GREY HORSE APPRECIATION THREAD

Doubt if anyone noticed blackbarn, not much difference between Hetero and ****!

George - I wasnt being critical   I was merely adding meat to your bones

Not too bad blackbarn. Hope you are well and winning!

Stalbridge Colonist beat Arkle by half a length when receiving a massive 35lb from Himself and SC was no slouch himself!

You have me beat Blackbarn, what was the other Grey that beat him? Was Dormant a grey?

All of above and I will add

Mystiko
Suny Bay

Tagalie

Jul 22, 2018 -- 12:33PM, salmon spray wrote:

Flying Wild btw.

For themightymac

mm - the other grey was Flying Wild, and Salmon got it earlier (Well done SS!!).  I think that FW was the only horse to beat Arkle TWICE.

Sorry Salmon, I would have lauded you earlier but been watering me 'erbs.

There;'s no answer to that.

remember 1 grey I laid at big odds for the champion hurdle as the guy on crimewatch used to say don't have nightmares  but I still do.
kribensis.
Ronnie.

Paris House should've been mentioned before now apologies if I've missed him.

The Tetrarch.
I suspect if not all,then the large majority of the horses in this thread have him as their grey gene carrier.

Can't beat some grey just because they don't match the dominant colour, many morons call them all sorts of names

Around a similar time to the wonderful RAFFINGORA -

- was Bill Marshall's other multiple winning Grey - MY SWANEE
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Also in the 70s was  the admirable  Grey Stayer - KNOCKROE

Grey Desire , a sprinter from the 80's . 2 decent chasers I recall ; The Grey Monk and The Listener .

Owen's Sedge.

Grey buck

Grey  sombrero

Abacus grey

Titus oats

Titus Oates wasn't a grey
Hth.

Strawberrydaiquiri

Aljabr wasn't bad in his short career won Group 1's at 2,3 and 4.

Cheers salmon. Flying Wild.

The Tetrarch was some machine by all accounts. His nickname was The Spotted Wonder. Trained by Atty Persse I think.

Surprised no one has mentioned The Grey Bomber. I had him at huge odds for the Triumph. Sad ending caused by a freak accident.

Was Burns a grey? Jonjo used to ride it Flat and Jumps.

blackbarn - Rainlough also beat Arkle twice (and was the only other horse to do so). But it was in handicap hurdles, and Arkle was only 5yo (though Rainlough was giving Arkle the best part of 2 stone, although 10yo Fortria was trying to give Rainlough 11 lb in one of those races). Rainlough won the Irish Champion Hurdle that year (1962).

I'v checked quite a number of horses on this thread and they are all descendants of The Tetrarch with one exception which funnily enough is Desert Orchid. There may be others as I haven't ( and won't ) check all of them. Roselier is descended from him which accounts for quite a few of the jumpers. What I didn't do was make sure the grey gene came from him. It would be possible of course for the horse to have The Tetrarch as an ancestor but get its greyness from somewhere else.

Dom Alco, the sire of Neptune Collognes, seems to get his share of greys, which perhaps is not surprising given he was grey himself!

Dom Alco is another one who DOESN'T trace back to The Tetrarch.

Copied from elsewhere!
There was once another grey, Knockroe. As a three-year-old, in 1971, Knockroe was galloped over six furlongs, at level weights, with the year-older Apollo Nine, who won that season's Stewards' Cup carrying 9st 5lb. Knockroe beat Apollo Nine out of sight. Not bad for a stayer.

When he wanted to, Knockroe, who won four Group races in 1972, could do pretty much anything, but he didn't always want to. In the mood, Knockroe would come

nerve-rackingly late and wide, scything down his opponents with a fine turn of foot.

When Mahmoud's record over the Derby course, set in 1936, was finally broken, in 1973, it was Knockroe who broke it, on the bridle, easing down. Trainer Peter Nelson remembered the vet coming up to him afterwards and saying: "I'm sorry, Major Nelson, but I'm going to have to check your horse again." The vet couldn't believe that Knockroe's heartbeat could be so slow. "I knew the reason," Nelson told me, "Knockroe hadn't really exerted himself."

It is believed that every grey thoroughbred can have its lineage traced back to one source – the grey eminence, so to speak. This great ancestor is Alcock's Arabian, probably born in Britain in the first years of the 18th century and also known as Pelham Grey Arabian or Bloody Buttocks. His influence was spread largely through the exploits of his son Crab, three times champion sire, and thence sideways through the pedigrees of greys up to the present day.

The influence of the outstanding The Tetrarch proved crucial for grey horses at a time when their numbers were dwindling. Known as The Spotted Wonder for his dramatically dappled coat and restricted to just seven unbeaten outings at two, The Tetrarch sired only 130 foals but he figures in the pedigrees of very many champions via his daughter Mumtaz Mahal's grandsons Nasrullah and Mahmoud, whose granddaughter Natalma produced the prepotent overlord of bloodstock Northern Dancer.

Only four greys have won the Derby, and none since Airborne in 1946. Just three greys have won the Grand National, the most recent being Neptune Collonges in 2012. Conversely, eight greys have won the Kentucky Derby and all since 1954, with the most notable being great champion Spectacular Bid in 1979 and filly Winning Colors nine years later.

