Saxon declared for the Eclipse

What was that Good Thing for Today dom?

Ryan will ride surely......if he gets beat again his value will plummet even further

They seem to be desperate the way this campaign with the great white hope is going. After he gets stuffed on Saturday expect a further drop in trip the following weekend for the July Cup..............

Massar is better than Roaring Lion,not much to chose between Massar and Saxon Warrior, AOB is always confounding the punters,that the conundrum

tangle...........why are you ruling out RL............surely this is more his trip...............looked to be going well 2f in the derby...........wouldn't be ready to dismiss him

Firm ground will undo him again.

looks a cracking race now

would be surprised which one of the 3 won..........hope coolmore don't mess about with the pace like they did in the irish derby.....

won't beat masar

I backed SW in the Guineas, the Epsom Derby and the Irish Derby. Horse owes me nothing but I wouldn't back it ever again. Only my opinion but seems to be a bit of a goat. ie. reluctant to go by horses close by whereas it had no company in the Guineas.


For any newbie looking in Sea Pigeon had the same attitude until it was ridden properly by Francome. (Champion Hurdle)

Stewy,Aiden has made many punters look like a goats

think its a tough race to be dogmatic.....think you can make a decent case for all 3..............race to watch for win purpose but was thinking of using the race for my placepot banker............which of the 3 is the safer  place banker??

masar

It never went past the 1st 2nd in the Irish Derby because of the ground, Look at both horses action then look at SW, They loved the firm ground, He hits it hard = wants some cut.
Big top heavy horse feeling every stride, Once the weather eases off I'll start following him again.
Just my opinion but am surprised no one has mentioned this anywhere...So maybe I'm wrong.

sweet.........it will be masar or RL probably because they will be fresher......edging towards RL

gut.........they made sure it wasn't a fast paced irish derby to suit SW..........so your ground theory could be spot on

Then again gutfeeling, maybe you are spot on.

I could be...or not

Just all 3 starts last season he faced ground with some ease in it and looked straight as a dye everytime, This season it's been good or good to firm and for me he's not handled any race that well, Yes he won the Guineas but twice came off a true line once taking the lead, Was that the rising ground so he rolled a little or feeling the surface as it'd be quickest at the highest point of the straight mile which is the final furlong.

Food for thought at least.

Good luck today chaps.

If the reason for his lacklustre performance in the Irish Derby was the ground (good to firm) I wonder why connections had been so keen to run him here and so soon after last weekend's exertion. It could well be the firmish ground, but I'd side with connections, and instead think it was more likely the distance that over-stretched him; none of these uncertainties if only AOB runs his Guineas winners in one of the Derby Trials prior to Epsom.

I think he'll run well, whether he wins tomorrow will hinge on the effect of the Irish Derby had had on him, and off course the expected "heat" similar to The Curragh, I think.

Cracking race in prospect as 1m 2f seems to be the ideal distance for all 3

Cracking race indeed, Happily could gatecrash the colts given her Lagardere victory especially if Sax runs below his Guineas form.

Cliffs I'm sure will be the sacrificial lamb.

Yep, almost a certainty Cliffs would be doing the donkey work for Sax and Happily on saturday; he assumed that role for Churchill in the Juddmonte last year.

Masar was a good winner in the Derby, but 7/4 is extremely short for beating horses that were non stayers in the Derby eg Roaring Lion, Sax and Hazapour; Dee Ex Bee the runner-up had also been beaten by Kew Gardens, Crossed Baton and Young Rascal prior, and was thumped in the Irish Derby.

Masar too had been beaten by Happily over 8f in the Lagardere, and Sax in the 2000G; this race is over 10f, and 7/4 is way too short, in my opinion.

Agreed with price of Masar price wise shouldnt be much between all 3.    9/4    5/2   11/4 would be nearer mark over this trip
Saxon Warrior looked unbeatable in guineas over a Mile with a step up 2 furlongs would be ideal.
Roaring Lion looked like 1m 2 was right up his street in Dante and seemed to confirm that in Derby
Masar looked great over 1 m4 in Derby.

think it would be a massive shock if one of those 3 didn't win but I think its impossible to nail your colours to one of them

Happily wouldnt be massive shock beat Masar comfortably in lagadare altho she would appear to be better suited with some give.

At the weights I favour the older horses and assuming 8 runners last year's Derby winner each way is a huge price at 33/1.

@Posy

Wings of Eagles is not in the race ?

fcuk what was i thinking !

I've backed Cliffs ew thinking for some reason he won the Derby last year...a senior moment.

He was a fortuitous 2nd, but 2nd nonetheless.

