Dorothy Paget and William Hill

Hmm. Sharpe's Paget book was published just a month or two before he left Hills after 45 years. Probably unconnected.

She bet in millions. She always backed her own horses, but according to racing expert Professor Wray Vamplew: 'Financially her sojourn on the Turf was a disaster, costing her over £3 million (£90m today). This was in addition to her vast gambling losses.

She bet huge sums daily. Her largest recorded bet was £160,000 (£4m today) to win £20,000  -  and though this was successful, others were not.' In 1948 alone she lost over £100,000, the equivalent today of £3m.

No wonder bookies employed people to stay awake all night just to take Dorothy's calls. She would even sometimes bet on a race that had already run, promising the bookies that she did not know the result.

Restless, chain-smoking a hundred a day, she was the ultimate compulsive gambler.

great read

William Hill was born in Birmingham in 1903. He started taking bets at the BSA works during WW1 when in his teens and also collected bets using an old motorcycle. He then opened a credit office in the city. Business boomed as ex servicemen who survived the war gambled with their gratuities, which, accounting for inflation, were far larger than those received by ex servicemen a generation later.
He made enough money to move to premises in Jermyn Street, London. During the period, 1929 - 1939, he became best known at the greyhound tracks and the newly opened pony racing course, Northolt Park, with its advanced facilities and some high staking punters - William Hill  made a book on The Rails, taking many of these large wagers, knowing in advance that some of them were destined not to win.
He then moved onto the bigger racecourses in 1941 where he layed principally at Salisbury and Newmarket. At the cessation of hostilities Hill quickly became the number one racecourse bookmaker, laying horses to huge amounts. He had several things going for him: he was in the right place at the right time; he hired Phil Bull as a close assistant, managing his horses, formulating the ante-post and big meeting tissue prices and as an all-round advisor; there was all the black marketeers trying to multiply their ill-gotten gains, and the ex-servicemen merrily punting away their gratuities (my father among them, unfortunately); no off-course betting shops, betting tax, nor live televised racing. So just how did he become `King of the Ring` in such a competitive era with such fearless layers as Percy Thompson, Max Parker and Willie Preston in competition. There is no doubt he was a sharp-minded man with   some very astute people working for him.......but there was also  darker side.
Some five years or so after WW2 a young office assistant was handed £2,500 in cash and told to deliver it in person to Fred Harkus at the Dorchester Hotel in London`s Park Lane (enough then to buy a nice semi-detached house). Harkus was a good friend of William Hill and agent to many top jockeys of the era. Back then it was the quite common for bookmakers to have top jockeys on their payrolls. Most often a jockey would be riding to the trainer`s instructions, but sometimes he would be riding to the orders of a bookmaker. The fee to the bookmaker for pulling a horse (usually the favourite) - in Hill`s case - would be odds to £100 the winner. So if an 8/1 shot won, the crooked jockey would receive £800. Stories abounded of William Hill`s `Bagman`, but nothing could ever be proved. This odds to £100 fee was known as `The Usual`. The £2,500 was the payment for pulling a runner at one of the big meetings where the race was won by a 25/1 shot of course - probably cheap at the price.
William Hill also had the police in his pocket. Before betting shops opened for business in 1961, the only way one could get a bet on legally was with a credit office - and cash betting here was strictly forbidden. However Hill flouted the law time and again, taking thousands a week in cash bets at his credit office. He normally had two minders in his office: one of them was Tommy Farr, heavyweight champion who took the great Joe Louis the full distance - and some say, beat him. A bent policeman would ring up and tell Hill that he would be calling round at a certain time and to leave some cash on display: the policeman would call, pocket the cash and be gone.
There were other examples of unscrupulous behaviour: At a salisbury meeting in 1949 there was an even money favourite. Hill confidently called 5/4 until he had cleaned up most of the money in the ring on that horse. It was beaten and the jockey received `The Usual`. The clerk received a £25 bonus and the minder, Tommy Turner was also tipped. Tommy Turner was the son of race-gang leader who had protected Hill in his early days.
Dorothy Paget was(again) the victim of villainy. On this particular day she had a hot favourite running at Taunton and placed one of her `Banco` bets on it - this usually meant at least £10,000. A message was received on the course by an employee: instructions were from Hill`s office to make sure a certain jockey is given `The Usual`: "he knows what it is for...and he will be parting company". The horse did not win, and the jockey did indeed part company.
William Hill stepped down from his pitch halfway through the Royal Ascot meeting of 1955 and never personally made a book on course again, although he did employ Willie Preston to lay and bet for him for a few years. He had, during the 1940`s, bought two studs, Sezincote and Whitsbury studs from the estate of the late Sir Charles Hyde from where he bred 1949 2,000Gns and Derby winner Nimbus, plus his own 1959 St Leger winner, Cantelo.
William Hill died suddenly at the Rutland Hotel, Newmarket in October, 1971, where he was attending the yearling sales.
He left £15 million.......around £160 million today (the 1970`s was a decade of huge inflation). Politically he was an ardent Communist - which will surprise many. Mind you, like many communist regimes, he was in complete control centrally, authoritarian and corrupt.

