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25 Mar 18
16:56
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Date Joined:
21 Aug 03
my feeling towards each-way betting has changed over the years. the first bet i ever placed was each-way, and it won (grand national 2005). i thought that's how you were meant to bet. turns out in big fields it is better, especially at the prices i was getting on at.
then i started betting flat and picking winners and i stopped betting each-way. i read a bit online, experimented myself, and I started to believe each-way betting was for mugs. certainly betting under 5/1 each-way is muggy. I still believe this. If you are betting 4/1 shots each-way you won't make money long-term unless you are incredibly good. I then pretty much had a rule of betting win only in every race - okay I had some success but also a lot of near misses.
I am starting to again come round to the idea that each-way bets are a *strategy* of betting. I might take a horse each-way if I think there is a real live danger in the race, or I think the favourite is potentially handy but we *might* get him beat. at odds over 7/1 it's certainly worth going each-way. as long as you are reading the race fairly well you should be placing your horse at the very least, if not winning. But i am still against backing anything under 5/1 each-way as I don't think it's a winning strategy. although I do know a tipster who places everything each-way and he does have success and makes a profit.
I am more inclined to bet each-way in jumps racing than the flat. although on the flat you get bigger odds generally, I feel that most of my near misses come in the jumps. I might miss a horse who is well handicapped or who flies under the radar and pips my horse to victory. I feel this happens less on the flat.
what are your thoughts on each-way betting?
can you make a profit backing each-way 2/1?
then i started betting flat and picking winners and i stopped betting each-way. i read a bit online, experimented myself, and I started to believe each-way betting was for mugs. certainly betting under 5/1 each-way is muggy. I still believe this. If you are betting 4/1 shots each-way you won't make money long-term unless you are incredibly good. I then pretty much had a rule of betting win only in every race - okay I had some success but also a lot of near misses.
I am starting to again come round to the idea that each-way bets are a *strategy* of betting. I might take a horse each-way if I think there is a real live danger in the race, or I think the favourite is potentially handy but we *might* get him beat. at odds over 7/1 it's certainly worth going each-way. as long as you are reading the race fairly well you should be placing your horse at the very least, if not winning. But i am still against backing anything under 5/1 each-way as I don't think it's a winning strategy. although I do know a tipster who places everything each-way and he does have success and makes a profit.
I am more inclined to bet each-way in jumps racing than the flat. although on the flat you get bigger odds generally, I feel that most of my near misses come in the jumps. I might miss a horse who is well handicapped or who flies under the radar and pips my horse to victory. I feel this happens less on the flat.
what are your thoughts on each-way betting?
can you make a profit backing each-way 2/1?
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There are 3 assumptions in your analysis - that I completely DISAGREE with.
Mar 25, 2018 -- 5:08PM, onlooker wrote:
There are 3 assumptions in your analysis - that I completely DISAGREE with.
go on then..
How come you had your first ever bet eighteen months after joining Betfair?
Or are you using someone else's account on here?
fwiw, I very rarely back e/w. I never even know if I should be doubling my stake, or betting half a point e/w.
Or are you using someone else's account on here?
fwiw, I very rarely back e/w. I never even know if I should be doubling my stake, or betting half a point e/w.
On reflection - Perhaps it would have been better to not have posted as such -
Given that it would not be beneficial to me to give away a Professional strategy - on an open Forum - that I worked out years ago, and has served me well ever since.
However - I will respond to two of the - You say ...
"I might take a horse each-way if ....I think the favourite is potentially handy but we *might* get him beat. at odds over 7/1 it's certainly worth going each-way. as long as you are reading the race fairly well you should be placing your horse at the very least,"
That is surely hamstrung Betting Shop punting, before Betfair came along and you could just Lay that FAV?
Given that it would not be beneficial to me to give away a Professional strategy - on an open Forum - that I worked out years ago, and has served me well ever since.
However - I will respond to two of the - You say ...
"I might take a horse each-way if ....I think the favourite is potentially handy but we *might* get him beat. at odds over 7/1 it's certainly worth going each-way. as long as you are reading the race fairly well you should be placing your horse at the very least,"
That is surely hamstrung Betting Shop punting, before Betfair came along and you could just Lay that FAV?
6 add ...
You also say ...
"I feel that most of my near misses come in the jumps. I might miss a horse who is well handicapped or who flies under the radar and pips my horse to victory. I feel this happens less on the flat."
Surely - EVERYBODY gets 'chinned' far MORE OFTEN on the FLAT - where there are FAR MORE Close finishes than over the Jumps.
You also say ...
"I feel that most of my near misses come in the jumps. I might miss a horse who is well handicapped or who flies under the radar and pips my horse to victory. I feel this happens less on the flat."
Surely - EVERYBODY gets 'chinned' far MORE OFTEN on the FLAT - where there are FAR MORE Close finishes than over the Jumps.
