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As racing looks to commence imminently on course bookmaking looks likely to become a thing of memory and storytelling. SP'S will still be returned hence highlighting the need for no books to be present on course. Giving off course firms the opportunity to fine tune their module.
Perhaps not a bad thing as it appears very little skill or even opinion required nowadays for sadly a dying art.
Perhaps not a bad thing as it appears very little skill or even opinion required nowadays for sadly a dying art.
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On course bookmaking has suffered and will continue to suffer like many other lines of business. You obviously hold these bookmakers in very low esteem SQ but I think you would be in a very small minority if a poll was held for for no books on course. If you intend going to the races soon-if you ever do that is - have a good day despite your aversion to the services if they are offered in the betting ring.
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Democrat, do you mean if I personally get to go racing again or in general a comment to all? My point re current onourse layers is thus, they are a joke compared to those now no longer with us or indeed those who chose to get out because of these current robots with no personality or interest in the skills required or indeed the ***** to lay a decent bet. You are correct and infact may stand alone in my thinking but get rid in it's current format. We are about to find out that horse racing can and will survive and infact flourish without these moaning rule breaking, in many cases money extortionists. The opportunity which is once in a life is there to change for the better. Serve no purpose in the current form.
FYI, iam attend meetings very regularly and can't remember when I used an oncourse book last, as it is obvious the theft that is taking place can't even agree to place terms. In it's current form it is abuse of the day out jolly crowd hen/stag/birthday whatever and should be stopped. |
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'Serve no purpose in the current form' and 'can't even agree to place terms' are you able SQ to expound on these two comments for my benefit ? I have since day 1 been on record as saying that oncourse books would rue the day they embraced the use of xch**ges on course. I have not changed this view. I remain, however, perplexed by your criticisms. Good to know you regularly attend meetings. I trust you continue to be satisfied with your betting medium but hope you will keep an open mind as to whether there are in fact better alternatives.
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longer behind closed doors goes on its harder to see them back
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On course bookies are horse & cart. Only in the cash grabbing thick as sh1t run world of racing would technology ( which betting is PERFECTLY suited to ) have not been implemented
to the max. |
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I agree mainly with OP but also now realise the view point of saying they are completely and utterly pointless offends people on here.
I have respect for the older boys that had to physically form a book themselves and use skill to make their book and cash, they have made racing what it is today. What I do not have respect for is todays commission agents, any eejit can do that. |
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Swaddle please read correctly I said "in it's current form".
I belive strongly oncourse bookmakers can and should be a valuable asset for racecourses, racing and hence all involved in racing but sadly they are missing a trick hence"in it's current form"" Swaddle:-" What I do not have respect for is today's commission agents, any eejit can do that". The reason many a ring is empty. I make no apology to those who take offence to facts, these are the ones who are ruining the art off bookmaking. We all know who you are. |
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still don't get having the worst pitch and showing exactly the same odds as the 17 bookies between you and the bar. no problem with social distancing, nobody's coming near you. why would they.
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It is obviously very difficult for an on course bookmaker these days with their large expenses and dwindling amount of punters. But I do not blame the exchanges for this as everyone else seems to but the off course firms with all their special offers and their reps manipulating the on course market prices. It is surely not possible to make a living as some suggest by "having an opinion" as they will not survive very long doing that.
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Sam, your seem to be an experienced and educated man. Pls can you share with us, how an on course bookie should conduct themselves. On occasions niche ways of performing can attract business and profit. This could be a time to shake things up a little, so pls expand on your thoughts and ideas as I for one would be interested to hear them. Thank you.
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free bar of chocolate if your horse comes 2nd to the SP fav (max one bar per customer per day, subject to availability).
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When was the last time you heared a on course bookmaker shouting their odds out like in the old days, also very seldom now do you see on course bookies betting without the fav exept when they have a very short priced fav. On course punters want a variation not like we have now every board showing the same price and all changing at the same time.
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I haven't been on a racecourse for over 2 years now, but I was surprised that there were no bookies offering "place only" odds, as an alternative to the old fashioned "without the fav" bookies. Betfair offer it, so there must be a demand for it. Times change, the colour, noise and vibrancy has gone from the ring IMO, and businesses have to adapt. It must be difficult trying to make a book with a decent over-round to even cover the exes on a midweek meeting, so maybe arbing is the only solution, apart from finding different employment.
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Most bookmakers have realised that bookmaking is not a long term project.just milking it short term.Most would not have the knowledge to operate any other way than blindly follow betfair.How many bookmakers could price up a race without betfair.
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all looks rather bleak for the hundreds of thousands that I've got invested in pitches.
sounds as though I should sell for what I can get and reinvest in betfair shares....what do others think |
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the people who bet with on course bookmakers like to bet in cash and that pool is getting smaller and smaller and the others can just bet into the machine like the bookmakers are doing so no need to use them,sadly i dont see a way back for them especially with the ever increasing expenses
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59 racecourses, 176 betting rings and 10,531 list positions.
