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IF YOU EVER NEEDED CONCRETE EVIDENCE OF THE SELF INTEREST THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE ABOUT,THEN THE BRBA (FORMER NBPA) NEGOTIATORS HAVE SURPASSED THEMSELVES,BOOKMAKERS ASSOCIATIONS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE!
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FOXY DONT EXPECT ANY HELP FROM THE ASSOCIATIONS REGARDING HAYDOCK OR ANY OTHER MINOR RING,UNLESS A DIRECTOR HAS A PICK NUMBER,FACT!
there would be no chance of me going to haydock saturday even if it was open but for other books due to the clashes it is one of the best days ,they have just had food taken out of there mouths but as you say i would be silly of me to expect any help from the associations.
foxy, did you see an article the other day on who was the richest man in the UK - ?
he started life in a council house in your neck of the woods
Born in 1952, Jim Ratcliffe grew up in a council house on Dunkerley Avenue in Failsworth, a small town between Manchester and Oldham.
He was sent to Beverley Grammar School when his family moved to Yorkshire.
As well as being football mad, he founded the school's industrial society during sixth form.
He got a 2:1 degree in chemical engineering at the University of Birmingham.
On his first day, he was embarrassed to see he was nearly at the bottom of a list of 99 undergraduates ranked by their A-level results.
He worked for BP during a summer holiday after graduating and was offered a job. But he was fired after just three days because his boss had seen his medical report and wasn't keen on him working there with mild eczema.
Ratcliffe went on to work as a trainee accountant at a pharmaceuticals company before moving to Esso then Courtaulds.
In 1992 he mortgaged his house to buy BP's chemicals division for about £40 million.
He only started his first business weeks before his 40th birthday and founded Ineos aged 45 in 1998.
During the next 20 years he built his empire.
Ratcliffe married his first wife Amanda Townson in 1985. The pair, who have two sons, divorced in 1995. He has a daughter with his second wife Alicia.
Cutting a svelte figure, he does distance running and triathlons to keep himself in shape.
Source: The Sunday Times
he started life in a council house in your neck of the woods
Born in 1952, Jim Ratcliffe grew up in a council house on Dunkerley Avenue in Failsworth, a small town between Manchester and Oldham.
He was sent to Beverley Grammar School when his family moved to Yorkshire.
As well as being football mad, he founded the school's industrial society during sixth form.
He got a 2:1 degree in chemical engineering at the University of Birmingham.
On his first day, he was embarrassed to see he was nearly at the bottom of a list of 99 undergraduates ranked by their A-level results.
He worked for BP during a summer holiday after graduating and was offered a job. But he was fired after just three days because his boss had seen his medical report and wasn't keen on him working there with mild eczema.
Ratcliffe went on to work as a trainee accountant at a pharmaceuticals company before moving to Esso then Courtaulds.
In 1992 he mortgaged his house to buy BP's chemicals division for about £40 million.
He only started his first business weeks before his 40th birthday and founded Ineos aged 45 in 1998.
During the next 20 years he built his empire.
Ratcliffe married his first wife Amanda Townson in 1985. The pair, who have two sons, divorced in 1995. He has a daughter with his second wife Alicia.
Cutting a svelte figure, he does distance running and triathlons to keep himself in shape.
Source: The Sunday Times
Jim Ratcliffe, who founded chemical firm Ineos, topped the list with an estimated worth of £21.05bn - after coming 18th last year.
good morning delta never met this chap but i get my chinise takeaway from dunkerley avenue.
QUESTION TO BRBA ,HOW HAVE YOU ALLOWED TWO DIRECTORS WHO A VERY CLEAR CONFLICT OF INTEREST DO THE PONTY NEGOTIATIONS ON BEHALF OF ALL PONTY BOOKS???ANSWER,DID YOU SEE THE ROYAL WEDDING,WASNT THE WEATHER FANTASTIC!
for once i can actually agree with something that factmachine says.
the BRBA are working hard at having good relationships with all racecourses and are succeeding and being respected by 90%
unfortunately there are still 10% of which haydock park is one where we are making little progress.
you don't say how your bookmaker liason meeting resulted there , factmachine.
the BRBA are working hard at having good relationships with all racecourses and are succeeding and being respected by 90%
unfortunately there are still 10% of which haydock park is one where we are making little progress.
you don't say how your bookmaker liason meeting resulted there , factmachine.
no , i did not watch the royal wedding .
it is the silver ring that the racecourse wish to close , where i do not have any interest. for the record , my suggestions were that the boundary fence between tatts and the butts should be set at the very end of the stand , not where the racecourse now plan this to be.
the management are keen to have some grassed area for picnics on sundays.
it is the silver ring that the racecourse wish to close , where i do not have any interest. for the record , my suggestions were that the boundary fence between tatts and the butts should be set at the very end of the stand , not where the racecourse now plan this to be.
the management are keen to have some grassed area for picnics on sundays.