I assumed most of the famous greys would have come from Mumtaz Mahal. Some do but a number come from a son of his called Tetratema (or something close to that ).

Son of The Tetrarch that is.

I hadn't thought of Tetratema for years - from memory (well memory of what I read), I think he was a great sire of broodmares. It is not surprising that Tetra had a big impact almost akin to Mumtaz Mahal, given she was a mare, which of course makes it equally remarkable that she had such an impact.

There could easily be a lot more greys than there are. Native Dancer rather than Northern Dancer is arguably the most influential stallion of the latter half of the C20 as he is not only Northern Dancer's maternal grandsire but also the progenitor,through the male line,of the Mr Prospector line,which in the US is probably now more important than the Northern Dancer lot. Native Dancer was a grey,which he got through his female line from Roi Herode,The Tetrarch's sire. Not many of his better progeny happened to be grey however.

When Native Dancer is mentioned, I immediately think of his son Dancers Image who was disqualified in Kentucky Derby. He was a grey. Only other one which I can think of is Shenanigans the dam of the famous Ruffian. Native Dancer was also the great grand dad of National winner West Tip who was by his son Gala Performance.

Sea Bird's sire Dan Cupid was either a son or grandson of his in the male line. That line carried on for some decades but I think may now be gone.

Dan Cupid was also son of Native Dancer.

Who owned Dan Cupid salmon? Can you remember?

Choctaw - shocking omission !

Re Dan Cupid - Ternynck got breeders bonuses totalling £230k for Sea Birds five wins in 1965 which suggests he owned Dan Cupid, or the dam.  The former seems more likely as Sea Bird's dam Sicalade was eventually sold for the equiv of £100 to a provincial butcher and destroyed.

That is rather sad blackbarn. Did she produce any other decent offspring?

No. Sea Bird was her second foal. Her first foal Statu Quo who never ran. Her foal after SB was Syncom whose record I do not have. They were her only three foals and had health issues with each birth (Circulation) which led to her demiseucse had llanever ranqUO

apologies for putting up a horse so inferior to all the above but Aislabie gave me great memories and the wee grey soldier will always have a place in my heart

which led to her demise. Ignore the serbo-croat at the end

Sea Bird was a machine. Some say the best ever.

I remember Aislabie dealer, gutsy horse. Any more info on him?

did a tendon at market rasen on last run.had nearly a year off. was brought back gently into training and all looked well but scan showed the injury was still there. back in a field for another year. if that doesnt work he will be found a good home. as far as i know he is still at Marks.

Thanks Dealer, I was wondering where he had went. I hope they can find him a good home.

There are a few shocking omissions. I'll tell you later.

Didn't The Bonzo Dog Doodah Band own a horse called Old Grey Bucket ? Trainer & Jockey combo escapes me .........

Dan Cupid was owned by Gertrude Widener (wife of Peter Arrell Brown Widener II - or PAB 2 for short). She was born Gertrude Douglas, married first Frederick Peabody, divorced him and then married PAB2. The latter died in 1948, and she inherited his estate. She had homes in New York and Paris, but as Dan Cupid was trained, like Sea-Bird, by Etienne Pollet, she was down on racecards as Mme P.A.B.Widener. She died in 1971.

Have to mention the one grey horse I had a quarter share in, even if he was pretty useless. Lift High. Trained by D R Tucker, somewhere near Wellington, many, many years ago.

Colonist II
Stalbridge Colonist
A chestnut Grey Of Falloden

I was about 12 or 13 when I came across Grey of Falloden and couldn't understand the name.   
I is better eddicatted nough.

for different reasons Flockton Grey

Surprised no one has mentioned Bristol De Mai who is currently in training

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Simonsig another shocking omission

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Hula Dancer was a grey filly by Native Dancer,who,like Dan Cupid,was owned by Mme Widener. She won the 100Gns and Champion Stakes in 1963. I remember her reasonably well and she was better than most 1000 Gns winners since imo. Unfortunately she was a major disappointment as a broodmare.

THE SPOTTED WONDER

for SS

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and Native Dancer

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Dom Samourai

Surprised The Grey Gatsby has not been mentioned

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Russe Blanc the only horse to be registered "White" with Weatherbys

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John Wootton`s famous painting of the Duke of Hamilton`s outstanding colt Victorious which was purchased by the Mellon family

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The Tetrarch
Airborne

TEETON MILL
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SUNY BAY
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mac - re Suny Bay - Is that Charlie Brooks in the flashing yellow raincoat?.

Yes, it sure is blackbarn. And Bradley on board of course.

HANSEN
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for Makybe Diva the Australian great SUBZERO
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from my early punting years JELLABY, top sprinter usually ridden by what my dad called Saturday jock brian taylor

Nice one 1stTP - will always be remembered for standing in a hole with the Lockinge at his mercy. Carried the famous colours of Essa Al Khalifa, I think?

