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I've really noticed a big change in their successes this season - so much so that its got me thinking over the past few weeks.
I have no statistical data on winners and rides , say the past 10 years , but im asking myself the question - Why we are seeing such an increase of female jockeys winning races on a daily basis ?
I dont think there has actually been a massive increase in the number of female jockeys to make a difference in any statistical study....... and thats what has got me thinking , Why ? - Why the amount of winners is increasing so steeply when the ratio hasn't really decreased - if anything i wouldn't be surprised if the ratio has increased.
I've also noticed that a lot of these plotted horses have female jockeys on board - i just get this feeling that agents and alot of owners are going out their way to book them on their hcap plots and touches in favour of their usual stable jockeys or Jockeys who you would have thought would be riding any horses they thought would be in with a shout of winning- is it just me or is anyone noticing this ?
Is it new discrimination laws or something , pressure groups, or are trainers or owners receiving some incentive or concession - or is it some sort of underlying BHA policy directive and influence on stables that isn't publicly disclosed ? Or is simply where the attitude of the latest group of female jockeys showing increased successes has just simply changed . Who knows . I just dont think this happens overnight ......but it just feels to me that it has.
List of female jockeys of the top off my head
Flat : Hollie Doyle, Josephine Gordon, Sammy Jo Bell , Nicola Currie , Rossa Ryan, Jane Elliot, Hayley Turner, Georgia Cox, Rachel Richardson, Shelly Birkett, Gemma Tutty
Jumps: Page Fuller, Lizzie Kelly
I have no statistical data on winners and rides , say the past 10 years , but im asking myself the question - Why we are seeing such an increase of female jockeys winning races on a daily basis ?
I dont think there has actually been a massive increase in the number of female jockeys to make a difference in any statistical study....... and thats what has got me thinking , Why ? - Why the amount of winners is increasing so steeply when the ratio hasn't really decreased - if anything i wouldn't be surprised if the ratio has increased.
I've also noticed that a lot of these plotted horses have female jockeys on board - i just get this feeling that agents and alot of owners are going out their way to book them on their hcap plots and touches in favour of their usual stable jockeys or Jockeys who you would have thought would be riding any horses they thought would be in with a shout of winning- is it just me or is anyone noticing this ?
Is it new discrimination laws or something , pressure groups, or are trainers or owners receiving some incentive or concession - or is it some sort of underlying BHA policy directive and influence on stables that isn't publicly disclosed ? Or is simply where the attitude of the latest group of female jockeys showing increased successes has just simply changed . Who knows . I just dont think this happens overnight ......but it just feels to me that it has.
List of female jockeys of the top off my head
Flat : Hollie Doyle, Josephine Gordon, Sammy Jo Bell , Nicola Currie , Rossa Ryan, Jane Elliot, Hayley Turner, Georgia Cox, Rachel Richardson, Shelly Birkett, Gemma Tutty
Jumps: Page Fuller, Lizzie Kelly
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Replies: 43
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Rossa ryan is male,most of the female jockeys have improved 500% in the past you could've picked out the female jocks in the race not so easy now and they are far more tactically aware instead of just relying on something like a pace collapse they are winning races by their own initiative and has just risen the standard.Fitness and strength have taken a bit more priority as well and in general its just mythology that women aren't strong enough utter garbage born out by Josephine Gordon..
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Also female jockeys are more likely to be straight(in the honesty meaning of the word), and are more likely to try to do their best on a horse(having a point to prove), than perhaps some of the more experienced journeyman jockeys(possibly bitter and maleable). Gemma Tutty of course rides mainly for her mum! Also possibly some owners like to have a pretty little thing next to them in the parade ring for an ego boost!
I do think that Hayley has rather done the ladies a bit of a disservice by semi retiring at such a young age,(not as if she was expecting a baby), to me they have to hack it over a period of 20/30 years to really prove they're the equal of the men. |
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i think Jockey Coaches have made a big difference,they were never heard of 5 years ago.
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I think the OP is just looking for excuses for being proved wrong about female jockeys.
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Interesting Point Stewart, i can understand that .