Fortuitous..., I like that. Similarly Sharastani (Dancing Brave) , Prime Minister May (David Cameron), Russia (Spain), Big Orange (OoSG), etc.

I cannot back Masar for the price, and 10f; Saxon Warrior would be the one but for his run last weekend (backed at 8/1 antepost). Roaring Lion would be the most likely winner at this trip, I believe, but the value has to be Happily - a line thro' Masar -  if the good to firm ground is not an inconvenience.

A great looking race for horse racing enthusiasts, hope it delivers a 3-way photo finish prior to the England game.

I was at Sandown in 1968 to see the Eclipse and it is still one of the greatest races I've ever seen. The official 123 was Royal Palace,Taj Dewan,Sir Ivor.

Masar non runner

Ya, but no news as yet why?

Heat in a leg

Oh dear, how unfortunate for Godolphin. On the other hand the connections of Sax have played their card well, and lucky.

posy
Date Joined:    18 Oct 03
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06 Jul 18 14:58 Joined: 18 Oct 03 | Topic/replies: 9,572 | Blogger: posy's blog
I was at Sandown in 1968 to see the Eclipse and it is still one of the greatest races I've ever seen. The official 123 was Royal Palace,Taj Dewan,Sir Ivor.



Never knew about that particular race posy but Piggott says Sir Ivor was the best he had ridden.

I always thought that Royal Palace was one of the most underrated horses I had seen.
Hardly ever gets mentioned and his record was there for all to see.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Palace_(horse)

Great horse Sparrow. I saw him at The National Stud in 1990 where he saw out his retirement.

I was always a fan of the Murless stable and Royal Palace was a great favourite of mine. He didn't too bad at stud either.

Just sent you a PM Sparrow.

Ok Johnny. I will have to switch forums to read it.

Anyone have a feeling SW might be a NR, to try and gift Happily a 3yo Grp 1 to enhance her stud value ?

are ya sticking or twisting doms ??

@Smirnoff

For me he didn't run like a non stayer at the Curragh, he just didn't look good enough for me.

I don't think he is much different to Roaring Lion, he wasn't 100% at Epsom and ran better in Ireland but to have such a strong race 7 days ago, I couldn't back him tomorrow.

For me unless Cliffs Of Moher plays the sacrificial lamb, I would not be surprised to see Forest Ranger run a big race. He would definitely interest me in the 3/4 horse place markets on here, if Betfair put them up !

‘Anyone have a feeling SW might be a NR, to try and gift Happily a 3yo Grp 1 to enhance her stud value?’

Dom, what on earth are you on about? I’ve never seen a more ridiculous post in the history of social media. How could that enhance her value in any way when Coolmore already own her and her sire. She’s already priceless and if she won five G1s this season it wouldn’t increase her value one cent. It’s irrelevant what she does in her career tomorrow, or going forwards because she will never come up for sale.

Reply sent Johnny.

@Johnny

A grp 1 win against the colts as a 3yo over 10f would definitely increase her profile and value, she is currently yet to win at 3, and win beyond a mile, I am amazed you don't think a grp 1 win against the colts and elders over a middle distance tomorrow wouldn't increase her stud value.

Dom, you clearly haven’t got a clue, sorry. Read my lips: she will never come up for sale so value doesn’t come into it. She’s already a G1 juvenile by the world’s greatest sire and is priceless. I don’t want to be indelicate but stick to something you know about rather than spouting nonsense.

doms i aint a troll as many old timers on here will testify to but i will wear the badge wiv pride .

i KNOW you are clued up as to whats going on and you cud be a major asset to this place but you need a style management makeover cos the present presentation aint working

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6UAYGxiRwU

its a tough crowd on here

@Johnny

She may not come up for sale no, but her OFFSPRING may or her half brothers and sisters !! or Full brothers and sisters for that matter.

@Fozzybear

At Epsom he ran to 113 for me, Roaring Lion 117

He ran to 124 in the Guineas.

He ran 11lb below his Guineas effort in the Derby.

At the Curragh he ran to 119 for me, the winner ran 120.

Masar ran 122 in the Derby, so for me Masar would have still won the Irish Derby, but only by 1/2L.

Sweet Jesus, Dom, you’re embarrassing yourself now and I’d encourage you to stop. If she has any offspring then Coolmore would own them in their entirety. They will not come up for sale either. And Coolmore wouldn’t care less about the performance of her half-brothers or sisters if they don’t own them.

@Johnny

No it's you who is embarrassing yourself, Coolmore own the Dam You'resothrilling, so YES they would care about her half brothers and sisters and so on.

Also of the horses Coolmore breed each year, they sell a number as foals and yearlings, they don't keep everything. They LIKE to spread their pedigree's about.

