btw if Weatherbys has been supplying banking facilities to an unauthorised investment scheme, they should expect a massive FCA fine.

Arboretum sports another scam that springs to mind

@Equine Flew

The key issue is, members can't withdraw for 12 months reading between the lines and have to give 14 days notice and can withdraw a max of 50K.

Apparently huge sums have been invested.

Apparently one poster on here claims he started with 5K, and is now worth 35K 4 years later, which means this guy hasn't withdrawn anything in 4 years !!! and now requested 7K

Average investments of 100-150K according to the article !

The only way something like this collapses is if everyone wants their money back, say 10 people put in 100K, the bloke tells them all a year later their worth 150K, they all take 10K out, they get paid, and from this confidence they tell 3 mates each to put in 100K, that means round one generated £1m, and round two £3m. All the bloke has paid out is 100K, now if the 10 were to ask for their full 150K I suspect it would be a different scenario all together.

Good post Domino----Didn't realise so many conditions were in place.



Reading between the lines it seems we have a person who is able to make huge fortunes on Betfair but is happy to only keep 35% himself.

If i were to speculate, I guess that he realised the betting was losing and decided to buy horses in the hope that with inside info he could return to profits.

He also wouldn't be able to lay his own horses, or he would have been shut down a while ago and been warned off.

Agreed, however the incoming for the racing club is 500K, not £2m which was the 2018 spend alone.  Added to that the owner has not declared the bha with any details of members of the partnerships (by BHA law you have to, although they are not nominated partners they should be disclosed as non nominated partners).

@Rozelkid

The owner from 20 horses hasn't had a single winner, if using his horses to gamble, please explain to me how he has generated 50% profits PA for his members, please note the racing side of the business has been set up in the last year. Apparently a member on this forum has stated he has been a member for over 4 years, and has made investment. However said member stated he paid in £5000 and 4 years later this is worth £35000 and he has just withdrawn £7000, he didn't confirm whether he had received this or not.

What I find odd is someone makes a 5K investment and doesn't touch it for 4 years.

I would like to know why his investment club is considered SEPARATE to the racing side. You can buy into the racing club as not part of the investment club for a small fee, he acclaims he has had 2500 people do this at £200, despite outlays of over £2m in year one of the racing club, where has the 1.5m shortfall been paid from.

The racing club is very NEW, but none of those investing this 4,3,2 or even 1 year ago were buying into horses, yet apparently there has been a 700% growth of money over a 4 year period.

So lets say he has generated 50% per annum for members.

Year one, like the poster above he say gets 20 people to invest £5000, these people after one year are told their pot is worth £7,500, he has had in £100,000. If each member takes £1000 for argument sake, £20,000 is paid back out, so he has had £80,000 to spare from funds received in year one.

All 20 people tell 3 friends about this amazing investment run by an ex copper, and he also advertises for new blood, suddenly he changes it to minimum investment of £10,000. Suddenly 100 new people send £10,000. That's 120 members, with a combined pay in of £1,100,000. A year later he tells the people who had £6500 in they are worth £11,000 and the £10,000 people they are worth £16,000. These people are impressed, after the year the year one people decide to take another £1000 and year two people take £3000 say, he now withdraws £300,000 for the year two people and a further £20,000 for year one, from the £1,080,000 in the pot, there would still be untouched if not betting or anything £760,000.

Then from this, masses of big hitters come in, now told its £25,000 minimum, he gets in 200 people, £5m generated

And so on into year four.

There will always be traction for those at the bottom, as their funds are the lowest and are a fraction of the income generated.

It was suggested he had nearly 1000 clients with an average of £15000-£30000 portfolio, and acclaims he is generating them 50% PA.

Even on £20,000 membership, that means he is holding £20,000,000 !!!!

How in any way could he made £10,000,000 a year betting to generate these returns, even 1% at £200,000 would be hard to get.

He is yet to have a single horse win, so what punting has he done to make x amount.

