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stayinin
21 Feb 18 21:54
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Date Joined: 25 Aug 11
| Topic/replies: 357 | Blogger: stayinin's blog
in my opinion one of the worst decision ever had his ups and downs, but surely you show some loyalty the guy just had bad luck on some rides did not deserve the sack imo.
Pause Switch to Standard View Bryan Cooper sacking by Tizzards
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Report TheFear February 23, 2018 10:02 AM GMT
Cooper is one of the few jockeys (Russell and Ruby but can't think of many others) who can stay super cool in a race. He can pull off that tactic of allowing a rival to kick on, say three out, while looking beat himself. The other jockey thinks he has it and those 3 I've mentioned have saved a bit and come storming back to win.

Power not in that company imo.
Report 1st time poster February 23, 2018 10:04 AM GMT
I think most trainers ,owners no this because despite millions spent on horse flesh trained to the minute for races supposedly decided on miniscule margins they put up, sons, daughters,girlfriends,boyfriends,family friends, work jockeys for been loyal,hard working etc.etc
Report impossible123 February 23, 2018 11:11 AM GMT
I do not follow Irish Racing as much as some here. However, in the big races I did follow, and when Cooper was on one of the hot-pots of Elliot or others I'd been more disappointed than encouraged by his riding. His worst at the Cheltenham Festival were onboard No More Heroes in the AB and Don Cossack (DC), no two ways about it - his ride on DC in the King George where DC fell was not much better either after DC was unsettled prior to the 2nd last yet DC was ruched up by Cooper to challenge which resulted to him falling leaving Cue Card tp pick up Vautour despite 2l down after the last.

His behaviour after winning from a steering job on DC in the Gold Cup was unnecessary either eg commenting on the unfair/unsavoury stick he got from punters on social media, etc; if I remember correctly Elliot was not the least worried who Cooper chose between DC or Don Poli with an able substitute in Russell.

I firmly believe he'd not been riding well since his many falls, and dissociation from Gigginstown; he just need to show his mettle in the future and restore his (reputation) in Ireland as he's still relatively young for a jockey. It will not be easy to get a retained position at the Elliot/Gigginstown operation given the up-and-coming Jack Kennedy in pole position, but Mullins could be on-the-look-out for a stable jockey fairly soon.
Report workrider February 23, 2018 7:02 PM GMT
Duncan , I spoke to him after his winning ride at the last Fairyhouse meeting , as MJK says he seem so lacking in self confidence its sad. I think you just don't lose it overnight, sadly for Bryan his lack of confidence is noticed by everyone, and therefore its hard for owners and trainers to put him up on fancied horses . Jimeen as usual showing his lack of class, but we've become used to that , have you EVER heard him praise a jockey, except family member Davy...
Report punchestown February 23, 2018 9:15 PM GMT
Just 1 ride for the whole weekend from what I can see.
Report gpz6316 February 23, 2018 11:24 PM GMT
seems to me theres a lot of shsters looking to destroy this guy . i dont know him from adam . hes proved  he was the very excellence of jockeys . now hes in trouble , the mark of a good man is to pick people up and re-enthuse  them . unless the guys  beyond help  . he deserves the utmost resapect
Report gpz6316 February 23, 2018 11:48 PM GMT
i think hes just a thinker , deeper than most , he considers dark mass , creation ./ ye ,, hes of dawkins
Report impossible123 February 24, 2018 8:25 AM GMT
I agree, I think "we" - those who do not like or think Cooper is a good jockey - ought to lay off him for a bit and allow him the chance and time to haul himself back to from present predicament. I'm sure we've experienced ups and downs in our career and life, and a jockey is no different. Cooper is still a young lad, and deserves another chance, at least.
Report Mikael D'Haguenet February 24, 2018 8:54 AM GMT
Funny how time changes things.

