English King

Very impressive, but what did it beat ?

Jesus you are easily pleased.

Very impressive.

Derby 4th maybe

No fancy Colours behind, granted but he did it mighty impressively..

Would not win The Derby if it started yesterday.

Derby winner runs tomorrow at 15:00

chamberlain now, english king 25/1 immediatly after the race

it was 9 on here to lay

8/1 best odds now. 5/1 fav with S Bet

I just missed the 25/1 but got a good chunk at 16/1 on 365. Not sure he’ll win but I’ve got something to play with now.

I wouldn't have a clue as to his chance at Epsom, but hey, what a great name for a Derby winner!

Like many I had him on a list of horses to watch out for this season. I didn't have enough faith in Marquand/Walker at today's price.

Walker's horses hadn't done much and Marquand got jocked off Threat for Pat Dobbs last season. He still has plenty to prove.

As for the horse he definitely looks the part and was about as impressive as anyone could expect. That said perhaps punters have got (very) carried away in the aftermath as he now looks very short. 5/1 looks crazy.

He looked impressively nevertheless, 7/1 jf (5/1 with sly) is barmy considering so many big guns yet to play their hand. The ground and possibly the fitness of the others played a  part in their performances too, I believe.

Have the gallops been closed?

he did what he needed to do, won easily under a good ride from Marquand. travelled well off a fast pace, cruised into contention and quickened really well. hard to knock imho. anyone sitting on double figure prices for the Derby should be well pleased. has to go there with a fighting chance regardless of what the field will be.

Considering it won so well on that ground are we to assume because of that if the ground changed it seriously diminishes it's chance?

English King new Derby favourite as Walker colt slams rivals in Lingfield Trial



acey deucy

Would not win The Derby if it started yesterday.

Hmmmm...

English King is no bigger than 8-1 for the Derby after proving utterly dominant in Lingfield's Derby Trial.

In what was a fast-run race, the Ed Walker-trained colt bided his time under Tom Marquand before being delivered over a furlong out and cruising past Berkshire Rocco to run out a cosy winner. The front pair pulled well clear of third-placed Summeronsevenhills.

Bookmakers didn't go far enough in their initial reaction. Coral immediately cut him to 16-1 from 40-1 but then slashed him again to 6-1 favourite within half an hour of the race, while Sky Bet make him 5-1 favourite.

With regards to Epsom, English King ticked pretty much all the boxes here.

Every year people knock the winner of the Lingfield trial but this winner must be considered for the Derby.

If English King was owned by one of the sheiks and trained by Gosden... He'd be 6/4 Favorite.

Saw it this morning and thought it was too short. i like the trainer he doesn't seem to mess about. Well done if you backed it!

He handled the track brilliantly but Derby Winners rarely come from lingfield trials iirc.

I agree sparrow , if handles Lingfield then will likely handle Epsom ,

improving and impressive so silly to rule out with likely fa more improvement to come ,but you would want more than 5s I think

but its a good point if it was from one of the top yards would be far lower right now

Is there a Chester Meeting this season? Otherwise only about a month to Epsom.

I can’t remember the last Lingfield Derby trial winner going onto win the Derby.

im not jumping into that net Hibore

Anthony Van Dyck 2019

Anthony Van ****

unless the whole field underperformed has to be rated 110+ and sure to improve again..visually very impressive...as said,if trained by gosden would be 5/2.

notwithstanding the 6 obrien will probably throw at it with the usual spoiling team tactics

The idea that a horse would be so much shorter if trained by whoever is becoming less and less applicable as bookmakers become more and more cautious.

How many Group winners has Ed Walker trained? Has he even trained a Group 1 winner?

Again how many has Marquand ridden?

was today its derby?..can ed walker be trusted to have it 100% on the big day...

differentdrum 05 Jun 20 17:24   
How many Group winners has Ed Walker trained? Has he even trained a Group 1 winner?

Erm, sort of, Ed won a Sandown handicap with Glorious Forever, who went on to win a Group 1 in Hong Kong.

With regard to Classic Trials, Ed of course trained Stormy Antarctic to bolt up in what was probably a poor Craven, before flopping two weeks later in the 2000 gns. However, SA was a horse he did well with, winning a few Group races.

High Rise in 1998 was the last to win the lingfield derby trial and the derby before AVD last year
Before that the double was done in '85
Like i said, rare.

You should follow Tom Marquand differentdrum he is not a bad jockey.

