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The Gigginstown Outfit
The Gigginstown Outfit
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Buddeliea short answer yes imop. Longer answer I was gonna mention Trevor Hemmings yesterday but left it alone. Seeing as he has been mentioned I find it hard to believe that if had 6 or 7 runners in the race we'd have a similar thread to this. Instead we'd hear how much he has put into the game and goodwill. As regards the anti Irish bias rather than a generalisation I feel there's a definite anti Irish racing bias on here lately. Before this thread we've had people calling for harsher handicapping of Irish runners in the UK, purely to stop them winning. Some continue to bash on about cheating in Ireland but won't acknowledge any wrongdoing in UK races. I won't be surprised if next someone will call for Irish jump jockeys mounts to carry extra weight when riding in the UK as they are superior in general.
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'buddeliea', I'd a premonition this debate/discussion would come to this conclusion ie polarised eg those concerned about sportsmanship and fairness vs those about the fee payers' rights, horse racing is a business, no rule being broken, etc.
No wonder 'Brexit' is too insurmountable even for the learned professionals - legals and non-legals. But that's another subject best not discussed on this thread. |
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Well I would like to think that all owners/trainers are treated the same whether Irish or British.They should be praised or criticised according to their actions not their nationality.
Had hemmings or indeed any other owner had as many runners as Gigginstown I would like to think the OP would still have started this thread. We cannot keep having threads on here implying bias,or people being accused of all sorts, otherwise as a few have said on here lately...this forum is dead. I have been on here for years and never had any of this irish/brit thing going on until recently,well only in jokey type banter. It needs to stop. I enjoy discussion and debate as the amount of posts I have made indicates!! But I am really getting fed up of these type of threads that are happening more and more. |
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Well put. This is a thread for horse racing, and anything pertaining to its integrity, enjoyment and punting.
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Buddeliea while you do indeed engage in debate and banter others just look down their noses at the rest of us unclean and get the hump if they are challenged. Perhaps things would be easier if this didn't go on as much as it did with certain individuals on here. Final point, we have someone going on about integrity and fairness, is it fair to want Irish handicappers to be treated harsher than they are just because they win some races? I don't see Mr. Fairness call out posters who want this to happen. Integrity indeed.
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i can see the potato famine getting dragged into this
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Mjk
Most racegoers over here appreciate the Irish horses coming over I remember back in 2001 the Irish had already decided no horses would travel over to the festival due to foot and mouth many thought there would little point in having a festival without them the rest as they say is history. |
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most racegoers at the festival wouldnt give a damm if the irish horses,trainers or racegoers were there as long as the beer pumps are on
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I don't like O'Leary. I've had the misfortune to use his Poundshop airline twice over the years and never again.
However he does have a lot of decent staying chasers which is what he obviously tries for and that shouldn't be discouraged,particularly as a lot of British trainers seem unable to convert reasonable hurdlers into chasers. |
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i think that alot of the problems with these big handicaps at the festivals come from these decent horses who dont really have to show any form all year and are still rated high enough to get a run
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I addressed this perceived 'anti-Irish' drivel early on in the thread by saying if the Rooneys were running 9 I would make the same point (and also criticised them for bleating about the safety of Cheltenham but having no qualms about running in the most dangerous race of the year).
To cynically keep suggesting it is a cheap way of detracting from the criticism I have levelled at the individual - it's like Dianne Abbott playing the race card every time her dodgy sums are highlighted. |
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Gazo your clearly have never been to the opening three days of the Cheltenham Festival or the two days of the Dublin festival.
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Gigginstown have 14 of the top 40 entered for the Irish equilalent, to be honest he has so many of a similar type ie not quite good enough for grade1 though almost automatic top weight in a non graded handicap,where can he go with them?
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^^^ why none in the Scottish National? Not a solitary entry.
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Have they had runners in the Scottish national in the past ?
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Just checked the last 3 years non in 2018 or 2017 two in 2016
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Trained by Morris and Mullins
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I have no idea why not, fair point, "odd" race imo,it seems to suit certain types.
Can't see any Irish runner though a few were entered, |
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None in 13/14/15 either must be the close proximity to fairyhouse
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Of course it's entirely the owner's prerogative to run where he wishes, but it undermines the suggestion that there are no opportunities other than Aintree and the Irish National when he has none in the Scottish race, and adds to my suspicion he ran so many at Liverpool to prevent others from taking their chance. The fact he then sells two of his perceived weaker runners to a couple of numpties chasing overnight glory reinforces my view - if he's so keen to win the race and is only entering horses he thinks has a chance, why risk parting company with them?
It seems to me that Fairyhouse and Liverpool are the two he's desperate to win (again, I have no problem with that, they'd be my principle targets too if I were an Irishman), but he goes beyond simply running his best chances in these (spurning other suitable races like Ayr) to restrict the opportunities of others. That is the nub of my critique - I think it's unsporting. |
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You could obviously say the same about Magnier and co on the flat.
You probably could about Godolphin if they ever managed to get enough good horses. |
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Portrait King in 2017 Foxy (rated 130), whatever it is with the Scottish Nat(not slagging it as the prizemoney is good) there is little interest by ANY Irish trainer,whereas the Welsh and even Midlands and Eider seems to get a few Ir runners.
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everyone knew don poli and outlander had no chance of winning and thank you very much for the 335k
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if aiden didnt target epsom there would be very few runners each year
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Pa lapsy
Portrait king was trained by Patrick griffin. |
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I think he is a Dub Foxy
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I hadn’t realised that pa lapsy he had two in the race as well
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He had a winner at towceter in October 2017
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Only remembered it because i liked Portrait King,slow as a boat but think he broke his pelvis(?) and managed to come back after having a few years off.
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His last run was at Hexham on the same day penhill won the stayers hurdle the day gigginstown won the first 3 races at Cheltenham but best keep that quiet I wouldn’t won’t to set anybody off regarding been unsportsmanlike.
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I'm sure you'll be along with some more convincing statistics to back up that point shortly foxy.
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Lighten up one nation
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Shush Foxy , he'll be having a heart attack trying to defend that, though to be fair to the lad, he seems to think that if the Giggingstown lot had not run the other outsiders below them in the rating would have finished the course...
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Another irrelevant straw man argument, but at least you've moved on from playing the Irish victimhood card.
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whatever you say cant believe this subject would have been raised if the multiple entry owner had been say trevor hemmings
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I've only addressed that point about 20 times now, but keep making it if it makes you feel better.
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Why you believe that Isleham?
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Can’t
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Firstly the sentence should be "why DO you believe that" and secondly don't understand "cant".
I do believe it because the forum is riddled especially with anti O'leary and Elliot comments and this smacks of this under the thinly disguised thread of not sporting which is out dated in modern sport. Incidently I was born in Devon and live in Surrey so no special affinity to Ireland though I do admire Gigginstown buying the type of jumper I love |