Thanks
HENRY

Good read

Nice to know the bookies of today are no more untrustworthy than their predecessors

A good read about Billy Hill

She evidently used to place bets on her horses late at night after the race and Bookies accepted them whether they had won or lost.

ged  - good one 

With today's Pixel separation in PHOTO-Finishes - Henry and Violetta would not have shared a Dead-Heat.

Wonder which one would have got the race.

Brilliant stuff - HENRY.

Had to look up Henry's Choice in the November Handicap as that was, even, before my time.

Cubone has not posted for some time, unfortunately - his son was posting for him for a while.

Blimey - could that man, like yourself, tell some tales of a sadly gone bygone era of the halcyon days of the turf.

The Honourable Dorothy Wyndham Paget was born in 1905 to Lord Queensborough and Pauline, daughter of immensley wealthy american, William C. Whitney. Pauline died when Dorothy was just twelve years of age. Without her mother`s guidance Dorothy became extremely wilful, throwing tantrums at servants and being expelled from several schools.
On 21st February 1926 it was her 21st birthday. She came down for breakfast, and there on the table was an envelope from her solicitor containing a cheque for £1million pounds, with plenty more to come.
In her Deb season, many handsome young sons of the aristocracy would ask for a dance, only for her to suddenly walk away halfway through a waltz. Rumours began to swirl around the ballrooms of Mayfair that Dorothy was just not like the other girls. It is untrue that she became bitter after being jilted; it was just that she found men detestable. She once told a cousin that she was once kissed by a drunken frenchman at Claridges Hotel on the Champs elysees and was so repulsed that "I had to rush to the toilet to throw-up".
May, her cousin, was the only family member to whom she was close. She fell out with her father and didn`t appear alongside him again until, in that famous photograph, leading in Golden Miller after winning the 1934 Grand National.
Not many people knew she possessed a fine operatic voice. Her tutor had high hopes for her in this sphere but Dorothy soon became bored and looked for something more exciting. She loved speed and motor racing replaced opera. She bought three Bentleys from Tim Birkin`s stable, from which he had great success, alongside his racing partner, `Babe` Barnato. Birkin held the track record at Brooklands and Phoenix Park, Dublin. He described Dorothy as one of the finest lady drivers he had seen. However, she soon tired of motor racing - because she couldn`t bet on it! As William C. Whitney had owned the 1901 Derby winner, Volodyovski, horse racing was never far from her mind. DP went into racing with relish and loved the excitement of the horses and.....the betting ring.
Unfortunately, word soon spread of her enormous wealth among the unscrupulous. She would give buying agents a blank cheque to buy yearlings she liked - mostly on account of breeding, less on looks, conformation and soundness. Breeders would often operate with friends at the sales to `bid-up` yearlings they knew she was determined to have. Some less-than-honest bookmakers were also determined to have a slice of this very big cake. Almost immediately DP bet in large amounts. It was said that in her second year of ownership she took over £60,000 out of the betting ring. Of course there were some enormous reverses. Fred Darling thought Colonel Payne a certainty for the Cork and Orrery at Royal Ascot and told her to put her shirt on it. For Dorothy, £10,000 was a `Banco` bet; `Double Banco` was £20,000 and upwards. She started with £10,000 and went on from there, right up until they had reached the post. At no stage of the race was the horse travelling and finished out the back. She could be very hard on her trainers and the relationship with Darling was quickly ended. She placed no blame on jockey Gordon Richards, and indeed became very fond of him, asking him to train some horses for her after he retired from the saddle. He trained for her right up to the time of her death without ever exchanging a cross word. Her biggest ever bet was £20,000 - £160,000 @ 1/8. She sat at the tape machine awaiting the result. When the right result came in, it was said to be the only time she had sweat on her forehead. Dorothy then got up and handed out fivers all round. One Double Banco that went all wrong was when one of her favourite horses was a hot favourite at Sandown:It was cruising home after jumping the last, clear. Halfway up the run-in Bryan Marshall began easing down, just as one was flying from the back and got up close home. Marshall said he failed to hear the warnings from the crowd: he was fined £25 by the stewards. At the time there were rumours about that one.
Strangely enough, her favourite racecourses were Windsor and Folkestone. She would rather have a Banco punt on a short-priced runner at Folkestone than win a prestigeous prize at a top racecourse with the same horse. She once had a horse brought over from Ireland to run in a £100 Seller at Folkestone and land a 1/6 punt. It often seemed that betting mattered more than anything else.