WELL DONE ADGE IM SURE THE BRBA MEMBERSHIP AS WELL AS THE OTHER ASSOCIATIONS THINK YOU AND CHRIS HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB!
the clown at haydock saw fit to close the silver on easter saturday 2016 giving 2 days notice there was no reason ever given, people turned up with there families and picnic baskets only to be told they would need to pay extra and go in tatts and join in with the football songs.there was much uncertainty throughout that summer as to when the ring would be open,this easter saturday the people turned up to find they could come in but could not watch the racing as the viewing terrace was closed ,everybody was under the impression it would all be sorted out by this saturdays family fun day but no the haydock park race course manager has let many people down again some will probably find other interests on summer saturdays in the future.as long as haydock employ somebody with very little feel for running a race course then things all round can only get worse for almost everybody concerned.
"AS YOU HAVE SEEN WITH WASNOTS REPLY THEY WONT ANSWER A DIRECT QUESTION"
Hang on just a minute. Don't you go lumping me in with this. You asked me and I didn't have any information. I'm not just making stuff up and banding about wild accusations. There's enough of that on this thread already.
Hang on just a minute. Don't you go lumping me in with this. You asked me and I didn't have any information. I'm not just making stuff up and banding about wild accusations. There's enough of that on this thread already.
WASNOT,OK YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE PONTY SITUATION,LETS ASSUME THESE ARE NOT WILD ACCUSATIONS AND ARE INDEED FACT WHICH THEY ARE,I WILL ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN,DO YOU THINK THE BRBA NEGOTIATORS HAVE ACTED IN THE BEST INTEREST OF PONTY BOOKMAKERS ?????????
,LETS ASSUME THESE ARE NOT WILD ACCUSATIONS AND ARE INDEED FACT WHICH THEY ARE,I WILL ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN,DO YOU THINK THE BRBA NEGOTIATORS HAVE ACTED IN THE BEST INTEREST OF PONTY BOOKMAKERS ?????????
WASNOT,HAVE THE BRBA NEGOTIATORS WITHHELD VITAL INFORMATION TO THERE MEMBERS AND OTHER PONTY BOOKS,AND PROSPERED WITH INFORMATION THAT THEY HAVE BEEN PRIVY TO WITH THE PROTECTION OF CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENTS???????????
yet another change of plan at haydock silver now open on saturday after yesterday informing everyone it was closed no mention on haydock website about it been open what a circus.
perhaps they remembered it was family day ,the viewing terrace will still be closed however .
foxy, will that small stand next to the main stand be open? Far better and much more civilised than that appalling stand and it's deafening noise.
its open sparrow after they said it would not be yesterday,however you can only see the racing from the grass.
128 POUND BADGE WHATS THAT ABOUT.HOPE ADGE HASNT BEEN NEGOCIATING ON OUR BEHALF HERE AS WELL
Crazy foxy and they obviously couldn't care less about providing an alternative for others who might appreciate a little more comfort.
sparrow most would consider jcr to be ahead of the game with the running of race courses however this place has slipped threw the net,the manager thinks the families prefer to pay extra and listen to liverpool and united fans carrying on.
I would pay extra to go in that smaller enclosure. I couldn't believe how much better it was in there and actually being able to sit down with a cup of tea and have easy access to other facilities. I wouldn't go in that main stand for free!!
sparrow its a smashing stand as you say you can sit down and have a cup of tea watch the race unfold when the terrace is open or get close to them on the rail without putting up with the out of football season crowd.
you need to be careful what you wish for MaxED.......to date FIVE tattersalls list bookmakers have told me that in their mind ALL silver ring bookmakers should lose their pitches and investment totally if and when the enclosure is closed.
just to be clear adge are you referring to ponty or haydock there ?
the proverb of this sorry tale seems to be if you want to protect your interests you have to put the time in as a BRAB? rep.
hardly rocket science is it.
why put your livelyhood in someone elses hands-youve only got yourselves to blame but choose to blame somebody else
hardly rocket science is it.
