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equine flew
24 Apr 18 18:56
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Date Joined: 28 Aug 02
| Topic/replies: 4,525 | Blogger: equine flew's blog
086F Growise Champion Novice S'chase
K.M. Donoghue, rider of Dounikos (FR) trained by Gordon Elliott, reported to the Clerk of Scales that his mount made a noise and pulled up.

The Stewards enquired into an incident approaching the last fence involving Al Boum Photo (FR), ridden by P. Townend and Finian's Oscar, ridden by R.M. Power. Evidence was heard from the riders concerned. Having viewed the recording of the race and considered the evidence, the Stewards were of the opinion that P. Townend was in breach of Rule 214 in that he had ridden dangerously and having considered his record in this regard, the Stewards suspended him for 21 racedays and ordered that he forfeit his riding fee.


That fully clears it up then.
Pause Switch to Standard View IRISH STEWARDS REPORT INTO 6.40
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Report carrot1960 April 24, 2018 8:58 PM BST
If you watch the replay he appears to take a pull on his mount as he's going so well  then looks over his right shoulder and sees the other jockeys appear to be heading to by pass the last and  makes a split second decision to go that way as well.
Report betting_masta April 24, 2018 9:42 PM BST
why on god's green earth would he throw the race away because he didn't want the english horse to win, but instead let his direct rival win the race.
Report betting_masta April 24, 2018 9:43 PM BST

Apr 24, 2018 -- 2:58PM, carrot1960 wrote:


If you watch the replay he appears to take a pull on his mount as he's going so well

Report betting_masta April 24, 2018 9:45 PM BST
i typed a lot there and i'm not writing it all out again but basically

he looks right, the horse thinks he wants to go right, he changes his body entirely, then townend rides it cause he has to but the horse already has too much momentum and crashes into the other horse and the rails

any talk of a fix or it being bént or **** is just stupid
Report Lee Ho Fooks April 24, 2018 9:51 PM BST
Look at when he first stood up, where would he have got a call from?
Report GEORGE.B April 24, 2018 10:01 PM BST
Would he even hear any 'call', given the levels of noise from the crowd going down to the last?

I've had a good look back at it and imo he sees something ahead, thenchecks to his right that it's safe to take his mount off the track (it wasn't as it turned out), but what does he see?

And if that was the case, why haven't they just come out and said so?

I'm filing this in the too difficult tray Crazy
Report GEORGE.B April 24, 2018 10:07 PM BST
Apparently he did get a call to bypass the first, yep, above all that shouting and cheering from the crowd, and he took action despite no formal procedures being in place.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/apr/24/paul-townend-banned
-dangerous-riding-dramatic-punchestown-horse-racing
-finish-willie-mullins
Report GEORGE.B April 24, 2018 10:07 PM BST
first = fence Crazy
Report brassneck April 24, 2018 10:18 PM BST
the big question is why did he look behind him? what reason would he have to look round ,like it was a big race and he is about to jump so he says to himself,i will have a look round "Laugh
Report Racingqueen April 24, 2018 10:38 PM BST
Would he even hear any 'call', given the levels of noise from the crowd going down to the last?


What noise would that be? Its Ireland, the crowd would drunk & unconscience in the parade ring
Report Racingqueen April 24, 2018 10:38 PM BST
unconscious
Report sofiakenny April 24, 2018 11:28 PM BST
made a beeline for the tizzard horse when if he simply jumped the last would have probably won..he is on the right and stands up in the saddle..no idea what he said at the time..but suddenly running diagonally makes no sense whatever..a criminal ride..imo.
Report Autocue April 24, 2018 11:36 PM BST
Looks behind and does a Vinnie Jones on Finian's Oscar. Townend must really hate Tizzard.
Report DECALEC April 25, 2018 2:13 AM BST
Absolute fan asswholes ^^
Report DECALEC April 25, 2018 2:14 AM BST
Fkn
Report kincsem April 25, 2018 5:40 AM BST
Why does he stop riding?
Why does he not go for the fence?
Why does he drive the horse to the right?

