyle horse this week because I didn`t think any of them were good enough with the exception of of Circus Maximus but didn`t back because of the apparent openness of the race and it being the first outing for the horse. The result exemplified all the attributes outlined above and a jockey with the skill to deliver.
Sorry for such a long winded response.
Punchestown, there was a topic on the struggling Irish Sports forum a few years back that Aiden was finished with Coolmore.
What did you make of that?
---------------------------------------------
Don't know where that story started or by whom but we can all see how baseless it was/is.
-----------------------------------------------
FELTFAIR,it's a game of opinions at the end of the day and I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree,best of luck to you.
What did you make of that?
---------------------------------------------
Don't know where that story started or by whom but we can all see how baseless it was/is.
-----------------------------------------------
FELTFAIR,it's a game of opinions at the end of the day and I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree
,best of luck to you.
Punchestown, there was a topic on the struggling Irish Sports forum a few years back that Aiden was finished with Coolmore.
What did you make of that?
---------------------------------------------
Don't know where that story started or by whom but we can all see how baseless it was/is.
-----------------------------------------------
FELTFAIR,it's a game of opinions at the end of the day and I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree,best of luck to you.
What did you make of that?
---------------------------------------------
Don't know where that story started or by whom but we can all see how baseless it was/is.
-----------------------------------------------
FELTFAIR,it's a game of opinions at the end of the day and I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree
,best of luck to you.
A lot of horses given quiet rides with better targets ahead
RothamMike, really?
Well just shows what a poor bunch of jocks are around if you have him near the top your list. Frankie almost 50yrs old out riding him tactical, even 2 lady jockey's with limited rides have rode winners.
Do me a favour.. And the leading Jock at Ascot was an ex NH jockey... That's so funny.
Well just shows what a poor bunch of jocks are around if you have him near the top your list. Frankie almost 50yrs old out riding him tactical, even 2 lady jockey's with limited rides have rode winners.
Do me a favour.. And the leading Jock at Ascot was an ex NH jockey... That's so funny.
Rothman is one of said apologists.
Wouldn't smell the $hite if you smeared it on his top lip.
Wouldn't smell the $hite if you smeared it on his top lip.
Gutted did him there. Thought last 200 yards he would get up.
Jockeys do NOT ride horse for the punters , they don`t give a .... about them . Same as the the trainers and owners , they DON`T race horses for us punters , lol ,,,, a fact
Well done Ryan - two very nice rides on novice 2yo's. They will have learned a lot and will probably go in again. I'm sure the maestro who employed you ( and the owners ) are quite delighted at your skill and care of their athletes. And let's face it when Sir Michael Stoute rates anyone that's the only recommendation that matters. Mr 20%!
Moore rides Sir Stoute's horse very differently to AOB's if one is observant eg position his mount to give it the best possible chance of winning because Sir Stoute@s and his patrons will give him the boot asap if Moore's rides on AOB's charges are replicated on his charges.
Moore was sh1t at Ascot this year, similarly last year and the year before.
Moore was sh1t at Ascot this year, similarly last year and the year before.
No, if all you Ryan Knockers had any self-respect you'd apologise for your abuse after "the" Sir Dragonet inspired bile. Today you can now see that the horse itself is ungenuine/unreliable and doesn't have the necessary desire to win. Or did Heffernan also ride it terribly?
just as bad and the trainer to boot its a 12/14 furlong horse but their desperate to show its got so much speeeeed by winning over 10,but they wont do it riding it for speed, imo, they,ll either have to go from the front or fall into a fast run 10F race
he,s not a monkey,ungenuine, imo just doesn't have the pace
he,s not a monkey,ungenuine, imo just doesn't have the pace
LoyalHoncho27 Jun 20 17:29Joined: 28 May 10 | Topic/replies: 4,417 | Blogger: LoyalHoncho's blog
No, if all you Ryan Knockers had any self-respect you'd apologise for your abuse after "the" Sir Dragonet inspired bile. Today you can now see that the horse itself is ungenuine/unreliable and doesn't have the necessary desire to win. Or did Heffernan also ride it terribly?
Yep he did. Slow run race ridden for speed .Done for toe.
As 1st time stated want to get group race over 1m 2 but theyve not quite realised it aint Dancing Brave/Frankel
No, if all you Ryan Knockers had any self-respect you'd apologise for your abuse after "the" Sir Dragonet inspired bile. Today you can now see that the horse itself is ungenuine/unreliable and doesn't have the necessary desire to win. Or did Heffernan also ride it terribly?
Yep he did. Slow run race ridden for speed .Done for toe.
As 1st time stated want to get group race over 1m 2 but theyve not quite realised it aint Dancing Brave/Frankel
Sir Dragonet was FAT on his 1st outing of the season thus thumped despite having nearly a stone in hand of the winner Numerian. Then given too much to do in a more competitive race at Ascot even a fool could see. And, today finished infront of the horse that beat him 1st time out, but behind Buckhurst who's good form and been running in Gp company.
I believe Sir Dragonet was over-rated by his win at Chester. I suspect a step back up in trip to where he last won for his next outing.
I believe Sir Dragonet was over-rated by his win at Chester. I suspect a step back up in trip to where he last won for his next outing.
Maybe Aiden thinks he could win a July Cup though?
Put him away for the Arc
Put him away for the Arc
"Moore was sh1t at Ascot this year, similarly last year and the year before."
Impossible 123 the Ryan Moore cyber bully, stupid and beyond ignorant.
Impossible 123 the Ryan Moore cyber bully, stupid and beyond ignorant.
BornToWin, Apologist I might be, but Abusive I am not.
A Lesson you would do well to learn.
A Lesson you would do well to learn.
Apologies Mike.
A crass version of 'can't see the wood for the trees', which I am sure you wouldn't class as abuse. So I should have used that.
A crass version of 'can't see the wood for the trees', which I am sure you wouldn't class as abuse. So I should have used that.
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