why put your livelyhood in someone elses hands-youve only got yourselves to blame but choose to blame somebody else
so already 5 tatts bookmakers at ponte wanting silver ring closed ,is it any surprise the way race course bookmakers are looked upon.
adge is in confidence to everything thats happening -yet youre too lazy to be in that position yet slag him off
CHAV ,THE ASSOCIATIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT ALL BOOKMAKERS NOT JUST THEMSELVES,IT SEEMS THOUGH THAT THIS PONTY SITUATION MIGHT NOT BE A DONE DEAL YET
if you believe that everyone is putting theyre own interests equal to others than you may be let down
not indirectly to anyone foxy,but a bit like being an mp you cant please all your constituents
In my experience, the racecourses don't give a **** about racecourse bookmakers and most racecourse bookmakers don't give a **** about other racecourse bookmakers. The racecourse consistently **** on us and when you challenge them you get the Face? Bothered? Face? Bothered stock response and, sadly, almost all racecourse bookmakers look after number one. That unfortunately, is the business we are in,
SPOT ON YOUVEGOTITTWO,THE WORSE OFFENDERS BEING THE ASSOCIATION DIRECTORS WHO DONT MAKE ANY SECRET OF THE FACT (AS DEMONSTRATED WITH THE CURRENT PONTY SITUATION).IT DOESNT HELP THOUGH WHEN RACECOURSE BOOKMAKERS JUST SIT BACK AND LET THESE THINGS HAPPEN WITH NOT EVEN A MURMUR,THE FENCE SITTERS WILL NOT PUT THEIR HEADS ABOVE THE PARAPET,SO THE RACECOURSES,GAMBLING COMMISSION AND ASSOCIATION DIRECTORS TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE.
The truth is, that in my experience, when the racecourse **** on you and you raise it with the association, nothing happens, and similarly, when you write to the racecourse yourself raising an issue, nothing happens. FACE? BOVERED? standard reply. Its a sinking ship and the call has gone out - SAVE YOURSELF - BOOKMAKERS AND WOMEN FIRST!
AGREE WITH ABOVE BUT ITS A SINKING SHIP DUE TO THE FACT THAT WE ARE CONSTANTLY SHAFTED BY OUR ASSOCIATIONS,CONTRACT LAWYER WITH NO SELF INTEREST SHOULD BE APPOINTED BY ONCOURSE BOOKMAKERS TO FIGHT THE RACECOURSES,OTHER THREATS LIKE THE USELESS GAMBLING COMMISSION ALSO NEED DEALING WITH BUT BY WHO I DONT KNOW!
The Gambling Commission is a complete joke, not fit for purpose, and come the glorious day, they will be first against the wall (ha ha). The fact that they they send me letters about not accepting bets off a parent and their child at a family fun day but allow criminal activity to openly flourish on the betting exchanges says everything about that "outfit".
Back to the current situation, just accept that you can trust no one and nothing. The Racecourses, The Associations, and unfortunately, the vast amount of your fellow bookmakers.
Back to the current situation, just accept that you can trust no one and nothing. The Racecourses, The Associations, and unfortunately, the vast amount of your fellow bookmakers.
yes , plenty of name calling and finger pointing but nothing whatever constructive...but the facts are still the same , Pontefract racecourse is closing the silver ring because it was loss making together with the need to extend tattersalls..
now factmachine , this is your chance , where do you believe 30 silver ring bookmakers should now be housed to best preserve their investments without harming others financial investment......come on , let's hear it
now factmachine , this is your chance , where do you believe 30 silver ring bookmakers should now be housed to best preserve their investments without harming others financial investment......come on , let's hear it
Adge....Besides CH and yourself how many other bookmakers have had knowledge of the changes ?
ADGE UNLIKE YOURSELF OR ANY ASSOCIATION DIRECTOR THAT REFUSES TO ANSWER AWKWARD QUESTIONS (LIKE THE ONE ABOVE) OR HIDES BEHIND CONFIDENTIALITY CLAUSES,I GAVE YOU THE FAIREST SOLUTION ON PAGE ONE OF THIS THREAD,BUT WHAT YOU HAVE DONE IS WHAT THE MAJORITY OF ASSOCIATION DIRECTORS DO,CHOSEN THE PATH OF SELF INTEREST,SOME OF YOUR MEMBERS AND OTHER BOOKMAKERS ARE GOING TO BE IN LIMBO WHEN THE FENCE IS REMOVED BETWEEN THE SILVER AND BUTTS AS THEY WILL HAVE NOWHERE LEFT TO SIT!