^ and - There must be far more, "under the radar," horses on the Flat, than Jumps, aswell -
- as there are more lightly raced, younger, potentially improving, horses on the Flat, too.
- as there are more lightly raced, younger, potentially improving, horses on the Flat, too.
Correct Delta, most of them even do it on 2/1 shots as well and wonder why they get less back than they staked.
Mathematics say it is better to dutch than bet e/w.
If you are backing 1 PT E/W a horse at 4/1 you get 1 PT at 4/1 and 1 PT at 4/5 (1/5 odds a place).
Better backing 1 PT WIN on two 4/1 shots at full odds. You will be better off in the long run.
Obviously there are "bad" e/w races from a bookies perspective but you will not last long consistently backing in those races.
If you are backing 1 PT E/W a horse at 4/1 you get 1 PT at 4/1 and 1 PT at 4/5 (1/5 odds a place).
Better backing 1 PT WIN on two 4/1 shots at full odds. You will be better off in the long run.
Obviously there are "bad" e/w races from a bookies perspective but you will not last long consistently backing in those races.
^ But if you are a proper Form Student ...
You have decided to back Horse A - Because you felt that it could beat Horse B, and the rest of the field.
So ... Why back Horse B, then?
You have decided to back Horse A - Because you felt that it could beat Horse B, and the rest of the field.
So ... Why back Horse B, then?
The old traditional Each Way bookmaker bet is now well past it's sell by date. It is too restrictive in the sense that your stakes have to be equally divided rather than say 30% win and 70% place which you can do on here with the separate place markets.
equine flew • March 25, 2018 5:50 PM BST
Mathematics say it is better to dutch than bet e/w.
If you are backing 1 PT E/W a horse at 4/1 you get 1 PT at 4/1 and 1 PT at 4/5 (1/5 odds a place).
Better backing 1 PT WIN on two 4/1 shots at full odds. You will be better off in the long run.
Not if the horse is 8/11 to place
Mathematics say it is better to dutch than bet e/w.
If you are backing 1 PT E/W a horse at 4/1 you get 1 PT at 4/1 and 1 PT at 4/5 (1/5 odds a place).
Better backing 1 PT WIN on two 4/1 shots at full odds. You will be better off in the long run.
Not if the horse is 8/11 to place
Each Way is almost dead and buried!
How many bookmakers bet 1/4 odds all races at Cheltenham? Was always a headline offer!
How many bookmakers now offer additional places but at reduced terms, ie 1/5 12345 as opposed to 1/4 1234 - where you are only better off if you actually bet the fifth horse.
Then you never know until you actually collect your bet and the returns are less than expected.
Look at Bet £3.65, they have two different markets with lower prices when they pay additional places - so you get doubly $hafted.
The great days of each way thievery have long gone on as racecourse shows are only created using selected bookmakers who are betting traditional place terms but with massively reduced win prices.
If you can bet BOG ew then you can still get some value - but that will soon see the demise of any active account you may have.
How many bookmakers bet 1/4 odds all races at Cheltenham? Was always a headline offer!
How many bookmakers now offer additional places but at reduced terms, ie 1/5 12345 as opposed to 1/4 1234 - where you are only better off if you actually bet the fifth horse.
Then you never know until you actually collect your bet and the returns are less than expected.
Look at Bet £3.65, they have two different markets with lower prices when they pay additional places - so you get doubly $hafted.
The great days of each way thievery have long gone on as racecourse shows are only created using selected bookmakers who are betting traditional place terms but with massively reduced win prices.
If you can bet BOG ew then you can still get some value - but that will soon see the demise of any active account you may have.
E/w betting is fine if the price is big enough and the horse has a serious chance of winning .
Doesn't matter what kind of price you are betting each way at, all that matters is whether or not the place part of your each way bet is +/- ev relative to the market on here ... If and its a BIG if, you can get on at a price close enough to the betfair win market price (increasingly rare but it still happens) to make the place part of that e/w bet viable.
Agree totally with The Goddess. For many years(decades) each way betting was my main betting strategy but I have not placed an each way bet for at least 5 years. Times have changed.
Have 80% stake place market. 20% stake win market. Targeting races with less than 8 runners often gives great value on the place market. But hey, everyone to their own.
the exchange place market decides if it is VALUE or not
the amount of runners and those with a realistic chance of winning
all in the maths
the amount of runners and those with a realistic chance of winning
all in the maths
A 20/1 placed horse (at 1/5th the odds) returns 6/4 on your stake. I don't think the risk/reward is worth it. Go win only and save the e/w part of your stake.
Exactly kembo as you must have equal stakes with the Each Way bet.
s.kenbo, your having 2 bet one to win & one to place the win part is 20/1 the place part is 4/1 at 1/5 the odds 20/1.Can't use total stake because what if the horse wins.