So far you'resothrilling hasn't produced a progeny that HAS WON A GROUP 1 OVER 10F OR FURTHER , so having her produce a Group 1 winning 3yo filly over 10f increases the reputation of the pedigree and as a full sister to Gleneagles a stallion who has had 64 outside of Coolmore coverings this year, they definitely want his full sister to prove the family can be effective at the highest level over 10f or further.

Roundabout yes.

So let’s get this straight then Dom, it’s important to win over 10f? We agreed on that?

If they want to sell Gleneagles as a stallion who COULD produce Classic winners and attract outside 10-12f mares, Happily winning a 10f Group 1 will no hinder him.

All studs want their horses to win at trips beyond a mile as there is more money in there for them.

The reality is, the 3yo division isn't strong, but the older horses in this years race aren't great, this is a very good opportunity for either Happily or SW.

However with Alpha Centauri and Laurens, Happily may struggle against the Fillies, and may have a better opportunity to win that group one over further than a mile tomorrow.

Saxon Warrior has shown enough to suggest one will come his way, and they could happily wait with him, if you excuse the pun.

@Fozzybear

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. You asked me a question and I answered it.

Let’s assume we do. So you think they’d pull Saxon Warrior out to enhance the value of Gleneagles at the expense of getting a 10 furlong, much-needed win into the former whose reputation and stud value are on a downward spiral? I despair.

I believe Saxon Warrior would find it easier to win a Group 1, over 10f + than Happily, so on this occasion I believe they will. I actually think Saxon Warrior will stay in training next year. I would not be surprised if they look to the Japan Cup for him and the Hong Kong Vase before taking him to Dubai in the Winter.

Surely there is far more value in re-establishing Saxon Warriors reputation and increase value who can generate  100 plus offspring per year compared with happilys 1 who the lads will be keen to keep(as Johnny stated)in the early stages of her stud career surely.

Dom you talk of 1 with great experience in the industry but some posts beggar belief and give the impression you are just learning the game.

hawair mouse give me yours..... ive got 6 packets of golden wonder salt n vinegar that i need to gobble b4 1st August 

# wet behind the ears

# wet behind the ears

@Geoff M

Gleneagles first book was not strong, he has not been popular with his second booking, HAPPILY boosting the stamina side of the Family, WILL help with his 3rd booking of mares. Gleneagles is already a Stallion ! Who Coolmore want to be a success, Saxon Warrior won't be going to stud for at least 18 months yet, by that time the opportunities to prove the Gleneagles bloodline can be further than a mile, may have all but disappeared unless Happily wins one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ed5xP_9FoY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ed5xP_9FoY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ed5xP_9FoY

.

Dom  I tell yer what will have you an even money bet Saxon runs then? and im betting someone who has inside info on the stable.

Dom  I tell yer what will have you an even money bet Saxon runs then? and im betting someone who has inside info on the stable.

stewarty b 05 Jul 18 13:11 Joined: 02 Aug 02 | Topic/replies: 16,857 | Blogger: stewarty b's blog
I backed SW in the Guineas, the Epsom Derby and the Irish Derby. Horse owes me nothing but I wouldn't back it ever again. Only my opinion but seems to be a bit of a goat. ie. reluctant to go by horses close by whereas it had no company in the Guineas.



I still believe this beast is a goat. That said I think Hawkbill is a huge price. I said I wouldn't back it again but to me it's still the class beast in the field imo. 9/4 could be decent with Hawkbill as a saver. g/l if getting involved.

://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ed5xP_9FoY

Geoff, I've NOT SAID he won't run, but I just said earlier, now Masar not running, it would NOT surprise me if they decided not to run to benefit one of their other horses. It wouldn't be the first time they've pulled a horse out a race, so another one of theirs can win.

Not in a Million years ffs dom.

What next for Saxon Warrior ?

Irish Champion stakes then Arc.

Any 9f Gr.1s around ?

Happily used as a spoiler to send Roaring Lion wide ,and Dom thinks Saxon may have been a non runner to favour the filly .

Inside info fuddling his thinking.

One thing is for sure Sax will not run over 12f ever again. Whether he next runs over 8f (Sussex) or 10f (Juddmonte) is debatable, but the latter for me, I believe.

He ran a good race considering so soon after the Irish Derby last weekend; he was looked after by Donnacha, I believe.

Don't see how Saxon Warrior reverses the form in the Juddmonte personally - Roaring Lion only winner coming from off the pace all day and put up his best performance visually at least over CD at York.

Where will he run next? He was going the best and easily 2f out. The Sussex could be a penalty kick (Without Parole?); Juddmonte is more competitive. But he ran a blinder today so soon after last weekend.