Yes Fact...you're post on page one of this thread is the most equitable solution...I can't for the life of me work out why it wasn't considered !!!
Adge....I'll expand my question.....were the chairmen of ANY other association with members trading at the track made aware of the sitution...or did the BRBA take it upon THEMSELVES to represent the interests of ALL bookmakers unitaterally ?
Adge....I'll expand my question.....were the chairmen of ANY other association with members trading at the track made aware of the sitution...or did the BRBA take it upon THEMSELVES to represent the interests of ALL bookmakers unitaterally ?
fact , i've looked at what you say is a fair proposal. you seem to be attempting to justify it by prices paid for pitches [ the most important thing that the BRBA are trying to preserve is values ] maybe you should research what number one in the butts changed hands for .
also answering mugbookie , the BRBA were invited by the pontefract management to help with what were proposed redevelopment plans that were in the early stages...all dependent on planning , racecourse grants , architects etc etc., remember this was before last christmas.
i do not know if any others were invited by the racecourse.
the proposal i drew up included that the new lower tatts area should be extended to the very end of the stand and the butts be reduced to just a concrete car park only with mobile catering and bar, my thoughts being that was more fair to all but that was rejected by pontefract management.
i should also add that the highest bookmaker attendance in the silver ring in 2017 was 18 . which was one down on 2016
also answering mugbookie , the BRBA were invited by the pontefract management to help with what were proposed redevelopment plans that were in the early stages...all dependent on planning , racecourse grants , architects etc etc., remember this was before last christmas.
i do not know if any others were invited by the racecourse.
the proposal i drew up included that the new lower tatts area should be extended to the very end of the stand and the butts be reduced to just a concrete car park only with mobile catering and bar, my thoughts being that was more fair to all but that was rejected by pontefract management.
i should also add that the highest bookmaker attendance in the silver ring in 2017 was 18 . which was one down on 2016
i don't mind answering any awkward questions , fact . fire away. if i can i will
ADGE SHOULDNT THAT READ INCREASING VALUES OF DIRECTORS PICKS WITH NO CONSULTATION WHAT SO EVER WITH FELLOW BOOKMAKERS,WHATEVER SPIN YOU PUT ON THE PONTY SITUATION, YOU AND YOUR FELLOW NEGOTIATOR ARE BANG OUT OF ORDER.
if that's one of your awkward questions , we were invited by pontefract management to assist....the racecourse makes the decisions not the BRBA , i was overruled on some thoughts i had . i follow the thought as perfectly presented by bryan hazell that fellow bookmakers should be consulted first but if the BRBA are informed of a proposal in advance of something being released and we immediately inform all bookmakers the word would soon spread around the racecourses managements that the BRBA cannot be trusted with information. in no time at all we would become as useless and impotent as the FRB now are.
"WORD WOULD SOON SPREAD THAT BRBA CAN NOT BE TRUSTED WITH INFORMATION" IT JUST SO HAPPENED AFTER YOU "ASSISTED" YOUR PICKS WENT UP CONSIDERABLY IN VALUE, AS HAVE THE BEST PICKS ON THE TRACK (THE RAILS) WITH THE MAJORITY OF PICKS AT PONTEFRACT DEVALUED,YET YOU SAY EARLIER YOUR "TRYING TO PRESERVE VALUES" AND THERE LIES THE PROBLEM,AS USUAL THE VALUES THE ASSOCIATIONS PROTECT ARE THE BEST PITCHES AND THOSE OF FELLOW DIRECTORS.IM SURE ANYONE READING THIS THREAD CAN DRAW THERE OWN CONCLUSIONS AS TO WHAT THE ONCOURSE BOOKMAKER ASSOCIATIONS ARE ALL ABOUT!