Cooper apparently had a 'steering job' on Don Cossack in the 2016 Gold Cup. Davy Russell was slated no end on here for the ride on Don Poli.
Report dabiroun February 24, 2018 11:09 AM GMT
Well for me I would have liked to see them pick a more unlikely jockey who had not been given the chances that Bryan Cooper had. Maybe someone who had not been given an opportunity since coming out of their claim like Kevin Sexton or someone similar.
Report mickwheblembe February 24, 2018 12:06 PM GMT
The writing was on the wall months ago and why Tizzard employed him is beyond me,It is a simple fact is that Cooper before his injuries would attack the fences and make the horses mind up for it,Now alas Coopers confidence is so shot that the horses he rides do their own thing at fences hence losing lengths in the process,The boy might do as well to take a few weeks out of the game re-focus and gain his confidence back because he was an Up and coming talented rider and you do not lose that overnight As for the Tizzards they are people I cannot take to Joe Tizzard was an apalling rider in general so he has nothing to shout about If Bryan Cooper takes reflective time out re-group he could co e back better than ever.
Report xmoneyx February 24, 2018 12:29 PM GMT
dettori comeback has been remarkable , can a jump jockey do the same
Report ribero1 February 24, 2018 12:38 PM GMT
Why the Tizzards getting stick? As I said previously it appears nobody wants to put him up,hardly the Tizzard's fault.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y February 24, 2018 12:46 PM GMT
Potts wanted him
Report Ibrahima Sonko February 24, 2018 12:52 PM GMT
Dont see how he was sacked by the tizzards, dont know how many horses potts has in the tizzard yard but it isnt enough to be a full time job.

Tizzards prefer Power, Cobden and Scudamore. Probably because 2 of them can ride out very often.
Report duncan idaho February 24, 2018 1:29 PM GMT
mickwheblembe  24 Feb 18 12:06

why Tizzard employed him is beyond me




common knowledge since day 1 that it was on owner's insistence...try to keep up, ace
Report Santry February 24, 2018 1:31 PM GMT
I believe that the full story of Bryan Cooper's present predicament is only known to the insiders in irish racing. There is more here than simply riding ability.
Report Willie Wumpkins February 24, 2018 2:01 PM GMT
Whatever  the reason, and injuries may play a part in his confidence, he is good enough and young enough to come back. Look at who he replaced for Gigginstown and see where he is now after his troubles. Not much sentiment in the game sometimes but quality usually comes through with the right attitude.
Good luck to him.
Report wondersobright February 24, 2018 2:04 PM GMT
santry knows