The great Stalbridge Colonist beating Arkle in the 66 Hennessy receiving 35lb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxY1-LJrpaU

At The Races video Top 5 Greys, Dessie doesn`t make the five

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY4R_JPV5AI

Bruni wins the Leger. What a horse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH0MzEWPjs0

think another of my fav early horses was grey,used to run a lot up narrth before moving to Geoff lewis I think, GUNNER B, remember its battles with  J CALVERT trained ,fast finisher MOVE OFF, think they ran in redcars zetland gold cup when it was considered a prestige race, memory might be playing tricks and it might not have even been a grey,anyone remember , ?

Gunner B was a Chestnut mate. George Toft trained it up North and went to Hern. Here is the Eclipse it won and your favourite Grey Jellaby is in the race

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYP_AjIZd9c

Gunner B was a chestnut, went from George Toft to Henry Cecil, and the rest is history as they say!

told ye the memory,s gone,

1sttp, Gunner B was a chestnut and his early career was spent with Geoff Toft, in later life he was transferred to Henry Cecil, won the Andy Capp H'cap at Redcar when with Toft as a 3yo was then stepped up into Pattern races where he enjoyed further success for both Toft and later Cecil

cant picture George toft did he get an offer he couldn't refuse or was it taken away from him

They are not Greys but here is a great finish between Busted and Great Nephew for the Eclipse. Strange coincidence is that their two sons Grundy and Bustino would fight out a similar finish in what was deemed the Race Of The Century

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvpVSku9pxk&t=0s&index=2&list=PLfn5x2SD03q6_Tmple6byRsHIkmX3zTrV

That'll be Hernry Cecil will it, Mac?

1st Time Poster - Re Gunner B and Toft - Henry's versions was that it was the owners decision based on the horse needing a "change of environment", having hung "ominously" when winning an Amateur's race at Newmarket.  It seems that Toft was ok with the move, as he had little with which to work him. Given the races he won in 78 that was not entirely surprising.

You are right blackbarn, I was getting mixed up with Ela Mana Mou

cheers

Aww, thanks Mighty Mac. It's Subzero's 30th birthday on Sunday
.
https://m.facebook.com/Subzero1988/

You are welcome! 30th Birthday Where have all the years gone? Great to know Subzero is still with us! Happy Birthday on Sunday to Subzero!

SMAD PLACE
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SILVER PATRIARCH AT STUD
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MONETS GARDEN
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PETITE MOUCHOIR
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PETITE ETOILE
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Bruni was a very likeable horse,but I had mixed feelings about him as Brian Taylor had been my hero since I was 13 ( apart from Geoff Boycott obviously ). At the time he was stable jockey to Ryan Price but was jocked off for Lester due to the owner ( who was lucky not to be sharing a cell with Piggott a few years later )
He's dead Bf. Don't worry.

Brian Taylor was one of my favourite jockeys of the period along with John Gorton the South African who rode for Bruce Hobbs. Tony Murray rode Bruni in Leger I think, correct me if I`m wrong, but Lester was usually associated with him. Did Brian Taylor ever ride Bruni SS?

I don't remember tbh.
Taylor wasn't Price's jockey for long so may not have been associated with the stable when Bruni was 3.

It did just linger in the back of my mind that Murray was Price's retained jockey at one point and Jockeypedia says he was. I think Taylor took over the year following his Leger win but got jocked-off Bruni by Charles St George rather than Price. Oddly Taylor was supposedly Lester's best m8 in the dressing room. ( Can't imagine there was much competition.)
The Price job was a bit of a jinx. Taylor of course was killed in Hong Kong a few years later and Murray committed suicide at fortyish. Then there was Fred Winter's accident/stroke.

Murray rode Bruni during his 3yo career, except in the Derby, where Price had 4 runners, and Murray was on Anne's Pretender, the stable number 1 (who finished 4th). Price didn't want to run Bruni in the race, as he always considered the horse a Leger horse, and woudn't like the fast ground at Epsom, but the owners (Charles St George and Peter Richards) wanted him to run and Piggott to ride him, which is what happened. The horse was sore afterwards, and didn't run again until late August.

ONE MAN
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ROOSTER BOOSTER
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DAYLAMI
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KRIBENSIS
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There was one back in 1923 , can't recall the name , that had a football match named after it ............. and a large number of public houses !

The horse was called Billie, the jockey PC Storey

1923 - "Although around 900 spectators were treated for slight injuries,[37] only 22 were taken to hospital and ten of those were quickly discharged. Two policemen were also injured during the match.[38] The chaotic scenes at the match prompted discussion in the House of Commons, where Home Secretary William Bridgeman paid tribute to the actions of the police and the general behaviour of the crowd. During the debate Oswald Mosley was chastised by the Speaker of the House for characterising the fans present at the stadium as hooligans.[39] Bridgeman was asked to consider opening a public inquiry,[40] but ultimately concluded that the police had dealt successfully with the incident, and that he was happy for the stadium authorities and the police to decide on a plan to prevent similar events from happening again.[38]

Not the only politician to jump to conclusions at a FA Cup Football match.

By the way the PC was Scorey not Storey

Thank you for that , appreciated