The stewards give him 21 days for dangerous riding.
What about achieving the best possible place?  He was leading the race and stopped riding, then went off course.
Report adamski April 25, 2018 7:38 AM BST
Spot on kincsem, it was dangerous riding but why no ban or mention of not riding to achieve the best possible placing?

You've got to think he thought he had already finished the race prior to the last fence but then panicked when he caught a glimpse of Robbie Power riding vigorously on his inside.
Report Honest Bob April 25, 2018 8:19 AM BST
The absolute worst thing you can do in circumstances such as this is say nothing - as the report does - because the speculation will almost always be much worse than the actual events, as we can all see on this forum. Foolish at best and someone here needs to 'man up' and explain what actually happened. The North Koreans would have given more information than this lot have released so far!
Report elise April 25, 2018 8:24 AM BST
so you're saying he needs to he honest bob?
Report Ramruma April 25, 2018 8:40 AM BST
The Guardian:
The stewards published a skimpy verdict which shed no light on the reason for Townend’s action. However, it is understood the jockey told stewards he thought he had heard a shout directing him to bypass the fence. He accepted that none of the formal bypass procedures were in place.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/apr/24/paul-townend-banned-dangerous-riding-dramatic-punchestown-horse-racing-finish-willie-mullins
Report posy April 25, 2018 8:53 AM BST
Was he tested for drugs and/or alcohol;if not why not.
Report Honest Bob April 25, 2018 9:25 AM BST
That's right, Elise. I think it was my time in the Scouts that instilled that attribute. How I miss my Honest Bob bob-a-job weeks. I did think about mentioning the time that I used to do my impression of a cork floating in the sea when people used to see me in the waves and shout, "Oh look, there's Honest Bob bobbing!" but I decided that wasn't funny..............either :)
Report mondeoboxerblue April 25, 2018 9:30 AM BST
Someone needs to look at the 'betting patterns' as well, to see if there is anything suspicious !
Report mini me April 25, 2018 9:51 AM BST
Has no one heard Townend's comment?
Report geordie1956 April 25, 2018 9:51 AM BST
I don't believe there is anything suspicious but the lack of transparency and clarity from the stewards is deafening. If they are attempting to shield Townend from publicity they have done completely the opposite and conspiracy theories abound because they didn't have the presence to be open and truthful with what happened in the enquiry.

They need to man up today & answer all of the questions from the media as to why and how this contoversy happened...only then will this matter rest otherwise the reputation and integrity of Irish racing will be mud
Report elise April 25, 2018 10:18 AM BST
i don't think they are helping by not explaining fully, it doesn't do much for the sport and they have previous for not explaining or investigating properly

that said i don't think this is dishonest, whatever went on in his head he's just messed it up, he's not corrupt it's a fck up,

i would have liked to have seen him apologise publically to mullins for screwing his title prospects and to the tizzards for messing up their horse, not read that he has so far and apologies if he's now done that
Report stu April 25, 2018 10:33 AM BST
What is extremely puzzling (among many other things here) is how many times he has ridden the same jumps course previously.

Has that last fence ever been ommitted in all that time I wonder?
Report stu April 25, 2018 10:33 AM BST
I suppose it's possible?
Report stu April 25, 2018 10:34 AM BST
Then, as said, the usual features would be in place I presume (large signs middle of fence as per protocol)
Report stu April 25, 2018 10:38 AM BST
I agree the stewards official report is ridiculously brief and should be a full report into the jockey's own version.
Report elise April 25, 2018 10:38 AM BST
unless he explains i doubt we'll know, surprised he hasn't
Report stu April 25, 2018 10:41 AM BST
Yep elise, though surely someone will have to interview him on camera at some point, and ask some questions..?