and quite frankly davy russell v bryan cooper is a no brainer imo
davy every day of the week and twice on sundays
Report Gordon63 February 25, 2018 3:58 PM GMT
russell has never been on of my fav jockeys - but can't argue he's riding well this past year, maybe older/wiser etc but his judgement of pace is top notch and sure gordon is mucho happy to have him riding along side kennedy
Report 1st time poster February 25, 2018 7:23 PM GMT
rather than worry about coopers future can anyone name the horses they think cooper should have gagged up on,and list any horse,s ridden by cooper that lost and have since trotted up under a different rider,according to this thread the golden egg has been found
Report brendrew February 25, 2018 8:35 PM GMT
hope the guy comes back.Needs to rebuild his confidence-steer clear of injury.
Report One Nation February 25, 2018 8:46 PM GMT
Perhaps a shade harsh (as wind op since and yard not in great form at the time), but Cooper wasn't exactly great on Vision Des Flos at Hereford (beaten at 1/4) and next start won by a distance in a Listed Hurdle at Exeter with Tom Scudamore on board.
Report 1st time poster February 26, 2018 4:20 AM GMT
think after his listed win when interviewed tizzard said he had no idea where that run came from
Report sageform February 26, 2018 8:59 AM GMT
Tizzard is not exactly short of jockeys ready and willing to ride his best horses. Brennan, Johnson, Cobden and Scudamore to name 4. There may be races at Cheltenham when all of those are claimed by others but I doubt it. He also has Robbie Power to ride any of the Potts horses plus any others for which he is free.
Report workrider February 28, 2018 2:09 PM GMT
I would love to see Bryan strike gold at Cheltenham even if he only has one ride,his father has a new patron with about 25 horses, maybe one or two of them will step up to the mark and put Bryan back in the spotlight.
Report duffy February 28, 2018 2:24 PM GMT
The way the Tizzards have gone about campaigning the likes of FO this year they should be looking at themselves first about their own competency, where as last year they were the 2nd coming, this year now, with that focus they've not been up to it.
Report isleham February 28, 2018 2:33 PM GMT
is the new patron andrew brooks
Report workrider February 28, 2018 3:00 PM GMT
Correct Isleham.
Report jimeen February 28, 2018 3:07 PM GMT
I’ve a better chance of winning the  Euro Millions lotto twice in a row, than Tom Cooper has of winning a race at Cheltenham.
As for Brian Cooper riding a winner at the festival, the question id be asking would be, will he even be there ?
Report workrider February 28, 2018 3:13 PM GMT
That's why I said he might ONLY have ONE ride please try and follow the thread, I seem to remember you crying aplenty when Davy lost said job, now he's back in the saddle all's rosy in the garden . Talk about sticking the knife in!
Report firstimevisor February 28, 2018 3:19 PM GMT
I wouldn't think Tom Cooper will have a runner this year but he has a hell of a strike there for a small yard with 2 grade 1s in the bag.
I'll be surprised if Brian doesn't pick up a couple of rides there.
Report jimeen February 28, 2018 3:21 PM GMT
You seem to remember a lot of things wonker, it’s a pity that your memory isn’t very accurate.
When Cooper got Russell’s job, I said at the time that it was a perfectly understandable decision as Cooper and Russell were both top class. Sadly that is no longer the case, and Coopers plight is very much of his own doing.
This new patron Brooks that you are on about is Andrew Brooks, the same person who owns San Calvados, currently third fav for the Arkle. I don’t see Cooper on that.
Report workrider February 28, 2018 3:39 PM GMT
Am I reading that Correctly Johnny, I said at the time that it was a perfectly understandable decision as Cooper and Russell were both top class. If that was the case WHY was Davy sacked ? doesn't make sense. Is San not trained in England ? surely Bryan is not retained by him in the U.K ?
Report jimeen February 28, 2018 4:09 PM GMT
Davy and Cooper were sacked because their employers felt they weren’t good enough at the time. On the second occasion they have been proved to be right. Cooper rode a few winners for Brooks earlier in the year but his services look like they are no longer required.
Report workrider March 1, 2018 10:54 AM GMT
Johnny, you seem to be contradicting yourself, your previous post said Davy was top class, now you say its because he wasn't good enough,its either one or the other boyo.
Report jimeen March 1, 2018 11:10 AM GMT
Wonker, you are on here a long time and it’s thicker you have got since you first started posting the complete horses pisss that you have made your speciality .
I shouldn’t bother engaging with you because you have a complete inability to comprehend basic English .
In a previous post I said Russell was top class, and I said he was sacked because he wasn’t deemed good enough by his employers. I wasn’t his employer , you total cretin, so it’s irrelevant what I think as it was O Leary who was doing the hiring and the firing.
If it was up to me then Russell would never have lost his job, but quite obviously it wasn’t . The same as, if it was up to me , I wouldn’t let people bleed the state for decades without  ever doing a stroke of work during that period.
Report impossible123 March 1, 2018 11:24 AM GMT
I do not think the sacking of Russell was solely down to his riding ability; the available, age and talent of Cooper were key to him getting the position riding for Gigginstown.

I believe Russell did have a behavioural issue then. If in doubt asks the stewards at Clonmel steward; his hitting a horse at Tramore was another negative streak. But he is a great jockey.
Report workrider March 1, 2018 11:28 AM GMT
well Johnny delighted to hear you're finally going to have a word with your relations re living off the state,not before time I might add!.Back to the point, Davy gave some cracking rides to some odds on shots that got beat I must say, I know you would NEVER have sacked him, golden goose and all that. Still never mind he's back in the fold now so better times ahead for you and the family I imagine...
Report isleham March 1, 2018 11:29 AM GMT
thought tom cooper mainly broke in brook's young horses and then were passed on so cant see brian getting many winners from his father
Report jimeen March 1, 2018 12:53 PM GMT
The only person who could see Cooper getting Cheltenham  winners from his father was wonker, and that’s of no significance
Report Santry March 1, 2018 1:08 PM GMT
The abuse and lack of respect that has finished the Irish Forum now on display on this forum.
On Bryan Cooper,he really has been unlucky since he lost the Giggy job. Tizzard out of form all season and he never really bought into the Cooper arrangement.I was at Cheltenham in November and I thought his rides on Finians Oscar and Fox Norton more than capable.
What has suprised me is the way he has almost been black balled by the Irish trainers.He can still do the job and I hope something goes for him soon.
Report punchestown March 1, 2018 1:15 PM GMT
thought tom cooper mainly broke in brook's young horses and then were passed on so cant see brian getting many winners from his father