Bookmakers and Traders have claimed they don't know of him to be punting large scale but the belief is, he is a losing punter.

Apparently this fund was progressing so well, but last year advertised a new fund, and needing £210,000 for it according to the article. If the fund was doing so well and making x y and z, why would he approach current members for further funding when there should be near £20m in the betting accounts.

If he was winning a fraction of what he has to, to generate these returns he would have been shut down in minutes by bookmakers which leaves only exchanges. If you tried to have a six figure account in Betfair, they would want to see proof of income, source of funds and everything under KYC. Betfair would be able to see instantly it's a collective investment fund and suspend his account.

This isn't the account of a premiership footballer on £200,000 a week who could justify a large funded account, this is a self employed ex copper.

The Daily Mail didn't give their source away, but knew enough about it to suggest that they set up the guy in charge as a potential investor to get the details they have been given. The case portfolio they put up more than suggests they have people on the investment side. PS if you can't withdraw for a year, that's a lot of 100Ks invested keeping the small people sweet before a larger investor could even request any of their funds back.

Studying Wikipedia for extradition treaty details I would imagine.

@Rozelkid

I appreciate your concerns, however I would trust a newspaper written piece which stated a lot of facts, over the complete silence of the guy in question, he didn't want to speak to the press, has not even returned emails to his clients and has ignored other media approaches. If innocent and doing nothing untoward he wouldn't be this silent over allegations.

I personally have a feeling you're too close if you get me. The things you alluded to make no sense at all, when I put a question to you, you simply ignored it. People who answer questions with a question or a direction turning statement always have something to hide in my book.

talking of the media and john best …

layezy racing have a social & media officer, I don't think she's said very much since this kicked off

she was formally employed by john best for 10 years

anyone know why their runner today was supposedly declared but didn't appear on the race card and was not listed as balloted out or nr before the abandonment?

admire you for your honesty posy, looking back did you not think it's too good to be true or was it spare cash and you didn't analyse the risk?

sorry bud, it happens and one of the angles is often that if these legit people are involved then it must be ok for me, it's part of the lure I guess?



cherries still have advertising bits floating around the net, he even put in there "is this a pyramid scheme?" as one of the Q&As, some front!

RozelKid
Gambling/sports betting syndicates may not need to be regulated by the Gambling Commission or FCA but this scheme is not a gambling syndicate. In a gambling syndicate resources and responsibilities are pooled and you would know in the vast majority of cases what you were betting on and why.
This is a collective investment whereby you give your money to someone who "invests" it on your behalf and you have no control or idea what the man in charge bets it on.
The person running such an investment should be a licensed deposit taker and be regulated by the FCA.

Salmon,  his usual answer is "who knows".

@Posy

Cherries and Wining Express were ponzi's

You were lucky to get anything back. My FIL lost £100,000 with Bradbury firstly in Cherries and then with Winning Express, Graham got him to invest at Cheltenham the day Denman ran against Kauto Star and they had a box. My LIW got small payments here and there but it was 100% a scam. My FIL was offered to move his investment with Winning Express when Cherries got shut down by the FCA. he agreed, but he foolishly believed Graham and his mate Darren who was another con man and he topped his fund up. Bradbury had around 100K off my father in law and after Winning Express was exposed as a Ponzi Graham disappeared. He died of a heart attack in November 2017, and my FIW tried to get answers from Darren and also the lady who always fronted the office. Graham was potless in the end, and it was all a massive Ponzi, he was banned from being a director after Cherries and amazingly didn't go to prison. He then ran Winning Express but used Darren as a front, but it was just a Ponzi. My FIW lost around 100K and had it admitted to him there was no money and most of the money in Cherries was moved into Wining Express that was there from offshore accounts. But he had lost over £2m in Cherries and proceeded to lose that x 5 with Winning Express before he was exposed.

You were very lucky to get money out, my FIL met up with a lot of people that lost huge amounts of money, they were nowhere near as lucky as you.

First 15 seconds......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRTkCHE1sS4