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frankie
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i was thinking that he assumed he was sitting on a suzuki myself
you are clowns horse was never travelling. needs a flat track to show his best form
Never a bad ride, indeed if he did not switch would not have won.
Horse hated that track..looked in trouble well before t corner
Nothing wrong with the ride. He was having to push him along from an early stage.
You're clueless. Within 50 yards Frankie's horse was not going forwards, he was niggling after 3f and he was never going a yard and was niggling 5f out. Horse wasn't just not in love with the track, he was never going, his class saw him through. Ryan Moore would have accepted 2nd 1f out, that's the difference in Ryan to Frankie, around Epsom Frankie is the best jockey there is. He has given him an outstanding ride to get a horse who clearly wasn't 100% to win.
Poor Ride De Sousa ..bag the rail all over ....no i will leave a gap come on frankie !!! Franny Norton would of won salouen
Nope. Horse was never going. De Sousa clinched the race for the winner giving him the rail run.
Frankie was not at fault. Horse done well to win. Never comfortable on the track and couldn`t lay up despite Frankie`s urging. Only a great horse could win like that. You will see a different horse and a great one at Ascot.
ok so the same horses same track same conditions in 2 weeks - will Frankie be holding him up in last place?
Good ride agree with howard and domino14 above
I agree with Gerald who agrees with howard and domino who seem to agree with me 
ok so for those who feel it was great ride - can someone answer me what price they would make him for same race condition, horses and course in 2 weeks time?
Racing6699
You would still make him favourite, but any one could see the horse was never happy today.
You would still make him favourite, but any one could see the horse was never happy today.
Did Gosden not say those following behind were too far behind given the tacky ground? Also, Cracksman did not ome down the hill too well either. No doubt a different horse will turn-up in the King George VI and QE2 Stake at Ascot; 6/4 from 4/7, bookies being generous for once, I hope.
Why was Dettori holing the horse up though when it is arguably better at 12f than 10f?
Also a horse with a 66% win rate at Epsom but doesn't like the track?
Also a horse with a 66% win rate at Epsom but doesn't like the track?
@Impossible123 I would be amazed if Cracksman ran in the QE2 , he surely wouldn't be sharp enough for a mile.
@ima_mazed66
I think this is where the problem of race analysis comes in. People suggest Frankie held the horse up yesterday. I invite you to watch the whole replay. Frankie jumps well on the horse and you see him try and take a forward position but for whatever reason, the horse just isn't striding forwards. After 50 yards Frankie is changing his hands and even gave the horse a slap up the neck. The horse was just very slow to find his stride and clearly was not happy on an undulating track. With this Frankie allowed the horse to slot in, to try and get him balanced and get into a rhythm. From riding I can tell you if a horse isn't really striding out or going forward the worse thing you can do is rush it into it's stride and make it work hard, as if the horse suddenly finds it's stride, you may have got the horse over racing which on a downhill track is a recipe for disaster.
After about 3f, Cracksman still didn't look happy to me, he was sitting 5th and even being pressed by the last horse, and Dettori again appeared to be changing his hands, giving him a squeeze and asking his horse to find his stride, but the horse wasn't responding.
Coming down the hill, the horse changes his legs 4-5 times and the race is quickening up, Frankie has no choice but to tart to sternly ask his mount to progress despite being very much unbalanced, the horses natural ability see's him move into a closing 3rd, but he was making hard work of an average field and a field where arguably the two form horses were beaten before Tattenham corner and he effectively didn't have strong competition. As they straighten off the bend, Frankie looks like he is going to make a run up the centre of the track to challenge the leader but his progress looks laboured and the horse is leaning in. Fortunately for him, he is able to switch the horse and get him to change leads and grab the rail, immediately when he has done this, he stops hanging and finds his momentum up the hill and gradually draws in the leader. Sadly for SDS he only realises Dettori is on the rail when he's got to his quarters and by then it's too late to close the door, if you look at SDS just over 1f out he steals a peak and sees Frankie pushing and scrubbing to his outside, he doesn't expect Dettori to switch his mount, and therefore he doesn't see the need to allow his horse to go all the way over to the rail, he has about 1.5L on Dettori at the time, and Cracksman looks laboured in his run. It's only when it's too late for SDS to do anything about it, does he see Frankie has got the rail and his horse is gaining slowly, but enough to wear down SDS's mount.