He's supposed to be there today again isnt' he?
Report gerard April 25, 2018 10:43 AM BST
He's given a statement saying he thought he heard a shout that the fence was to be bypassed.....
Report salmon spray April 25, 2018 10:45 AM BST
Has he actually said that to anybody but the stewards ? If he said it to them why wasn't it in THEIR statement ?
Report gerard April 25, 2018 10:48 AM BST
It is in the latest statement.
Report adamski April 25, 2018 10:48 AM BST
If, as has been suggested Townend heard a shout to miss the fence surely the stewards and Townend would want to investigate this. Could it have been a jockey behind him who Townend doesn't want to get in trouble? Think a jockey missed a fence out here a few years ago due to another jockey shouting to him to go round it. Maybe a "professional foul" in horse racing if it comes off.
Report elise April 25, 2018 10:50 AM BST
the closest comment is from robbie power who posted on twitter about human error
Report MJK April 25, 2018 10:51 AM BST
If it is the case that he recognized the voice I'm sure he'll get his 'revenge' at some stage on the track. The working theory last night was that it was a spectator at the hedge, who is connected to another stable. Pure conjecture at this stage of course.
Report elise April 25, 2018 10:51 AM BST
as in pt making an error, he did not say that he got a call to bypass the fence
Report hulk23 April 25, 2018 10:57 AM BST
so all i need to do is lay whatever jumps the second last in front and then get my mate who's down at the last to shout at the jockey to go round it .... ?
Report stu April 25, 2018 10:58 AM BST
Surely no professional jock at this level is supposed to go round a fence (especially the last one) based on a 'shout' in any case! ConfusedCrazy
Report cloone river April 25, 2018 11:07 AM BST
Further to the enquiry into an incident approaching the last fence involving Al Boum Photo (FR), ridden by Paul Townend and Finian’s Oscar, ridden by R.M. Power, the following is a summary of the evidence given by both riders.  The summary will be appended to the enquiry report.

In his evidence, R.M. Power outlined what occurred. He said that he was coming to win his race before the last and was carried out. He described the incident as unfortunate and said he had no idea why it happened. He said he was not aware of any reason which would indicate that the fence was being bypassed.

In his evidence, Paul Townend said that he was riding with his head down between the last two fences and heard roaring on his left which caught his attention. He thought he had to bypass the fence but didn’t know which side to bypass on. He panicked and commenced his move to bypass the fence on the right side but then realised there was nothing on the fence to indicate a bypass was needed and tried to correct his actions but it was too late. He accepted in hindsight that there were no bypass procedures in place. He said he made a genuine mistake and apologised for what occurred.
Report elise April 25, 2018 11:07 AM BST
Paul Townend says confusion over whether he needed to bypass the last fence is what caused the collision that took out both Al Boum Photo and Finian's Oscar in a frantic finale to the Growise Champion Novice Steeplechase at Punchestown yesterday.
Report elise April 25, 2018 11:08 AM BST
The statement says: 'In his evidence, Paul Townend said that he was riding with his head down between the last two fences and head roaring on his left which caught his attention.
"He thought he had to bypass the fence but didn't know which side to bypass on. He panicked and commenced his move to bypass the fence on the right side but then realised there was nothing on the fence to indicate a bypass was needed and tried to correct his actions but it was too late.
"He accepted in hindsight that there were no bypass procedures in place. He said he made a genuine mistake and apologised for what occurred."
Townend has also apologised to fans in a statement released to the Racing Post.
"I thought I head a shout and that the last fence was being bypassed. It was a split-second reaction. I wish to apologise to connections and punters. I'd like to leave this
Report elise April 25, 2018 11:08 AM BST
behind me and move on with today's rides."
Report MJK April 25, 2018 11:18 AM BST
Hearing the shouting on his left indicates then that it was the spectator(s) standing at the hedge it seems.
Report Ramruma April 25, 2018 11:23 AM BST
Townend said it was a split-second reaction but what was a split-second reaction? He slowed and had a good look round. Was that before the shout or in response to it?

Did any other jockey *or spectator* hear a shout? Was one picked up on the RTE microphones?
Report salmon spray April 25, 2018 11:25 AM BST
It's all very weird. I honestly can't see it as being bnt but you have to wonder if Townend is really up to the job. It all sounds both confused and bizarre.
Report elise April 25, 2018 11:28 AM BST
no one seems to have said anything ram, robbie power made comments above that pointed to jockey error rather than a third party
Report hulk23 April 25, 2018 11:34 AM BST
heard 'roaring' from his left. 

so the only thing on his left was one guy with a bobble hat next to the hedge (who later came onto the track to try and collect the riderless Monalee) and another guy standing next to him on the fence.  after hat man comes back fence guy can be seen pointing at Townend and they appear to be having a heated debate about something - bit of finger pointing from fence man to hat man before fence man walks away ....
Report MJK April 25, 2018 11:36 AM BST

Apr 25, 2018 -- 5:23AM, Ramruma wrote:


Townend said it was a split-second reaction but what was a split-second reaction? He slowed and had a good look round. Was that before the shout or in response to it? Did any other jockey *or spectator* hear a shout? Was one picked up on the RTE microphones?