IT JUST SO HAPPENED AFTER YOU "ASSISTED" YOUR PICKS WENT UP CONSIDERABLY IN VALUE, AS HAVE THE BEST PICKS ON THE TRACK (THE RAILS) WITH THE MAJORITY OF PICKS AT PONTEFRACT DEVALUED,YET YOU SAY EARLIER YOUR "TRYING TO PRESERVE VALUES" AND THERE LIES THE PROBLEM,AS USUAL THE VALUES THE ASSOCIATIONS PROTECT ARE THE BEST PITCHES AND THOSE OF FELLOW DIRECTORS.IM SURE ANYONE READING THIS THREAD CAN DRAW THERE OWN CONCLUSIONS AS TO WHAT THE ONCOURSE BOOKMAKER ASSOCIATIONS ARE ALL ABOUT!
i do think that you think too negatively , you know.
the combined new tatts can now hold two to three thousand more people.
with 2 for 1 family days and other concessions together with better music acts on the two friday nights the marketing for bigger attendances will be in both tatts and lower tatts favour. think positively
the combined new tatts can now hold two to three thousand more people.
with 2 for 1 family days and other concessions together with better music acts on the two friday nights the marketing for bigger attendances will be in both tatts and lower tatts favour. think positively
HAVE YOU AND YOUR FELLOW BHRB DIRECTOR CONSIDERABLY BENEFITED FROM THE PONTEFRACT "NEGOTIATIONS" ?????????
yes , clearly gained but not connected to how the negotiations went. if the silver ring books were added to the tatts list [ as a number of tatts books want ] they would lose everything and the butts would gain more
clearly obvious that if the silver were to close the butts would benefit , i don't know if the word considerably is correct . time will tell with that.
clearly obvious that if the silver were to close the butts would benefit , i don't know if the word considerably is correct . time will tell with that.
Adge...In your 17.26 post are you suggesting that the entire BRBA board had prior knowledge of the redevelopment plans ?
As you will be aware , a company director has a significant number of legal responsibilities to both the company and it's stakeholders...I understand that a guaranteed front line silver ring pitch in the teens was sold earlier this year for a figure in excess of four figures...that pitch will now be a second line lower tatts pitch...and as you have alluded....could well have been worthless !!!!....In what way have the BRBA exercised their legal duty of care to the purchaser ?...or ANY bookmaker who has BOUGHT or SOLD a pontefract pitch without knowledge of the redevelopment in the last six months ? This is an absolute legal minefield Adge.... directors of ANY association should be made fully aware that they could be liable for losses suffered by any pitch vendor or purchaser if they knowingly withhold information from stakeholders that results in financial loss.The obvious way to avoid this situation is to insist that racecourses suspend pitch transfers once association directors or LCM become aware of ANY ring changes that will manifestly affect list position values.
How successful lower tatts will be next year will depend significantly on how many patrons trade up from the silver ring as it is now, to lower tatts.Foxy is the man who will be able to offer a more significant opinion....but based on my experience of the ring,only a small percentage of the current silver ring patrons will be willing to pay the extra and trade up to a redeveloped tatts....Be sure to take an extra till roll...or two.. for the Sundays next year Adge....I think you'll need them !!!!
As you will be aware , a company director has a significant number of legal responsibilities to both the company and it's stakeholders...I understand that a guaranteed front line silver ring pitch in the teens was sold earlier this year for a figure in excess of four figures...that pitch will now be a second line lower tatts pitch...and as you have alluded....could well have been worthless !!!!....In what way have the BRBA exercised their legal duty of care to the purchaser ?...or ANY bookmaker who has BOUGHT or SOLD a pontefract pitch without knowledge of the redevelopment in the last six months ? This is an absolute legal minefield Adge.... directors of ANY association should be made fully aware that they could be liable for losses suffered by any pitch vendor or purchaser if they knowingly withhold information from stakeholders that results in financial loss.The obvious way to avoid this situation is to insist that racecourses suspend pitch transfers once association directors or LCM become aware of ANY ring changes that will manifestly affect list position values.
How successful lower tatts will be next year will depend significantly on how many patrons trade up from the silver ring as it is now, to lower tatts.Foxy is the man who will be able to offer a more significant opinion....but based on my experience of the ring,only a small percentage of the current silver ring patrons will be willing to pay the extra and trade up to a redeveloped tatts....Be sure to take an extra till roll...or two.. for the Sundays next year Adge....I think you'll need them !!!!
i don't know which pitch you mean , mugbookie . i did monitor number 11 being in the auction during january with a reserve of 500. i was pleased to see the bidding only reached 240...the seller knew nothing of probable redevelopment i should add.
are you at pontefract tomorrow evening ?
are you at pontefract tomorrow evening ?
No Adge...you can buy me a cup of tea at redcar Monday if you want !...I asked a bookmaker at Bangor Saturday if he was aware of the Pontefract situation...he said he was but had sold his pitch in January....no suggestion whatsoever that he was aware of what was afoot !!!
Think you've got the wrong track with 11 reaching 240 in January...according to the AGT website 11 sold for 4800 in July 2016 !!!!!!!