-----------------------------
As long as he keeps the rides it doesn't really matter where they go -Trainer wise,he rode one for Brooks trained by WP Mullins @ Fairyhouse a couple of weeks back.
Report isleham March 1, 2018 1:54 PM GMT
seems unlikely he will ride any coming to england..aiden coleman rides the ventia ones and also on saint calvados with whittington
Report punchestown March 1, 2018 2:17 PM GMT
As far as I know Cooper was supposed to come over and ride the Whittington horses for Brooks "when available (he trains 9 for him) so maybe he still might get on at Cheltenham if his runners get there.
Report isleham March 1, 2018 2:20 PM GMT
cooper is always available..no rides in ireland nowadays..so why is aiden on calvados
i have a share in horse in the yard and didnt sound like cooper would be riding there anytime soon
Report punchestown March 1, 2018 2:32 PM GMT
Apparently Cooper was in the yard  last fall and got the leg up on the Brooks horses,that was then so maybe things have changed since then?
Report neill d March 1, 2018 2:32 PM GMT
Cooper had the same career trajectory that Jack Kennedy has now when he got the O'Leary job. O'Leary wanted the hot new thing and that's why Davy got the boot. Owner wanted something new and shiny.

Cooper is a cautionary tale for the likes of Colin Keane and Jack Kennedy of what can happen to a career.

On why Cooper isn't being used now, I always got the sense in his interviews that he was quite cocky. I think this is something that the other jockeys and the racing fraternity in general never warmed to. I remember hearing Geraghty refer to him as 'Cooper' in interview with absolutely zero warmth in his voice. So that would be reason one for me for his fall from favour, he is not well liked.

The other reason, I think, is that he has lost a bit as a rider. He is giving away ground he shouldn't be going wide, which Elliot referenced in interview. If he said that in an interview, imagine what he was saying to O'Leary. These windy rides did happen, on the big day two, and O'Leary noted it. I remember him completely giving up the inside to Ruby on Nicholls Canyon in the Irish Champion Hurdle, it was inexplicable, he was bullied and you kind of knew then he had lost it.

Owners have been vindicated here, Davy and Kennedy are the strongest riding team any NH owner could call upon probably. Cooper is going down the road of being the next Sam Thomas, he's done. Expect an announcement on his retirement at some point in the next 18 months, nigh impossible to build back up after being on top. Never been done, don't reference Dettori because he waltzed straight into another top job.
Report punchestown March 1, 2018 2:46 PM GMT
Good post Neill,the comparisons with Kennedy is bang on,I would like to think that his career is not washed up at such a tender age.

The Potts horses he got to ride since his comeback were woefully out of form and didn't exactly help propel him back to where he wants to be.

I always thought him to be more shy than cocky when interviewed.
Report Gordon63 March 1, 2018 2:55 PM GMT
i hope there is no implication that either keane or kennedy's career will follow that of coopers? will be interesting if keane can kick on from an amazing year, maybe there could be stable jockey role at Joseph's or a link up with a yard other than his main one at lyons?  as for kennedy, he has definitely grabbed the opportunity presented and possibly (?) this has played a role in davy having a good resurgence with far fewer of the way out the back rides that used to infuriate me and plenty others 5-7 years ago - either ways the maroon monsters are sure to have plenty winners at the festival
Report workrider March 1, 2018 3:28 PM GMT
Neill d, lets not forget that a certain J Burke was the second coming in Ireland a few years ago and look whats happened to him.
Report firstimevisor March 1, 2018 3:43 PM GMT
Never, for one second, has he come across as cocky when interviewed.Shy maybe, as punchestown said, but never cocky.

When Cooper announced himself on the big stage as an 18 year old with that Cheltenham treble(none of which were for Giggy), he was superb. The best I've seen at that age, Kennedy included.

Jockeys get better with age, maturity and experience and don't reach their peak until their mid thirties so it was an utterly ridiculous decision by O Leary to sack Russell when Russell's best years were ahead of him, and replace him with a hugely talented but immature Cooper. The Gigginstown operation was growing fast and was now far too big a job for one jockey - they should have at least 3 jockeys these days - and there was much too much pressure put on a 19 year old by owners who still don't realize the importance of instilling confidence in their jockeys.

Cooper has had a shocking amount of bad luck. A succession of horrible falls causing broken legs, arms and pelvis.Losing the Gigginstown job and suddenly becoming a freelance but with no connection to any yard, and in a country that is totally dominated by a hand full of owners and trainers with no vacancies whatsoever. The death of his former employer and mentor Dessie Hughes who , were he still alive, would have taken him back in a flash. The virus that plagued Tizzard's yard for most of this season. The death of Alan Potts only weeks after offering Cooper a chance to restart his career.