If he'd looked round and saw the others to his left instead of right he in all probability would have kept riding. Seeing them on his right confirmed what he thought was the fence being bypassed.

Report MJK April 25, 2018 11:37 AM BST

Apr 25, 2018 -- 5:34AM, hulk23 wrote:


heard 'roaring' from his left.  so the only thing on his left was one guy with a bobble hat next to the hedge (who later came onto the track to try and collect the riderless Monalee) and another guy standing next to him on the fence.  after hat man comes back fence guy can be seen pointing at Townend and they appear to be having a heated debate about something - bit of finger pointing from fence man to hat man before fence man walks away ....


Pretty sure one of the fellas at the hedge was from a certain other stable

Report MJK April 25, 2018 11:39 AM BST
Btw think Robbie is being a bit extreme with his 'coming to win the race' comment!
Report hulk23 April 25, 2018 11:41 AM BST
that's automatic speak in a stewards ...
Report hulk23 April 25, 2018 11:49 AM BST
link to video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGJqcJJ38hI

watch at 6:36, Townend is normal.  At this point hat man leans forward as if he is trying to propel his voice. 
at 6:37 Townend looks round, based presumably on what he has just heard from hat man.

now go back to 4:29 - 4:39 and watch fence man's reaction when hat man comes back over.  that looks like an argument between the 2 of them.  presumably based on what fence man had heard.
Report stu April 25, 2018 12:06 PM BST
I'd repeat what I said earlier, it doesn't matter if he thought he heard a 'shout', I'm pretty sure that's not the specified method of telling jocks to go round a jump!
Report cloone river April 25, 2018 12:06 PM BST
Thats were the shouting probably came from hulk.
Report cloone river April 25, 2018 12:08 PM BST
Willy will have ear plugs in Paul today so he wont hear any shouting.
Report hulk23 April 25, 2018 12:11 PM BST
i'd be wanting to speak to hat man and, especially, fence man.  particularly if hat man has connections to a yard, which he may well do as i can't see a member of the public jumping onto the track to try to capture a loose horse.
Report fronter April 25, 2018 12:17 PM BST
Which one are you calling hat man - fence man? Hulk
Report Virgin April 25, 2018 12:19 PM BST
Cheers Hulk Wink