Think you've got the wrong track with 11 reaching 240 in January...according to the AGT website 11 sold for 4800 in July 2016 !!!!!!!
that's a date as i have to buy amy pie and chips anyway . have to bribe her to go there
Pie and chips as a bribe...i'm not going there !!!!......have you looked up the Ponte silver pitch ?....4800 for 11....this is not a failing ring Adge.....it's very workable on a sunny Sunday !!!!!
yes , i've asked someone. they say it had a reserve of about 4k and bidding reached about 2.5k...i was in america ...memory must be failing.
i still expect sundays to be positive...also ladies day in there i expect to be a bonus day
i still expect sundays to be positive...also ladies day in there i expect to be a bonus day
Adge.....Sorry, but you're clutching at strawberries here.....ladies days and music nights.....lots of people.....lots of expenses.....very little business !!!!!
So, Silver 11 was on the agt auction website in January was it ????.......I wasn't aware of that Adge.......good job it wasn't sold !!!!!!!!
So, Silver 11 was on the agt auction website in January was it ????.......I wasn't aware of that Adge.......good job it wasn't sold !!!!!!!!
PIE AND CHIPS,HOPEFULLY ADGE AND FELLOW DIRECTORS WILL BE ON BREAD AND WATER SOON!
to answer mugbookies question about how many current silver ring patrons will pay the extra well in my opinion very few will,however after thinking about the situation and looking ahead the ring could not carry on as it was ,i dont know what it will be like as a lower tatts but i have to be honest i am quite looking forward to the change if its useless then it no different to what it is now,i still think the buying and selling in recent months debatable as to how many months,should have been suspended but do accept adges point in his 1812 post about the trust between all race courses and the brba if all imformation was passed on .
mug...stop trying to trip adge up....the silver 11 was up on auction over the winter the figures adge mentions are just about correct
With just one Butts bookmaker turning up for midweek meetings and approximately ten silver books turning up it is clear that the Butts enclosure has much to gain. Sundays are the best days in the silver ring, but even those are struggling, whereas the Butts books prosper as punters struggle to ‘get on’ some Sundays. Would it be unreasonable to suggest that 9 Butts books would be insufficient to service the silver AND butts punters? Currently 25 (16+ silver and 9butts) service these punters. Let’s face it, Pontefract is a deprived area, not being rude st all. Silver punters will use the new Silver ring. Another point worth noting is that a silver ring will exist in some form. Wouldn’t it make sense that if no bookmaker is to lose their pitch, we have a Silver and Lower Silver ring? As for this ‘when it comes to minor rings it is all about pitch values’ I think this is a load of rubbish! It is supply and demand AND profitability that determines a pick value. I have t on good authority (BRBA director) that Norman can do as he pleases and will not be dictated to by us mere bookmakers.
First of all a correction....the silver ring pitch I refered to in my 21.02 post was in fact sold in september....not January as the bookmaker concerned had told me....but the principle absolutely remains the same. What Artful dodger, if silver 11 HAD reached it's reserve of £4000 in January with the BRBA knowing the ring may close.... would Adge or CH be saying to factmachine....foxy....or mugbookie.....'sorry guys, we knew the ring may be closing 6 months ago but we had to keep it quiet until the location of the new burger bar was sorted....and you have to understand....in every negotiation.....there are 'winners and losers'....but rest assured we at the BRBA have your best interests at heart....by the way, your membership renewal is now due...we'll let you pay monthly since you've just unknowingly set fire to 4k !!!!
Now Artful...regarding your other accusation of me 'trying to trip Adge up'...he's tripped himself up over this....and he knows it....with the very significant conflict of interest he has.....he should NOT have gone anywhere near this silver/butts negotiation with the world's biggest bargepole....and as a trained accountant he'll be fully aware of his legal responsibilities....That's why he kept a close eye on silver ring pitch sales whilst in America....and emailed the Ponte management asking for list position transfers to be suspended...as they should of been !!!
Foxy...Agree that very few silver ring punters will migrate to tatts....somebody like you with significant knowledge of the silver ring should of had some input into the changes.
Footyexpert...based on what Foxy suggests....it's not unreasonable to suggest that 9 books will be insufficient to service a combined silver/butts...but on the positive side,the 46 books in tatts.... probably.... won't have the same problem !