I would say his head is fried right now and its easy to see why. If I were him I would give the rest of the season a miss, travel the world for 6 months and forget about racing for a while.Come back in October, he will be just 26 and still younger than Russell was when he rode his first grade 1 winner,  and start again with a clear head. He's far too good and too young to walk away permanently.
Report workrider March 1, 2018 3:45 PM GMT
Brilliant post Firstimevisor and spot on.
Report 1st time poster March 1, 2018 4:01 PM GMT
ffs he aint been sacked twice for been far to good, you don't put jocks up because they were lucky to have a week in the sun at chelt 4 yrs ago or because they rode the wave at giggy whilst they were at their peak,theres far bette,r more confident winning riders out there at the moment struggling to get rides without anyone worrying about putting bg up
Report isleham March 1, 2018 4:06 PM GMT
nobody knows or wants him now so after a six month break he would definitely be dead and gone for good..racing people have very very short memories
Report corruptus in extremus March 1, 2018 4:10 PM GMT
Elliott will stick with Jack Kennedy regardless of whether Gigginstown have horses with him or not.They could do to Gordon what they did to Willie and Jack will still have a job
Report firstimevisor March 1, 2018 4:10 PM GMT
Jockeys get sacked all the time. It doesn't mean a whole lot. They sacked Russell. They also sacked Willie Mullins and a host of others and some day in the future they will sack Gordon Elliott.
Report workrider March 1, 2018 4:14 PM GMT
Having been on a flight to Lisbon last week its a pity MOL didn't sack one or two cabin staff.
Report jimeen March 1, 2018 5:05 PM GMT
What did you expect on a low fare airline ?
To receive royal treatment is it ?
You were probably trying to make friends with the air hostess, like you do with the trainers at the races.
Report punchestown March 1, 2018 5:18 PM GMT
The sudden death of DT Hughes (RIP) cannot be underestimated in his career as firstimevisor stated would've taken him back in a flash when dropped as he was a sounding board and was the man who put him up on so many of his mounts that brought him to the public's eye.

When his own personal storm(s) pass he will be back imho.
Report duffy March 1, 2018 5:43 PM GMT
neill

I remember him completely giving up the inside to Ruby on Nicholls Canyon in the Irish Champion Hurdle, it was inexplicable, he was bullied and you kind of knew then he had lost it.

when was that?
Report wondersobright March 1, 2018 5:59 PM GMT
think he means the 2m hurdle race at xmas, on identity thief
Report GI MAC March 1, 2018 6:45 PM GMT
If you need an example to define the word conjecture, take your pick from the posts on this thread.....
Report neill d March 1, 2018 6:55 PM GMT
Duffy, It was the 2 mile hurdle at Leopardstown over Christmas, watch from about 3:30 on, Cooper can close the door on Walsh and lets him up his inside, it was the worst bit of race riding at the whole meeting and probably cost him the race

http://www.attheraces.com/form/horse/Identity-Thief/IRE/2851632
Report neill d March 1, 2018 6:59 PM GMT
He is afraid of Walsh there, I don't care what anybody says, afraid to close the door on him because Walsh is a known c*nt and could make life hard for him in the weighing room. That's what I think is happening there.

Davy would've shut the door on Nicholls and made him go around him 100/100. Scahill who rarely comments on how horses are going even points out how well Identity Thief is travelling just on turning in, just as he should've closed the door and made NC go around.

Cooper spat it out there, clear as day, was afraid of something, beginning of the end of him.
Report neill d March 1, 2018 7:00 PM GMT
29 Dec 15  is the race on the Identity Thief profile
Report neill d March 1, 2018 7:02 PM GMT
Sorry wonders, you are dead right. I'd never mix up an English grade 1, just so many tin pot ones in Ireland I get confused.
Report firstimevisor March 1, 2018 7:14 PM GMT
Neill d , sure it wasn't his finest moment but the beginning of the end! And Walsh could make life hard for him in the weigh room?- are you watching too many gangster films? He was entitled to shut the door but didn't. No point in over analyzing this stuff, jockeys make mistakes like that all the time.Its a bit like pointing out a video of Tiger Woods or Rory McIlroy messing up a drive as proof of why they were never any good. If you caught ruby walsh in a good mood he will admit to making many many mistakes. That's race riding.
Report neill d March 1, 2018 7:33 PM GMT
Only a theory first time, but in my opinion, the older heads in the weighing room did not appreciate Cooper getting so much so quickly, and I'd say they made him aware of this.