There's part of the problem! Ring numbers must be reduced in my opinion, but I'm not a bookmaker anymore, just a workman now! |
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and there was I thinking that you had been put to pasture and the gates firmly locked
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 Hope you are well Alan!  |
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Workman ? That is your description - I have heard others which are unrepeatable !! Adge make sure you buy Flutter when you make your share purchase wouldn't want you investing in the wrong company ! As for you worthless portfolio of pitches you could be the first to start the mass sales some are predicting !
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not as well as you , mafia , with all that sea air.
is long as they don't disturb my winter break come november |
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I believe that bookmakers are still integral to a day at the races and can't imagine them not being there. I'm sure racecourses must realise this and therefore the need to be flexible with the admission costs for them if they're not already doing it.
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bookies need to be more customer savvy and give racegoers what they want..........when did you last see a bookie betting without the favourite.......none seem to be able to think for themselves.........one way to help would be banning exchanges from the ring ...making them form their own markets and laying off between themselves......more entertaining for the general public as well....might even get tic tacs back ,,,heres hoping..
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We forget that most people who go racing (particularly on weekends) are there for a bit of fun (excluding the drink yobs) and couldn't care a monkeys that something called Betfair has a better price or what the bookie does. The bookies in the ring are part of the fun and racing will miss them if they are not there.
I do agree that courses need to reduce bookies costs to help them while at the same time also agreeing that course bookmakers, along with the High St mobs, have lost the skills of making a book and attracting customers with different offerings. |
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stick the same prices up as everybody else, then walk out after racing wondering why nobody's had a bet with you. if everybody else is 7/2, try sticking 9/2 up. watch it get beat, then phone the wife & tell to book that nice hotel she likes in Barbados ..
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When are you getting your licence hulk?
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This is the way forward for racecourses and bookies imvho..
£5 entrance fee for midweek racing, £10 saturdays, £20 for classics.. No coach parties, No booze to be taken anywhere on the racecourse other than the bars. Then i'd like to see a ban on exchanges on all racecourses, bookies and Punters, bookies hedge with each other, But bet no more than 2% a runner and offer the traditional place terms, then only charge the Bookie £50 to bet and 1 staff free.. |
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Well dambuster in almost 20 years on here that’s most probably the best post I’ve ever read.
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Really Foxy ? I had a job understanding what was meant by 'traditional place terms'. The inference was that place terms at the moment are somehow unrepresentative. Exchange place terms by comparison are something else !!!
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I fully understood 1/4 odds 1st 4 16 runner handicaps and he is right.
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You can't ban exchanges from the racecourses in this day and age but you could ban the on course shop betting.
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Sorry foxy I didnt see those particular terms mentioned. As you know those races at those terms over a period are invariably a guaranteed loss leader for the books on the place market.
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No you can’t sparrow unfortunately that’s here to stay nor will racecourses charge the public and bookmakers those costs,but it doesn’t mean dambusters post wasn’t an excellent suggestion has to how the betting ring would change for the better,skiptomelou made a very good point about it been more entertaining watching bookmakers bet with each other,we know many bookmakers don’t want change including place terms nor will the racecourses do much if anything to help them,and the exchanges are so powerful they wouldn’t stand for it,so dambusters post as sensible as it is has no chance of happening.
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democrat I am sure with all the other suggestions regarding costs and keeping the money in the ring the bookmakers could absorb the odd bad place book.
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foxy....The place terms are neither here nor there for the ordinary punters but when I go racing I see the on course shops packed with punters and that's where you should be looking. I remember my father clerking on the "aways" before the on course shops and you have lost all that and more to those shops than ever the exchanges.
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s is the way forward for racecourses and bookies imvho..
£5 entrance fee for midweek racing, £10 saturdays, £20 for classics.. No coach parties, No booze to be taken anywhere on the racecourse other than the bars. Then i'd like to see a ban on exchanges on all racecourses, bookies and Punters, bookies hedge with each other, But bet no more than 2% a runner and offer the traditional place terms, then only charge the Bookie £50 to bet and 1 staff free..--- Nice idea but no one would go. Bookies won't go because they would get skint quick and the people that fill the stands won't go if they can't drink (and puke it up) in the sun. There would only 10 of us left!! |
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Yes Foxy but as you have already mentioned, in as many words, the proposals are more of a pipedream than a realistic aim. We can only hope that the racecourses see commonsense regarding entry fees and the linked bookmakers charges before it is too late. Having previously touched on this point with somebody in the hierarchy of JCR I do not hold out a lot of hope.
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They fought the on course shops in Ireland and they have different rules,the bookmakers over here fight nothing together there lies a problem for any change.
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Democrat there is no chance of change anywhere but that doesn’t stop me thinking that dambusters post was as good a post that I have seen on ,we all know it won’t happen in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if all parties drifted further apart with the bookmakers just allowing there tummies to be tickled.
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