One thing that did perhaps matter more though was her relationship with the beautiful Olga de Mumm - usually called Olili. After Golden Miller won the Grand National, Dorothy spent the next eight months on the banks of the Rhine at a village near Wiesbaden, Germany as a guest on the estate of Madame de Mumm. Dorothy became a completely different person there: charming and genteel. Only when she got on the phone to her trainers did the old Dorothy re-emerge: authoritarion and demanding!
Just before the outbreak of war, DP moved out of London to a house named Hermits Wood at Chalfont St Giles, Buckinghamshire and took her secretaries with her. Many junior secretaries and others assistants came and went, but her stalwarts were Miss Clarke, Miss Williams and Miss Charlton (later Mrs Charlie Smirke 3rd), later to be joined by Miss Puckeridge; Miss Donald and Miss Benton were personal assistants. Later another secretary called Barbara Allright joined; a beautiful blond married lady who immediately took Dorothy`s eye. She lived a separate life to her husband and soon gained favour in being given a room upstairs, next to Dorothy - all the others, with the exception of Olga, slept downstairs. She soon began accompanying DP to race meetings. Barbara and Olga later became good friends and `shared` Dorothy. DP`s only close male friend was Sir Francis Cassel. He was a bachelor who lived in a nice house in Luton. He called everyone "dear" or "darling". He had a very good-looking chauffeur called Donald: he was most upset when Donald got married. Sir Francis was a concert pianist and DP would attend his recital concerts at the Wigmore Hall. The only male employee at Hermits Wood was the odd-job-man, and he was under strict instructions never to go within a cricket pitches length of his mistress. There were some strange rituals there: at Christmas, none of the staff were allowed to go elsewhere. On Christmas Day they would all have to line up in front of Dorothy to receive their presents. Each in turn had to step forward, curtsey or bob, and receive the present and say, "thank you Miss Paget". It is thought that about this time she owned around 400 horses - horses-in-training, yearlings, foals, mares, show jumpers, eventers, pointers, show horses etc.
During the war she never scaled back; she owned more horses during that period than the next six biggest owners put together. During the much-curtailed 1941/42 period she never won a chase and had 40 consecutive losers: it makes one wonder how much she must have lost then. Her most memorable wartime NH racing day must have been at the Cheltenham Festival when she had a hat-trick on the same day, including the Champion Hurdle with Distel - ridden by Bobby O` Ryan, father of the late Tom O` Ryan, RUK presenter and journalist. Her number one jockey, by choice, was Dan Moore, as she considered he had no equal. All three winners were trained in Ireland. Her greatest Flat day was of course when her Straight Deal won a substitute Derby on Newmarket`s July Course.
After the war, in his first season with DP (1946/7), Fulke Walwyn was leading trainer with 60 winners: total value, £11,115. The leading owner was Mr McDowell with £11,125 (a whole £10 more) for the solitary win of Caughoo in the 1947 Grand National. Fulke Walwyn was DP`s most successful trainer numerically with 365 winners in the years between 1946 and 1952. Her training fees must have been enormous. One of her horses did not make its racecourse debut for three years, prompting the Daily Express to report in 1949: few owners could afford to keep a horse in training for three years at £6 per week. DP sacked her trainers with great regularity; some, like Walter Nightingall and Basil Briscoe sacked themselves; ironically the trainers of Straight Deal and Golden Miller. Altogether she had seventeen different trainers during he racing years. The only racing men she had much time for were Fulke Walwyn, Gordon Richards, Ivor Anthony, Dave Dick, Frenchie Nicholson and Charlie Rogers, manager of her Ballymacoll Stud in Ireland and who she always referred to as Romeo Rogers. Later in life she would only go racing if Gordon Richards or Frenchie Nicholson told her she could have a banco bet.
Her gargantuan appetite meant that in her fifties she became hugely overweight, weighing 21 stone. She ate a lot of fish and chips and loved Game - especially woodcock, if she could get one. Woodcock on toast was traditionally known as the `toff`s breakfast`: it has a straight gizzard, and so one can just pluck it, roast it, without any gutting and carve straight into the sides.
The last thing in life she did was to pore over the Racing Calendar, and her final words were: "Now we must get these entries off to Weatherbys first thing". An hour later one of her maids found her dead. It was the morning of 9th February, 1960. She had rarely left Hermits Wood in those final years. Winston Churchill hated leaving his home, Chartwell - he could see the beautiful Weald of Kent from his high-up windows. He would say: "A day away from Chartwell is a day wasted". No idyllic views for Dorothy, but lots of ladies buzzing around her, which she loved. Sadly, she died intestate. Of the £3,803,380 in her estate, all but £736,000 went to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. She meant to leave a will when she was 55 years of age...........she was just a couple of weeks short of that age when she died.