I've heard stuff about Geraghty and Walsh, not the nicest people when the mood takes them, and Cooper was taking rides from Mullins that Walsh would've felt were rightfully his.

Only a theory, but I note the way they would speak about him when asked about one of his injuries, no warmth there whatsoever. I've seen Cooper and Walsh standing next to each other for RTE TV, no love lost I always thought. I think Kennedy has learned from this and keeps his head down, plays the humble schtick, or these pricks will eat you alive.

It isn't a coincidence that nobody came up to challenge that Walsh/Geraghty/Russell triad, it is the way they have it, its not an accident.

I never read McCoy's book, but the way he treated his wife at Fitzgerald's party over the smoking thing, that was borderline domestic abuse, these guys aren't capable of being ruthless? of ruining a guy to keep themselves on top, I'd say they are personally.

Russell crashed the party late in his career not just because he is a brilliant talent, but because he is even tougher than a Walsh or a Geraghty and would take no sh!t from either of them. Cooper had the talent, but I'd say the boys smelt weakness along with the injuries stuff.

Just my take on it, these aren't nice people, they'd gut ya for a winner!
Report neill d March 1, 2018 7:38 PM GMT
Have also heard Ted Walsh destroy Cooper for rides on beaten horses, including that race above, I have never ever, ever heard him say a word against another top-tier established jockey.

I've seen Robbie Power and Danny Mullins give absolute stinkers around Leopardstown and all we'd here is what great lads they were and what bad yokes the horses were. Cooper got absolutely lacerated by Ted for that ride, and there were other instances after it.

The guys face never fit with the inner circle. I just sense it. Maybe he was too much of a Kerryman for them, and it would be different if he was from the pale, or his dad was an international show jumper, or if he was a Prod.

They never took to this guy and resented how quick he rose, and now they're going to bury him deeper than Arkle, and it will be like he never existed.
Report firstimevisor March 1, 2018 7:47 PM GMT
Any jockey would sell his granny for a winner. I cannot think of a single ride that Cooper stole from Ruby.Can you be more specific.

The triad you refer to of Walsh/ Geraghty/ Russell ( Carberry was there for years, as was cooper and Robbie Power is there now) is easily enough explained. There is only room at the top in Irish racing for a select few. Willie Mullins, Elliott/ Gigginstown, and JP McManus. Their senior jockeys have a massive advantage over the rest, not because they are ruthless savages but because they are vastly experienced good jockeys in the best jobs.
Report firstimevisor March 1, 2018 7:51 PM GMT
I have to agree with G I Mac's 18.45 post. Neill you are losing the run of yourself. Too many conspiracy theories!!
Report punchestown March 1, 2018 7:56 PM GMT
I would imagine the "Lost rides" refer to the horses moved to WP Mullins that Cooper rode because of the retainer?
Report neill d March 1, 2018 7:56 PM GMT
Walsh now rides every horse in the Mullins yard, as we will see with Footpad at Cheltenham who he will ride. He will never again let himself be open to the situation like the O'Leary one where that owner had horses in the Mullins yard, but they were ridden by his retained rider (Cooper).

Walsh addressed that situation, thus Munir and Suede letting Walsh ride, because it is now a condition of having horses with Willie Mullins.

There were plenty of excellent Gigginstown Walsh would've wanted to ride. I'd say he'd have even expected to get the Mullins ones after Davy was sacked. He sorted his situation as we see now with the Munir horses. Talent alone isn't enough, these guys politic as well. look at the cushy number Geraghty worked for himself, avoiding the midweek UK McManus dross in the main.They know how to work.
Report neill d March 1, 2018 7:59 PM GMT
Good old fashioned Irish begrudgery ain't a conspiracy, its a stereotype........because its true!

Wonder where the Coop arrogance stuff came from, because i heard it was the other jocks that peddled that one.
Report firstimevisor March 1, 2018 8:10 PM GMT
Neill, Cooper didn't steal those rides, they went with the job as they did for Russell before that.

He doesn't have the choice of rides on the JP horses in Mullins.

He didn't ride the Potts horses when Mullins trained them.

He doesn't have the choice of the Munir horses either, apart from when Footpad and Seaux Royal clash - if they don't clash then Jacob rides Footpad.