Kahyasi in 1988 also did the double.

high rise won in a time of 2min 24, teenoso 2.54 , 30 seconds slower, god the ground must have been terrible.WHAT WAS TODAYS TIME?

I’d already looked earlier. It was 2.24 which was quick

the price disparity between a john gosden trained horse and an ed walker trained horse hardly justifies argument

hibore, was yesterdays race 2.24 , or like me you were mentioning high rise time.?

thing is this year will they go now for king edward at r ascot before or instead of the derby?

Yesterday’s race was 2.24.

cheers,

Just can’t have Ed Walker as a Derby-winning trainer.

Kameko

Cant be having him... imo.

doubt if the new fav now will turn up at epsom imo

I cannot have Kameko for the Epsom Derby as he'd be another Roaring Lion; the Epsom Derby could be 2f too far.

Dettori booked.

Had a feeling that was going to happen.

Let's face it if you had one shot at winning a Derby would you rather have Dettori or Marquand?

I feel its wrong to take Marquand off the horse irrespective of the quality of Dettori ... he has done nothing wrong & wil be a future champion
Personally hope it runs like a rag

Dettori all day long. It's The Derby.

Won't be winning the Derby. others will have far too much speed. A Leger horse, Cups next year maybe.

Owners decision the Trainer would not even have a say in it...Harsh on young Marquand mind you.

On his death bed he might realise loyalty is more valuable than chasing every note in existence. Because I can safely say he doesn't need the money to keep a roof over his head.

owners' prerogative etc

marquand off dettori on...small -ve imo

would be more concerned at field size, draw, how many coolmore runners line up etc if I was connections of EK or a backer

Also many people wouldn't have given the same name to another horse after his 2-y-o EK died in 2015.

Easy to see why the Owner is in love with Dettori after his exploits on Stradivarius.

4th July this year (Independence Day) .. Omens are screaming out to us....   

I fancy Dust Bin Suroors Horse Military March....That old adage 4th in The Guineas Ist in The Derby.

I'm on EK.. Now it's in the lap of the Gods... If he wins, form reads 7111 .. Now if 7 = G = King George III 

I'll keep taking the tablets...

Acey - I remember that old adage. Generous 1991

A no-brainer decision in my book. It'd be silly not to when Dettori is available. Will he win? I'm not a fan.

Couldn't have been more impressed with this horse at Lingfield. Slight reservation was I wasn't sure how strong the form was but think Berkshire Rocco's run at Ascot has to be a positive (some might say that it's not exactly a quick horse but it seemed to travel comfortably enough up with the pace at Lingfield and looked to quicken into contention at Ascot before being outstayed). I always try like a bear to look away from the favourite in big races trying to seek some value, often to the point of over thinking things but just loved the way this horse settled and covered every move that was made in the race at Lingfield. It broke slowly on it's debut and again at Lingfield but not to the extent that I think it will be a major issue given that it travelled so easily during the race. Do I think it is value? probably not but there is certainly no other horse in the race I would consider backing against it.

Marquand gave EK a beautiful ride at Lingfield, in terms of the efficiency of the trip, switching the horse off, producing the horse lovely to win the race and filling the horse with lots of confidence. They looked a match made in heaven.

A surprising and disappointing decision to jock off a young jockey whose star is very much in its ascendency, IMO.

just watched his interview with Chapman tonight, what an absolute gent he is. his handling of the situation was top notch from someone so young and obviously with the disappointment he has just had.

The decision was far closer to being inevitable rather than surprising.

On the biggest stage there is no comparison between the two jocks. Dettori is one of the best big race jocks in the history of the sport.

The Derby will likely be a totally different ball game to the two strolls Marquand has had on the horse. If the owner thinks he has a once in a lifetime chance to the win the Derby the last thing he wants to be doing is worrying about whether the jock is going to mess up.

I was surprised when I first read it, but obviously it isn't surprising when you consider the Stradivarius link between owner and jockey.

In the 1980's iirc Teenoso, Slip Anchor and Khayasi all won the Lingfield Derby Trial before winning at Epsom.

dettori is no lester around Epsom is he,not like its ascot

Very True !!

what price loyalty?
Wally was 19,never got jocked off Shergar.
Feel gutted for the lad.
Dettori is world class but he don't win
the Derby every other year.

I am sure i am not alone in hoping the Horse gets stuffed.

Was just going to post similar acey.