Great read, thanks for posting.

She was certainly a character of her day...there seems to have been plenty of them in racing during the 30s thru to the early 60s...

Around the period of the Great War a young British army officer in Ireland was leading his mare down a track to a farmhouse. He did not know the farmer but knocked on the door, to be greeted by Mr Laurence Geraghty. The officer explained that he had been on leave from France and that leave had expired, so he had to return there. He had been doing some hunting in Co. Meath but now had nowhere to stable the mare and asked if Mr Geraghty would be good enough to keep the horse while he was in France and that he would pay his dues on his return, to which the farmer agreed. Summer turned into winter and no sign of the officer nor any kind of contact. Mr Geraghty took it upon himself to breed from the mare, which was called Miller`s Pride. Her first two foals, May Court and May Crescent were minor successes in England in  point to points and under Rules.
Miller`s pride was later mated with Goldcourt at a fee of five guineas. Goldcourt never raced and his sire, Gold Miner, used to break blood vessels. The product of Goldcourt and Miller`s Pride was of course, Golden Miller. The quite handsome yearling was bought at Ballsbridge by Tipperary farmer-dealer, Paddy Quinn for 120 guineas. Later, as a gangling three-year-old, he came under the care of Irish horse dealer, Mr. N. Galway-Greer. He was then spotted, unbroken, in a field by Leicestershire hunter-dealer, Captain Farmer, who then wired a young Cambridgeshire trainer called Basil Briscoe, a gambling man who had just won £500 at a game of Chemin de Fer; Briscoe wired back saying that he would offer £500 for the horse, which was accepted. Golden Miller was then transported to Longstowe, the Briscoe family manor house and training establishment. On arrival there, Briscoe and staff were shocked at the appearance of the horse: a shaggy coat as thick as a rug and covered in a thick layer of mud. He was sure he had made a terrible mistake, which seemed to be confirmed when he took the horse out hunting for the first time. Golden Miller was so slow and clattered every fence and tried to uproot every hedge.
The first outing on a racecourse was no more encouraging either, where he ran moderately in a poor hurdles race at Southwell. Basil Briscoe was downcast, made even worse by a comment from his head-lad, Stanley Tidy: "Golden Miller is a damn good name for a damn bad horse". The horse and his young lad just did not get along either. Briscoe then decided to hand care of him to an Irish lad called Mick Boston: the change was immediate and horse and groom got on extremely well.
Basil Briscoe then made one of the worst decisions of his life - he sold the horse to one of his owners, Philip Carr (father of England cricketer and Nottinghamshire captain Arthur Carr) for £1,000. The horse then ran a very promising race at Newbury with highly encouraging comments from jockey, Bob Lyall. This was followed by hurdle wins at Leicester and Nottingham, then a 2nd place at Newbury in his first chase. The final two runs that season were on the flat, ridden by Bobby Dick and Jack Leach. Philip Carr then contacted Briscoe revealing the bad news that he had cancer, with only months to live and instructed him to sell everything.