That rear view on the youtube clip @ 6.30 shows he's realised his error and is trying to get back on course (imo)
Report stu April 25, 2018 12:23 PM BST
So can we take it they have now changed the rules for ommitting fences then: 'Jockeys, if you here some geezer yelling at the trackside then please omit the next fence...'Laugh
Report stu April 25, 2018 12:23 PM BST
*hear
Report Honest Bob April 25, 2018 12:32 PM BST
Fair play to the Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board for not letting it drag on any further than it already has and the conspiracy theories to grow ever louder - which they would've done. It's happened, the explanation makes sense and lessons have been learned. We move on.
Report TheAnorak April 25, 2018 12:32 PM BST
Presumably if they were supposed to bypass the last, it would be to the left anyway - i.e the gap between the fence and the stands - otherwise that plastic rail wouldn't be in place where Townened went. And the jockeys are supposed to know which side to go and have studied the map in the weighng room, at least those are the regulations over here.
Report stu April 25, 2018 12:33 PM BST
If I was riding that race in that exact position, not exactly sure how I'd tell difference between a 'GO ON!' and a 'GO ROUND' that's for sure WinkWink
Report stu April 25, 2018 12:34 PM BST
explanation makes sense Laugh
Report Honest Bob April 25, 2018 12:35 PM BST
It was either that or a very bad suicide attempt.
Report stu April 25, 2018 12:36 PM BST
It 'makes sense' he decided to act based on some bloke yelling next to the track Bob??
Report posy April 25, 2018 12:40 PM BST
The two guys standing at the gate are key witnesses and must be easily identifiable and should be interrogated as to what they heard.
Report Honest Bob April 25, 2018 12:42 PM BST
I'm no jockey but I have certainly acted instinctively (and badly with hindsight) at times during my life. Driving is one example, having gone the wrong way and attempting a desperate and dangerous maneouvre to get back on track. In my opinion something definitely panicked him and kicked him into fight or flight mode. I'm not making excuses for him but prolonging the PM certainly won't achieve anything.
Report stu April 25, 2018 12:45 PM BST
That would be a valid excuse for someone completely untrained as a jockey bob - not the case here.
Report sofiakenny April 25, 2018 12:45 PM BST
I agree with posy.
Report Honest Bob April 25, 2018 12:49 PM BST
I was a trained driver, Stu - although I was left wondering afterwards. I dislike much of what goes on in racing where it is bent and will lay into it where I see that but I genuinely don't believe it to be the case here. The guy had a brain fart for whatever reason.
Report Mikael D'Haguenet April 25, 2018 12:51 PM BST
More fun to say the ride was bent imo.
Report Honest Bob April 25, 2018 12:59 PM BST
"interrogated" Posy? What are we talking here? A spot of water-boarding? Make them watch a whole afternoon of Luke Harvey?........Too harsh! Your suggestion would've seemed to be the logical follow-up.
Report mondeoboxerblue April 25, 2018 1:05 PM BST

Apr 25, 2018 -- 5:07AM, cloone river wrote:


Further to the enquiry into an incident approaching the last fence involving Al Boum Photo (FR), ridden by Paul Townend and Finian’s Oscar, ridden by R.M. Power, the following is a summary of the evidence given by both riders.  The summary will be appended to the enquiry report.In his evidence, R.M. Power outlined what occurred. He said that he was coming to win his race before the last and was carried out. He described the incident as unfortunate and said he had no idea why it happened. He said he was not aware of any reason which would indicate that the fence was being bypassed.In his evidence, Paul Townend said that he was riding with his head down between the last two fences and heard roaring on his left which caught his attention. He thought he had to bypass the fence but didn’t know which side to bypass on. He panicked and commenced his move to bypass the fence on the right side but then realised there was nothing on the fence to indicate a bypass was needed and tried to correct his actions but it was too late. He accepted in hindsight that there were no bypass procedures in place. He said he made a genuine mistake and apologised for what occurred.


BUT......Why did Townend NOT come straight out to the press last night and make that statement ???
Why leave it til this morning !
At least the Australian cricket team admitted cheating....and took there punishment....This cheat wont and it will be forgotten in a few weeks.
Just shows how crooked racing is .....

Report adamski April 25, 2018 1:08 PM BST
Going the side of the fence he did think it's far more likely the shout came from behind on horseback from a voice he recognised.
Report posy April 25, 2018 1:12 PM BST
I might hold some right wing views however even I wouldn't inflict an afternoon watching Luke Harvey on anyone. A spot of water boarding to get to the truth would be quite acceptable however Luke Harvey would be a breach of human rights.
Report stu April 25, 2018 1:14 PM BST
It would be fine to say move on, if the incident was something avoided in future - no way of knowing that with weak explanations and enquiries. That's why there is a very valid reason to keep on the issue.
Report Honest Bob April 25, 2018 1:15 PM BST
Grin
Report stu April 25, 2018 1:17 PM BST
Essentially bob, the next time a jock does this, will it be ok to say he 'heard something'?
Report Honest Bob April 25, 2018 1:19 PM BST
I was using the "Royal we" there, Stu, although I will say that I suspect we'll be having exactly the same conversation in a year's time, whether you choose to 'keep on the issue' or not.
Report stu April 25, 2018 1:22 PM BST
A simple solution would be some form of statement from an official source, to clarify this in future cases - i.e. 'hearing someone yell from the trackside will not be considered an excuse for creating carnage and pulling up your horse'...simples?
Report geoff m April 25, 2018 1:24 PM BST
Heard roaring  coming from irelands premier N.H festival crowd approaching the last.
  Not sure what he was expecting or why he would be spooked that for someone of his experience in that type of race.
Converting a roaring from the left into it means dont jump the last takes some fathoming but the brain takes you to some bizzare places and decisions in the heat of battle when the adrenalins pumping.
Report Mikael D'Haguenet April 25, 2018 1:25 PM BST
Seems like you don't believe his explanation stu. So, what do you think really happened, and what was Townend's motivation for not winning?
Report Honest Bob April 25, 2018 1:26 PM BST
While I'm on, my cousin in Puncestown has lost his lion. Give us a shout if you see (or hear) it.
Report stu April 25, 2018 1:27 PM BST
Mikael, to be honest I'm as sure as everyone else - no one seems clear, even the stewards. But, that doesn't mean we should just 'move on' with such a ridiculous explanation as 'heard a yell' either, and accept that as though it's nothing unusual. Seems to be what the enquiry/others are suggesting with a 'sweep it all under the carpet now...'
Report stu April 25, 2018 1:30 PM BST
Converting a roaring from the left into it means dont jump the last takes some fathoming