What i dont accept is that suddenly many of these female jockeys are being jocked up by a widespread amount of stables on horses clearly laid up for a touch. That is my point - i can't see how a female jockeys strength would have anything to do with this |
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They used to say that some went better for a boy. Now they Go better for a girl. A gentler more sensitive touch perhaps.
I've often used to notice that a horse ridden in a Female Amateur race won next time when ridden by a jockey. |
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A couple more things to add to the above points. I think there is more racing now, especially at the lower level(all weather dross) so more opportunities,the more opportunities they get the more they can show their talents, also general attitudes to the capabilities of women has changed, 20 years ago or more I think there where trainers with a more male chauvinist attitude(not all) unlike today where younger trainers coming through will have grown up with the idea that women should have equal opportunities. Perhaps somebody with the historic stats could look up how many women jockeys Captain Ryan Price used.
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RozelKid 10 Sep 17 17:05
What i dont accept is that suddenly many of these female jockeys are being jocked up by a widespread amount of stables on[/b] horses clearly laid up for a touch[/b]. ------------------- Think you are rather OVER-stating a somewhat perceived observation, there. |
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Edna Bolger changed the landscape when she trained all those winners in Ireland. That helped push through the likes of Andrea Atzeni and Francis Norton and fought against the traditional male domination by the likes of Alex Greaves.
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 Very good. |
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Call me an old-fashioned caveman but I don't back horses with a female up. Its not you its me
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I think it is just a function of supply. 20 years ago stables employed mostly male grooms and would not have even considered giving a girl a chance as an apprentice. Now we have a much higher percentage of girl grooms, they expect to get the same chance at the Racing School and be able to sink or swim as apprentice riders. Once that pool of potential talent is there, some of them will make it through to the top. There is also the issue of weight of course. If you have a horse on 8.3 or less, how many male riders are available? Jo Gordon is currently 10th in the table of wins in 2017 but after that you don't have any more in the top 30 so a long way to go. Contrast that with eventing (and Hunter chasing) where women have always competed on equal terms and are just as likely to win at the Olympics/Badminton/World Champs as men.
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The OP has finally come out with his prejudices as I suspected earlier in this thread. It's all a conspiracy with Doyle and Gordon getting all these winners from horses plotted up with a stone in hand etc.
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This question interested me and I E-Mailed the BHA to ask how many licensed professional female jockeys there are.
Their stupid reply " The BHA is no longer able to provide information like this without a formal request from the individual to info@britishhorseracing.com. This is in accordance with the BHA’s new Data Protection notice, which is accessible via the following link: http://www.britishhorseracing.com/data-protection-notice/ We would be grateful if Mr F.could put his request in writing to info@britishhorseracing.com. When doing so, we ask that he outlines exactly what information is required and the purpose for which it will be needed. Best wishes Ann Ann Saunders MBE Executive Director |
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Perhaps the BHA want nothing more to do with these stone age attitudes within Racing.
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Only 74 pages to work through Oldgit1....
http://www.britishhorseracing.com/racing/participants/jockeys/jockey-search-results/#!?q=&pagenum=1 |
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I've always been in favour of Jockettes and have not usually been put off from backing their mounts with a couple of exceptions who shall be nameless.
I imagine that being naturally lighter they don't have to restrict their diet like the boys. Hayley can ride at 8 stone and Sammy Jo at 7-13 |
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Someone with Computer Raceform should be able to extract it.
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Someone with Computer Raceform should be able to extract it.
Trouble is there is no way of telling which jockeys are female, apart from recognising their names. Looks like too much work for me. For horses, the database tells you their sex, but not for trainers and jockeys. |
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Ramruna. So racing in PC in being gender free.
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top2rated,
There is some good information there when you look into it. http://www.britishhorseracing.com/racing/participants/jockeys/jockey-search-results/?q=#!?pagenum=1&q=Moore |
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Just temporary given the changing attitudes, awareness and shaming of anything even remotely anti feminist therefore trainers need to be at least seen to get open minded to given them chances even at the expense of better more competent male jockeys.