Frankie didn't ride the horse with over confidence in a hold up role, the horse was at no stage going forwards for him, until around 2.5f out when he started to hit rising ground and the camber subsided. The horses natural ability or the fact he was vastly the most superior horse in the race is what kept him from being tailed off and well beaten before the hill came into play. Dettori gave him a sensible and brilliant ride to win. Many jockeys would have accepted defeat, but Dettori gave the horse every chance to get balanced and because he rides the horse so well, eventually got a tune out of the horse.
You make a point about the horse having a 66% strike rate but not liking the track, why is this a negative thing ? The horse is a proven solid 125-130 horse, arguably the best middle distance horse in training, when he won the Blue Ribband he only got up by a short head to beat horses 20-30lb his inferior, and again that day he struggled on the track and his class brought him through. He ran better in the Derby but he found himself in amongst horses and lost his position coming down the hill, I think the faster ground also helped him, as yesterday was very gluey ground which makes it hard to pick up on, even harder when your mount isn't travelling comfortably. In the Derby he lost his position down the hill and stayed on up it, but not quick enough to win. He has shown since the Derby he was the best horse to run in the race, but on good ground in the Derby he only ran to 115, some 10-15lb lower than his optimum ability.
Yesterday is a very hard race to rate, but for all the second may have improved, he is a fully exposed 110 horse, and Cracksman needed every inch of the track to win. It is plausible to accept the second may have run a career best of 112 / 113, but that brings Cracksman in around 114, which is still 10-15lb worse than his best form, but it also means you have to accept he has run within 1lb of his Derby 3rd. I personally don't see that. The 4th, 5th and 6th have run no race, so you have to strike off their runs, none of them have run anywhere there ability. The 3rd ran well but it's hard pressed to say he's run to his 117 mark and he looked slow just staying on. In Europe the tracks are often undulating so the track hasn't bothered him. I think the second has to have run to about 108/110 and for all its looked like a career best for the horse, I'm not convinced he has run any better than he has before, but his love of the track, position in the race and disappointment of the majority of his rivals has opened the door for him to run very well. I'm going to say 110 and therefore Cracksman has run 112. Now my official figures haven't updated yet and they may score the race higher, but I struggle to see how they could. The time was not impressive and the visual effects of the race suggest more under performed than over performed.
So in three runs at Epsom Cracksman has run 103, 115 and 112. A horse who ran to 123 in the Irish Derby, 125 in the Great Voltigeur, 130 in the Champion Stakes and 127 in the Prix Ganay, where the 4th has since come out and won the Lockinge.
This clearly shows on average Cracksman is a 10-15lb lesser horse around Epsom and the reason he has a 66% strike rate there, is because the standard of races he has run in around there are significantly less than his natural ability, therefore he can run around a stone below par and still win.
I would be very surprised if he runs again at Epsom, but also fully expect him to be retired to stud at the end of this season.
@ima_mazed66
I think this is where the problem of race analysis comes in. People suggest Frankie held the horse up yesterday. I invite you to watch the whole replay. Frankie jumps well on the horse and you see him try and take a forward position but for whatever reason, the horse just isn't striding forwards. After 50 yards Frankie is changing his hands and even gave the horse a slap up the neck. The horse was just very slow to find his stride and clearly was not happy on an undulating track. With this Frankie allowed the horse to slot in, to try and get him balanced and get into a rhythm. From riding I can tell you if a horse isn't really striding out or going forward the worse thing you can do is rush it into it's stride and make it work hard, as if the horse suddenly finds it's stride, you may have got the horse over racing which on a downhill track is a recipe for disaster.
After about 3f, Cracksman still didn't look happy to me, he was sitting 5th and even being pressed by the last horse, and Dettori again appeared to be changing his hands, giving him a squeeze and asking his horse to find his stride, but the horse wasn't responding.