Exactly the point - to win a top class race with one jump too.
Report pumphol. April 25, 2018 1:43 PM BST
If he was trying NOT to win the race he made a pretty poor job of it leaving himself in front with one to jump Crazy
Report GEORGE.B April 25, 2018 2:58 PM BST
So there was someone on the grassy knoll away to the left who was shooting?
Report GEORGE.B April 25, 2018 2:58 PM BST
* shouting
Report hulk23 April 25, 2018 3:04 PM BST
look at the video - you will see fence man pointing at the carnage (ie look at that), he then turns and points at hat man (you caused that mate) ... there's a heated interaction for about 7 seconds and fence man walks away ...
Report hulk23 April 25, 2018 3:07 PM BST
townend should have ignored him, but whatever he shouted sowed the seeds of doubt in his mind, also made him look round (one second after on video) and when he did the seeds turned into huge trees and he panicked when he saw the others on the opposite side of the track.
Report fronter April 25, 2018 4:26 PM BST
Ok thanks Hulk - there's more to this than we know at the moment!!
Report MJK April 25, 2018 5:43 PM BST
Interesting to see the Elliott group on the inside of the last fence. Nobody at the gap on the outside today....
Report Ramruma April 26, 2018 6:59 AM BST
@hulk23 -- townend should have ignored him, but whatever he shouted sowed the seeds of doubt in his mind, also made him look round (one second after on video) and when he did the seeds turned into huge trees and he panicked when he saw the others on the opposite side of the track.

That sounds about right. It may be that Townend was not concentrating and had entered a trance-like state (and we're getting dangerously close to Mick Fitz's motorway analogy here) and was "woken up" by the shout because if he had been fully aware, it would have been obvious that there could be nothing wrong with the fence: it was not dolled off; there were no arrows; he was in front so nothing could have fallen within the past few seconds.
Report posy April 26, 2018 11:20 AM BST
Even if the Stewards can't be bothered to interview the two characters in question surely at least one of the racing hacks would have spoken to them by now. Egan gives the impression that he can't be bothered with a proper enquiry and just wants to move on.
Report adamski April 26, 2018 11:29 AM BST
As he received a 21 day ban just for dangerous riding, does that mean he would have received no punishment at all if he had not interfered with any other horse and had just gone around the fence?
Report GEORGE.B April 26, 2018 11:48 AM BST
Good comments from Alan Sweetman in the RP today, the local stewards should have referred it the Racing Authority for a full investigation.

Hard to argue with that given the seriousness of the incident with horses and jockeys put at risk, connections and punters left out of pocket, viewers watching one of the showcase meetings of Irish racing left wondering wtf?
An investigation to establish who exactly was doing the alleged shouting. Did the other jockeys hear the same thing? Did the local stewards think to ask them?

An investigation to establish why the public were treated like mushrooms and kept in the dark for hours, and what measures can be taken in future to ensure the public that fund the sport are not treated like f*cking idiots.
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