In a nutshell,Mullins calls the shots in the yard but he has no control over the arrangements where Ruby cannot ride ( although personally I can never understand why any owner wouldn't want him on their horses).
Report neill d March 1, 2018 8:13 PM GMT
Jacob would want to ride Footpad you'd have to think, someone has told him he ain't, be it WPM himself deciding or Ruby insisting.

I would think Ruby was not happy with the above state of affairs and requested it no longer happen. Otherwise why wouldn't Mullins just let things go on as they were? Obviously, Ruby has put his hand on someones shoulder and said I want the lot.
Report firstimevisor March 1, 2018 8:23 PM GMT
Not at all. In the Champion Hurdle last year both Footpad and SR clashed. Both were longshots and it was decided that as Ruby was available then it made sense that Jacob would ride SR.

Since then Jacob has been over to ride Footpad even with Ruby available but it looks like the same arrangement will be in place for the Arkle. If either one doesn't turn up, or gets rerouted then Ruby will be the one to lose out.
Report cacique March 1, 2018 8:27 PM GMT

Mar 1, 2018 -- 1:33PM, neill d wrote:


Only a theory first time, but in my opinion, the older heads in the weighing room did not appreciate Cooper getting so much so quickly, and I'd say they made him aware of this.I've heard stuff about Geraghty and Walsh, not the nicest people when the mood takes them, and Cooper was taking rides from Mullins that Walsh would've felt were rightfully his.Only a theory, but I note the way they would speak about him when asked about one of his injuries, no warmth there whatsoever. I've seen Cooper and Walsh standing next to each other for RTE TV, no love lost I always thought. I think Kennedy has learned from this and keeps his head down, plays the humble schtick, or these pricks will eat you alive.It isn't a coincidence that nobody came up to challenge that Walsh/Geraghty/Russell triad, it is the way they have it, its not an accident.I never read McCoy's book, but the way he treated his wife at Fitzgerald's party over the smoking thing, that was borderline domestic abuse, these guys aren't capable of being ruthless? of ruining a guy to keep themselves on top, I'd say they are personally.Russell crashed the party late in his career not just because he is a brilliant talent, but because he is even tougher than a Walsh or a Geraghty and would take no sh!t from either of them. Cooper had the talent, but I'd say the boys smelt weakness along with the injuries stuff.Just my take on it, these aren't nice people, they'd gut ya for a winner!


Russell crashed the party late in his career not just because he is a brilliant talent,

Are you taking the piss?
Russell crashed the party late because the calibre of nh jockey is atrocious, and through attrition got to be sacked and retired by o'leary.


The fall off Clarcam is the only reason Cooper is where he is. He should have lost the leg, mental strength or no mental strength there is no way anyone could come back from that. The other happenings are irrelevant; unlucky in the short term but over time luck evens itself out.

Report neill d March 1, 2018 8:40 PM GMT
Russell's talent would stand up in any era. He got sacked because O'Leary made a stupid call, and they have gone back to him.

Cooper should have lost the leg as you say, well, he lost his bottle and that contributed hugely to him losing his job. Since he has lost the job, he has failed because firstly, he is a shadow of what he was because his bottle has gone, and secondly, he is not well liked.

Geraghty is a shadow of the jockey he was, a bottle job now over a fence and no help in a big handicap, but he is well enough got that his job will never be under threat and he will always have rides as long as he wants to go on.
Trainers won't touch Cooper with a barge-pole, even allowing for his diminished talent, there is more to it than just that, he is being shunned.
Report firstimevisor March 1, 2018 9:08 PM GMT
Whether he is well liked or not by his fellow jockeys doesn't really matter - its not a lovely girl contest. Potts liked him. Tizzard doesn't.O Leary liked him. Then he didn.t. He Liked Russell too. Then he stopped liking him. Now he likes him again sometimes. Such is life. Cooper will bounce back believe me.

As for his bottle being gone, well I don't see it. From very limited opportunities recently he's been riding as well and as brave as ever. We'll see
Report neill d March 1, 2018 10:04 PM GMT
It does, as it does in any career. He ain't bouncing back either. The guy can barely get a ride in a race. He's done.

He should go to England if he has anything left at all. If he doesn't go to England, it is tacitly accepting he is finished because he will certainly never prosper again in Ireland. He is getting about 2 rides a week at present.
Report firstimevisor March 1, 2018 10:54 PM GMT
Form is temporary. Remember all the threads on here over the years about Robbie Power. People saying how he had no drive, ambition, ability, wondering why he didn't go and do something else for a living.Suddenly, after 20 years in the saddle he became an overnight success and the same fellas are raving about how much he's improved lately! All because the arrival of one owner changed the quality of his rides.