Youg Marquand riding out of his skin right now he deserved better.

I wouldn't mind guessing the Trainer would have been more than happy to stick with Marquand.

not sure that dettori is one of the best big race jockeys in the history of the sport, his record last few years has been fantastic but theyve nearly all been gosdens horses with nearly 7lb in hand, like j obrien he was a real big race jockey  for his dad but again he had 10 lb better horses underneath him.
gosden is domination uk racing at the moment and any jockey could win on his horses, even havlin seems unbeatable at the moment.
imo kinane, murtagh , fallon were superior big race jockey

I hate this jocking off lark. Too much hoo-ha about jockeys . When the gates open it's just another race -could be a mile and half h'cap at Redcar. All jockeys I heard talking after a first Gr.1 ride/win have confirmed this.media ballyhoo doesn't affect the actual race as run.
Nothing against Frankie but i hope it's beaten a nose.

English King will be overbet on the day. TY Dettori. Marquand is the future. Good luck to TM

This is what i emailed to a friend last night.

I knew that Frankie had taken the ride on English King and he wouldn't be the first jockey to 'jock off' another on a big race favorite, Lester was a master at it. John Gosden may not have a runner of significance in the race anyway and the owner of English King has history with Frankie via Stradivarius so it wasn't really a surprise.

Let's look at the Lingfield Derby trial and i agree that he was an impressive winner, but consider the field (it was only listed class) and pace that was strong from the outset, too strong really and this is borne out by Jamies sectional analysis. Several of them dropped away tamely. English King raced from off the pace and although he took a while to pass the runner-up at the 1f pole, the further they went the better he looked. The race winning time was very good although the going was good to firm.

Bear in mind what he beat. Nothing has come out of the race and subsequently advertised the form, although the runner up did run 2nd at RA and is obviously a staying type as opposed to a middle distance horse.

English Kings sire, Frankie, being lightly raced and the fact he won at Lingfield (similar undulations to Epsom) are all positives. Trip will not be an issue.

He's never run in a group race and that is a negative, as is the dam, she was useless on the course (0/9) but she has thrown several winners albeit in small grade.

The opposition is an unknown at the moment, but if Kameko (2000 guineas winner) stays 12f he will take some beating. The first classic is a good trial for the Derby as the sire of English King will testify. There have been many dual classic winners even in my racing history going back to Sir Ivor, Nijinsky, Nashwan and Sea The Stars to name a few.

My bottom line conclusion would be - is he good enough to win the Derby ?

what about 5 ballydoyle jocks trying to block Marquand in vubiant

A no brainer for the owner shoudnt be slated for it, Marquand always knew the situation

Agree Andrew but that's exactly the type of pace you get in the Derby, so current price about right but due to current events its got big priced unexposed winner written all over it.
Interesting race now imo and weather will play its hand too.
Thing is English King was going away at the end and to me will improve again.

I think the ground played a big part for his win at Lingfield, and he may get it at Epsom too come Derby Day.

Havlin "unbeatable".  He fell off one the other day, managing to clip the heels of another horse in the acres and acres of space that is Newmarket racecourse!

Jun 23, 2020 -- 8:55AM, Fashion Fever wrote:

what about 5 ballydoyle jocks trying to block Marquand in vubiant A no brainer for the owner shoudnt be slated for it, Marquand always knew the situation

Every chance Marquand will now be one of those 5 Ballydoyle jockeys - I would think his ride on Royal Dornoch on Sat was acceptable from their perspective.

Just now needs to channel his inner Padraig Beggy

would be fitting if marquand beat frankie on one of coolmores .

i couldnt back against kameko

looks to have that bit of class required , has top drawer acceleration , and travels through its races very well so i cant see epsom being a problem

been there and done it in G1 , has best form in race and won the best trial

English king is far to short on what its achieved and though a decent horse in anyones book it must overcome rise in class , track , and negotiate one of toughest races in calander with minimal experience

Kameko a no brainer for me , but good luck all

I agree with you hello, especially after the comments from jockey and trainer after the 2000.

I think every horse to run after that Lingfield
race has been hammered,even the 2nd Berkshire Rocco
was a well btn rnr/up at Ascot,aswell.Form's a bit
suspect to me.

Military March a runner?
drifting like a barge,on here.

looks like it's a non runner

Would not win The Derby if it started yesterday....Acey knew.

A few bad Bad Judges on this Forum.

Some bad judges on this forum.