Cadswallop, Clayfield. You bet one point e/w, it places, you get five points back. You can dress it up as much as you want, you're still only getting 6/4 on your outlay.
The horse HAS to win for the e/w bet to be worth doing.
The horse HAS to win for the e/w bet to be worth doing.
The best horses to back each way are favourites..........I always back each way..... but never at prices bigger than 5/1........ they must be 1.5 or shorter on here...
This is the right way to do it. And how I managed to leave university with no debts and a few grand in the bank.
You need to be a small enough stakes punter to get your bets accepted (probably harder now that it was in the 1990s) and to be clued up enough to pick the right horses.
Look through the days racing and narrow down the races where there are only the same number of horses with a realistic chance as there are places available for an each way bet. Take a view on which horses have the most solid place chance. If the short priced favourite is solid as a rock and the contenders are iffy, don't be scared to put it in. Likewise the one paced 9/2 shot rated 85 in a maiden who is second in the betting to a well bred debutant, again rock solid.
Combine them in each way Lucky 15s or similar depending on the number of selections. If you can get any concession think Best Price Guarnateed, obviously go for it.
It doesn't matter if every horse is your bet would register a loss on an each way single for a place. You'd make a profit on 4 2/1 chances being placed. And obviously some of these horses are going to win.
I don't know what the stakes limits on these bets are these days if you include "bad each way races" but most days you should be able to find some horses who are stealing value in the place part of your bets. And as been hinted at above, you can also use the betfair market as a rough guide. A 3-1 shot paying 1.2 for a place. Put it in. A 16-1 shot paying 1.8 for a place. Put it in. You'll find them if you look hard enough.
Good luck.
You need to be a small enough stakes punter to get your bets accepted (probably harder now that it was in the 1990s) and to be clued up enough to pick the right horses.
Look through the days racing and narrow down the races where there are only the same number of horses with a realistic chance as there are places available for an each way bet. Take a view on which horses have the most solid place chance. If the short priced favourite is solid as a rock and the contenders are iffy, don't be scared to put it in. Likewise the one paced 9/2 shot rated 85 in a maiden who is second in the betting to a well bred debutant, again rock solid.
Combine them in each way Lucky 15s or similar depending on the number of selections. If you can get any concession think Best Price Guarnateed, obviously go for it.
It doesn't matter if every horse is your bet would register a loss on an each way single for a place. You'd make a profit on 4 2/1 chances being placed. And obviously some of these horses are going to win.
I don't know what the stakes limits on these bets are these days if you include "bad each way races" but most days you should be able to find some horses who are stealing value in the place part of your bets. And as been hinted at above, you can also use the betfair market as a rough guide. A 3-1 shot paying 1.2 for a place. Put it in. A 16-1 shot paying 1.8 for a place. Put it in. You'll find them if you look hard enough.
Good luck.
I very rarely bet each way these days, the outsiders I back are usually the types to either win well or come last so with this in mind I'd much rather take 80s on here about said selection than the 33/1 e/w available with the books
Must have a flutter 4.20 yesterday goes off at 6/4 ( 2.65 BSP ). With only 6 runners, the each way odds at 1/4 should be around 2/5. Yet in Betfairs place market, it goes off just over 4/6 at 1.68. That is value imho.
80% stake or £80 on the place = £54.40. 20% stake or £20 win market = £33. A profit after commission of around £83.
With this approach and similar place odds, 2 from 3 placed leaves you roughly evens. A winner gives you a profit.
80% stake or £80 on the place = £54.40. 20% stake or £20 win market = £33. A profit after commission of around £83.
With this approach and similar place odds, 2 from 3 placed leaves you roughly evens. A winner gives you a profit.
Yet in Betfairs place market, it goes off just over 4/6 at 1.68. That is value imho.
lol
lol
i'd say you're better off staking 65/35 on win/place. effectively the place bet will cover your win bet
I only bet in handicaps
My average winning sp equates to 6/1
I never bet ew.
My level stake win is a % of my Bank
The Bank/ stake ratio allows a significant losing run
To bet each way , using my staking method , would mean either halving my stake
or doubling my stake.
My records show that more profit is made by putting the whole stake as a win, rather than half to win , half to place.
It follows that if I was to bet full stake win and full stake place, I of course would still make more money by having 2x level stake to win only.
My average winning sp equates to 6/1
I never bet ew.
My level stake win is a % of my Bank
The Bank/ stake ratio allows a significant losing run
To bet each way , using my staking method , would mean either halving my stake
or doubling my stake.
My records show that more profit is made by putting the whole stake as a win, rather than half to win , half to place.
It follows that if I was to bet full stake win and full stake place, I of course would still make more money by having 2x level stake to win only.
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