Now Artful...regarding your other accusation of me 'trying to trip Adge up'...he's tripped himself up over this....and he knows it....with the very significant conflict of interest he has.....he should NOT have gone anywhere near this silver/butts negotiation with the world's biggest bargepole....and as a trained accountant he'll be fully aware of his legal responsibilities....That's why he kept a close eye on silver ring pitch sales whilst in America....and emailed the Ponte management asking for list position transfers to be suspended...as they should of been !!!
Foxy...Agree that very few silver ring punters will migrate to tatts....somebody like you with significant knowledge of the silver ring should of had some input into the changes.
Footyexpert...based on what Foxy suggests....it's not unreasonable to suggest that 9 books will be insufficient to service a combined silver/butts...but on the positive side,the 46 books in tatts.... probably.... won't have the same problem !
all should read their contract with the racecourse. " the best contract lawyers that money can buy " [ FRB quote ] cover this on page 8 sections 3.7, 3.8 and 3.9...will see you all , or most of you this evening.
and BRBA subscriptions are overdue ...should have been paid by now
and BRBA subscriptions are overdue ...should have been paid by now
Adge...Relevant parts 3.8...'having taken account of the interests of all relevant parties'....i'm a member of the ARB... are they not a 'relevant party'....also, with the ring being earmarked for closure...nobody from the silver ring was consulted...despite them being 'the most relevant party'
'The licensor ' shall have no liability to the bookmaker for any loss incurred as a result of relocation or closure of a ring.....that would very quickly fall down in any court of law where the licensor or the BRBA knowingly withheld information that was prejudicial to the interests of either a purchaser....or vendor.....the operative word being 'knowingly'
'The licensor ' shall have no liability to the bookmaker for any loss incurred as a result of relocation or closure of a ring.....that would very quickly fall down in any court of law where the licensor or the BRBA knowingly withheld information that was prejudicial to the interests of either a purchaser....or vendor.....the operative word being 'knowingly'
According to Norman, 2 pitches have changed hands at Pontefract ‘recently’. He was concerned that people were buying pitches not knowing the changes that were coming. He failed to do anything about it, though.
the BRBA were invited by mr gundill to discuss bookmakers interests if plans to close the silver ring were to be made. we were asked to make an assessment as to how bookmakers in all four rings would equally best retain their pitch values under such a circumstance.
yes , i know it's clear that all would not be exactly even in this process.
one of the very first suggestions i made was that mark ryan representing AGT should be included.
mr gundill agreed that when firm plans were completed with architects plans in place the AGT would be informed immediately , which is exactly what has happened.
to repeat we were included by invitation
yes , i know it's clear that all would not be exactly even in this process.
one of the very first suggestions i made was that mark ryan representing AGT should be included.
mr gundill agreed that when firm plans were completed with architects plans in place the AGT would be informed immediately , which is exactly what has happened.
to repeat we were included by invitation
Norman has personally asked Belinda Carlisle not to open up tonight with "We Want The Same Thing"
Thank you ITK for that very constructive interjection...if you're outfit are looking to sell the Ponte rails pitch....let me know first will you 
sometimes a thread needs lightening up, usually where bookmakers are involved
hope she has wellington boots with her , we are having an absolute monsoon here at presnt
You're right...but they all 'want the same thing' MONEY !!!!.....be sure to keep me in the loop over the Ponte rails pitch....it may turn out to be no good with getting half the Tatts stand.
Funny that Adge....i'm sat in the garden....laptop on the table.....sunbathing.....in ....MANCHESTER...!!!!!!!!!
I notice a number of posts mentioning that BRBA directors were consulted in this. Please can someone let Norman know that he was speaking to BRBA representatives? The reason I ask this is that each and every response I get from email (I hope everyone is emailing him with their concerns!) he mentions that he has spoke to CH - the FRB representative! You couldn’t make it up! I hope CH doesn’t find out that Norman is referring to him as the FRB rep!
When will the revised Ring lists be in place ? Does adge know ?
still need to get all their ducks in a line , democrat...full detailed planning position , funding for work , grants etc.
work expected to begin in late october and all completed by late march ready for the first race meeting of 2019
work expected to begin in late october and all completed by late march ready for the first race meeting of 2019
FWIW it takes a bigger person to answer their ‘critics’ than just to hide away. Mugpunter - you say AP shouldn’t have gone near it with the biggest barge pole in the world (or words to that effect) but you can’t have it both ways. Do you want the BRBA to represent you or not? The BRBA advises them to suspend all transfers, but the racecourse refused. That is certainly worth considering, as they were happy enough to keep taking the 8% on deals that were unjustified after finding out what the plans are. My beef is with the racecourse. Surprise surprise, a Racecourse making decisions with no consultation.. NG doesn’t want to have to deal with dozens of books every meeting. He wants a single point of contact. The problem is that it doesn’t work like that, ALL stakeholders should be engage.