Racing is a fickle game. Sooner or later a vacancy will arise somewhere and Cooper will get the call and everyone will assume he's riding much better lately again.
Report MJK March 1, 2018 11:02 PM GMT
Neill how did Geraghty do in that big handicap over fences at Kempton the other day?
Report cacique March 1, 2018 11:39 PM GMT
Cooper has lost his bottle.but Neil d you are being very harsh on him. He was the second coming before the fall.

And I have to disagree with you about Russell. He is beyond pathetic.
Report neill d March 2, 2018 1:14 AM GMT
He won, he's going to win some, but I don't think he's near the jock he was, thought he was windy as fck on Squatometer of Elliot's over Christmas among others in chases.

Robbie has gotten better, improved greatly.

Cacique, I actually like the guy and posted on here months ago that if he goes to England full-time, he will be a huge success, maybe that is his plan, but he will never make it back here now.  just have a sense he's gone, been spit out by the machine. Think he is entitled to feel aggrieved at how little support he has had from other trainers since being dropped.

Whatever about what Russell does, he is an astonishing talent as a jockey. The only one who can go tot to toe with Walsh mentally.
Report cacique March 2, 2018 9:33 AM GMT
Neil d, have to agree to disagree about Russell.

The quality of jockey, both flat and national hunt, these days is appalling!

COOPER has the horse skills to take most of these jockeys to town in his pocket, but unfortunately his head is not in the game.
Report jimeen March 2, 2018 10:09 AM GMT
Anyone describing Davy Russell as beyond pathetic surely isn’t worth engaging with. As far as I’m concerned, the very second you read that statement, then you can safely write that chaps opinion off forever.
As for Coopers head not being in the game, well surely that’s a prerequisite for any sportsman. There’s not much good being talented without the application.
Report workrider March 3, 2018 11:42 AM GMT
Good old Johnny, keeping it in the family I see, never a word from you when Davy makes a howler, yet you berate jockey after jockey on here day after day, how you can live with yourself is beyond me. A Hypocrite if ever there was one are you my friend.
Report jimeen March 3, 2018 11:57 AM GMT
Wonker, it’s pointless me debating anything with you , as you keep coming out with the same old codswallop time after time .
Report workrider March 3, 2018 12:12 PM GMT
Tell me Johnny or even better SHOW me, ONE criticism of Davy by your good self and I'll apologise there's a good lad.
Report jimeen March 3, 2018 12:27 PM GMT
I rarely criticise the top riders, and for that reason it would be hard for me to find evidence of being critical of the likes of Russell , Walsh , Moore , Smullen, Keane etc.
You on the other hand were the initiator of a legendary thread which criticised Ryan Moore . You showed exactly what kind of a numpty you are on that thread.
Report workrider March 3, 2018 12:32 PM GMT
Says it all really doesn't it Johnny, Davy Never rode a bad race, and according to you neither did ANY of the above, so you didn't have to berate them even ONCE......LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report workrider March 3, 2018 12:33 PM GMT
You really should be on the telly ...LaughLaughLaughLaugh I haven't laughed that much in years...LaughLaugh.
Report jimeen March 3, 2018 2:02 PM GMT
Simpletons aren’t hard to amuse as you have clearly shown.
Report workrider March 3, 2018 5:09 PM GMT
Honest guv, they NEVER ride a bad race....LaughLaughLaugh
Report cacique March 3, 2018 7:00 PM GMT
Davy Russell is not the best jockey around,

Besides he got sacked out of Murphy,  then mick O'brien then o'leary, pattern? Awkward maybe.


As for Cooper head in the game being a prerequisite I'm fairly sure Cooper is a much better horseman than most/all of the current jocks.
He's been dealt a bad hand since he burst onto the screen at Cheltenham with the treble.  But he should still ride most of the other jocks to sleep and will get it back when he gets his head in the game
Report 1st time poster March 4, 2018 9:45 AM GMT
cobben was the next big thing at the beginning of the season hardly gets a mention in passing now
Report workrider March 4, 2018 11:50 AM GMT
What about the oldest Bowen, its all about the kid now. A fickle game is this.
Report 1st time poster March 4, 2018 11:55 AM GMT
has cobbden lost the ride to std on politilouge at chelt or is it still his ride
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