Give it a few years and it will die down but by then we may do like the French and introduce an allowance for the women. Think the allowance is a brilliant idea...this is one of the few sports...if not the only one where women compete against men on a daily basis on an equal footing yet there's a significant difference in physical strength which hasn't been accounted for...the way I see it is if the fillies and mares get a sex allowance then why their human counterparts. |
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Lol checking their names...brings back memories of the old Andrea Atzeni better than Hayley gags that were rampant in here when he started riding back in the day.
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I can think of plenty of male jockeys who could do with an allowance despite having great physical strength.
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I'd agree with sageform, girls are having more winners now cos there's more girl jockeys.
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turner was going top clean up in france but had to travel to a gaff track along a dirt track to ride 1 winner, not exactly ripping it up is she
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Female Jockeys are riding more winners solely due to more opportunities.They have not all of a sudden become strong riders but are merely given more and better rides. I think a lot has to do with the standard of male Jockeys being barely any better. You will see finish after finish where a female will not stand out nowadays but place any female Jockey in a driving finish with the likes of Piggott, Eddery, and Kinane etc and they would stand out looking weak as pee water! Jockeys are of a lower standard these days and with the added extra of a lot more racing the females have flourished!
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to plays devils advocate its hard to look a lot stronger than the girls under todays whip rules,piggott,eddery etc couldn't ride under todays rules and public perception
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Because some people appreciate that there's more than one way to win a race, other than a power-packed finish when getting up on the line by a short-head.
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Other way round, perhaps? The men almost certainly are stronger than the women so perhaps "strength in a finish" is either over-rated, or misnamed, or the female jockeys are better at other aspects of race-riding to make up for it.
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(The "other way round" was replying to kiddykid and 1st time poster.)
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you missed the point
someone said you couldn't spot the difference between a male jock and a lady jock in a finish today but would stand out a mile against the likes of piggot,eddery,mercer etc,but if a male jockey today battered a horse behind 20 times with a banjo like piggott used to it would stand out just as much today as it did 30,40 yrs ago, but todays rules don't allow it |
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I can only really take any jockey seriously until they have ridden without their claim, take Holly Doyle's 2 winners at the end of the Ascot card on saturday, without her claim both those races would have been a lot closer, I doubt she would have won those races with the extra 3lbs.
Holly may turn out to be a decent jockey, but one thing is for sure, Josephine Gordon is the real deal |
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Can you tell that point about jockeys losing their clam to a few particular posters on here please the bloob?
They seem to have a little difficulty in grasping the fact the the few pounds off can be the difference between winning and losing. |
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jo Gordon doing well but getting chances male jocks of similar ability or better can only dream of getting,she,s like a woman on sky or bbc getting a good job to keep the pc brigade happy ,getting on really good horses for good yards early in her career
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66,its only an opinion the experts think only the very best claimers are worth thr weight
if you were allowed to claim 7lb in group ones how many trainers do you think would choose a claimer over say moore ,frankie,soupy sou |
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Josephine Gordon must break the hearts of people like 1st time poster. It took her years to lose her claim due to a complete lack of opportunities during which several other jockeys were fast tracked through their apprenticeship.
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Gordon’s tally includes wins for Hugo Palmer and Sir Michael Stoute but not so long ago, riding a winner for one of the country’s top trainers would have seemed a million miles away. Her first 60 rides yielded a solitary success and there was an 18-month gap between that and her second victory.
Little wonder Gordon almost turned her back on trying to become a jockey — twice. First when her initial job did not yield rides and then when she felt that progress had failed to materialise. ‘I gave up for a few weeks,’ she said. ‘I went back to Devon to decide what I was going to do. I was looking at jobs abroad, not race riding, just galloping racehorses. But I just thought I had to give it one more chance, otherwise I’d regret it. ‘That’s when I got in touch with Lambourn trainer Stan Moore and said, “I want it but it’s up to you to you give me rides”. We got along and he threw everything my way.’ Gordon pinpoints three wins on Moore’s The Burnham Mare last year as a turning point. She said: ‘It got my name out there. A few other trainers like David Evans picked up on me and others followed.’ Now she can even look back on the testing times as a positive. ‘It did get me down but, having now had these winners, I won’t get cocky. I have been in that dark place and I don’t want to go there again.’ |