FOOTYEXPERT,THE WHOLE POINT OF MUGBOOKIES POST WAS THAT HE DIDNT WANT THE BRBA TO REPRESENT HIM,HE IS A MEMBER OF THE ANOTHER ASSOCIATION THE ARB AND AT NO STAGE DID THE BRBA CONSULT WITH THE ARB OR ANYONE,NOT EVEN THEIR OWN MEMBERS THAT HAVE PITCHES AT PONTY REGARDING THE "NEGOTIATIONS" THAT BOTH BRBA NEGOTIATORS WOULD CONSIDERABLY BENEFIT FROM. MUGBOOKIES POST IS SPOT ON IN THE FACT THAT POSITIONS WERE BOUGHT AND SOLD IN THE 2 YEARS THAT THIS INSIDE KNOWLEDGE WAS KNOWN AND COULD HAVE HAD VERY SERIOUS REPERCUSSIONS FOR ANY DIRECTOR OF AN ASSOCIATION THAT WAS INVOLVED.RACECOURSES CANT AND SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED TO HAVE A "SINGLE POINT OF CONTACT" BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY DO,SELF INTEREST,SELF INTEREST,SELF INTEREST!
i don't like the word negotiator as i consider that i was asked for help with advice only.
i repeat that i knew nothing of the news that the silver ring was going to be closed until 3 or 4 weeks before christmas.
since then i have been working with the racecourse on how every ones contracts are affected by a ring closure and succeeded in all silver ring pitch holders still being able to have a pitch to bet in in the future, despite many bookmakers not agreeing that they should.
as regards the ARB , i welcome any thoughts that they may have as i'm sure norman gundill would too.
this last year we had a situation very near the ARB headquarters at warwick where the silver ring was closed and it's bookmakers lost their pitches and their investment...these very same pitches are now being used by tattersalls bookmakers at some meetings .
the same could so easily happen at pontefract without the BRBA
sometimes you need to know who is on your side in these situations.
i repeat that i knew nothing of the news that the silver ring was going to be closed until 3 or 4 weeks before christmas.
since then i have been working with the racecourse on how every ones contracts are affected by a ring closure and succeeded in all silver ring pitch holders still being able to have a pitch to bet in in the future, despite many bookmakers not agreeing that they should.
as regards the ARB , i welcome any thoughts that they may have as i'm sure norman gundill would too.
this last year we had a situation very near the ARB headquarters at warwick where the silver ring was closed and it's bookmakers lost their pitches and their investment...these very same pitches are now being used by tattersalls bookmakers at some meetings .
the same could so easily happen at pontefract without the BRBA
sometimes you need to know who is on your side in these situations.
THEY SAY THERES NO SUCH THING AS A CERTAINTY,WELL ONE THING THAT IS, IS THAT THE BRBA OR ANY OTHER BOOKMAKER ASSOCIATION ARE NOT ON THE SIDE OF THE MAJORITY OF ONCOURSE BOOKMAKERS!
ADGE HOW MANY LETTERS DID THE BRBA SEND TO WARWICK REGARDING THE CLOSURE OF THE WARWICK SILVER RING,I WOULD HAZARD A GUESS AT NONE ?????????
as you probably know , factmachine , warwick racecourse is one of the jockey club racecourses.
following the fiasco with the FRB it is a slow progress building relationships back up but something the BRBA are working on.
i don't know the answer to your question as we prefer to meet in person . the point i am making is that most who lost their pitches are ARB members...whereas a very high number of silver ring bookmakers at pontefract are represented by the BRBA
following the fiasco with the FRB it is a slow progress building relationships back up but something the BRBA are working on.
i don't know the answer to your question as we prefer to meet in person . the point i am making is that most who lost their pitches are ARB members...whereas a very high number of silver ring bookmakers at pontefract are represented by the BRBA
I AM A MEMBER OF THE BRBA (LIKE MOST PEOPLE JOIN ANY ASSOCIATION, FOR THE PUBLIC LIABILITY INSURANCE) I HAVE A PITCH OR DID HAVE IN PONTY TATTS,WHO REPRESENTED ME ???????????????????
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