Coming down the hill, the horse changes his legs 4-5 times and the race is quickening up, Frankie has no choice but to tart to sternly ask his mount to progress despite being very much unbalanced, the horses natural ability see's him move into a closing 3rd, but he was making hard work of an average field and a field where arguably the two form horses were beaten before Tattenham corner and he effectively didn't have strong competition. As they straighten off the bend, Frankie looks like he is going to make a run up the centre of the track to challenge the leader but his progress looks laboured and the horse is leaning in. Fortunately for him, he is able to switch the horse and get him to change leads and grab the rail, immediately when he has done this, he stops hanging and finds his momentum up the hill and gradually draws in the leader. Sadly for SDS he only realises Dettori is on the rail when he's got to his quarters and by then it's too late to close the door, if you look at SDS just over 1f out he steals a peak and sees Frankie pushing and scrubbing to his outside, he doesn't expect Dettori to switch his mount, and therefore he doesn't see the need to allow his horse to go all the way over to the rail, he has about 1.5L on Dettori at the time, and Cracksman looks laboured in his run. It's only when it's too late for SDS to do anything about it, does he see Frankie has got the rail and his horse is gaining slowly, but enough to wear down SDS's mount.
Frankie didn't ride the horse with over confidence in a hold up role, the horse was at no stage going forwards for him, until around 2.5f out when he started to hit rising ground and the camber subsided. The horses natural ability or the fact he was vastly the most superior horse in the race is what kept him from being tailed off and well beaten before the hill came into play. Dettori gave him a sensible and brilliant ride to win. Many jockeys would have accepted defeat, but Dettori gave the horse every chance to get balanced and because he rides the horse so well, eventually got a tune out of the horse.
You make a point about the horse having a 66% strike rate but not liking the track, why is this a negative thing ? The horse is a proven solid 125-130 horse, arguably the best middle distance horse in training, when he won the Blue Ribband he only got up by a short head to beat horses 20-30lb his inferior, and again that day he struggled on the track and his class brought him through. He ran better in the Derby but he found himself in amongst horses and lost his position coming down the hill, I think the faster ground also helped him, as yesterday was very gluey ground which makes it hard to pick up on, even harder when your mount isn't travelling comfortably. In the Derby he lost his position down the hill and stayed on up it, but not quick enough to win. He has shown since the Derby he was the best horse to run in the race, but on good ground in the Derby he only ran to 115, some 10-15lb lower than his optimum ability.
Yesterday is a very hard race to rate, but for all the second may have improved, he is a fully exposed 110 horse, and Cracksman needed every inch of the track to win. It is plausible to accept the second may have run a career best of 112 / 113, but that brings Cracksman in around 114, which is still 10-15lb worse than his best form, but it also means you have to accept he has run within 1lb of his Derby 3rd. I personally don't see that. The 4th, 5th and 6th have run no race, so you have to strike off their runs, none of them have run anywhere there ability. The 3rd ran well but it's hard pressed to say he's run to his 117 mark and he looked slow just staying on. In Europe the tracks are often undulating so the track hasn't bothered him. I think the second has to have run to about 108/110 and for all its looked like a career best for the horse, I'm not convinced he has run any better than he has before, but his love of the track, position in the race and disappointment of the majority of his rivals has opened the door for him to run very well. I'm going to say 110 and therefore Cracksman has run 112. Now my official figures haven't updated yet and they may score the race higher, but I struggle to see how they could. The time was not impressive and the visual effects of the race suggest more under performed than over performed.
So in three runs at Epsom Cracksman has run 103, 115 and 112. A horse who ran to 123 in the Irish Derby, 125 in the Great Voltigeur, 130 in the Champion Stakes and 127 in the Prix Ganay, where the 4th has since come out and won the Lockinge.
This clearly shows on average Cracksman is a 10-15lb lesser horse around Epsom and the reason he has a 66% strike rate there, is because the standard of races he has run in around there are significantly less than his natural ability, therefore he can run around a stone below par and still win.
I would be very surprised if he runs again at Epsom, but also fully expect him to be retired to stud at the end of this season.
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