Basil Briscoe was at a private gaming club one evening and asked a wealthy young lady, Dorothy Paget, over to a corner of the room and said to her that for £10,000 she could buy "the best hurdler in England and the best chaser in the world". She agreed straight away and in less than eighteen months Insurance and Golden Miller had won two Champion Hurdles and Two Cheltenham Gold Cups.
In his second season Golden Miller ran eleven times, winning five of them. His first four races were over hurdles followed by four chases, a bumper, then another chase. His third season brought about enormous improvement, winning his first four races including his first Cheltenham Gold Cup at the age of five. He was given huge weights in some of the other races, often 12st 10Lbs (Cloister won the Grand Sefton carrying 13st 3Lbs). His final race that season was his first attempt at the Grand National where he blundered badly at bechers on the second circuit; this shook his confidence and he hit the next fence so hard that he fired Ted Leader out of the saddle.
1933/34 was to be Golden Miller`s golden season, becoming the only horse ever to win the Gold Cup and the Grand National in the same season. He had won the Gold Cup comfortably and followed up at Aintree in similar style, winning by 5 lengths in a record time. He carried 12st 2Lbs: top weight of 12st 4Lbs was carried by his great rival, Thomond II who ran his heart out to finish 3rd, 10 lengths behind the winner. Fulke Walwyn, who both rode and trained a National winner reckoned every pound in weight over 12 stone was worth 4 lengths. On that basis the gap would have been much closer; also Billy Speck said he was hampered at the canal turn. The experts found it extraordinary that such a small, thin horse (which is what Thomond II was) could carried such big weights over so many huge fences and over an extreme distance and yet go so close to winning. One commentator of the day wrote that he was no bigger than a ham sandwich; another wrote that he was all wire and whipcord. He was 3rd again the following year to Reynoldstown, and by roughly the same distance. Ironically, Thomond II and Golden Miller were owned by cousins John Hay "Jock" Whitney and Dorothy Paget.
During the 1934/35 season Golden Miller won his first four chases at Wolverhampton, Leicester, Derby and Sandown. Briscoe then rested the horse, giving him a light preparation for the Gold Cup and then producing him 100% for the National. However, with the prevailing firm ground connections of Thomond II, at the eleventh hour, decided to go for the Gold Cup instead of the prevously planned Coventry Cup. Basil Briscoe called a meeting with Jock Whitney and urged him not to run his horse as it could result in a punishing race for them both and destroy their respective chances at Aintree - and this is exactly what happened.
In the Gold Cup these two brilliant horses pulled away on the far side and jumped as one from fence to fence `till they touched down together at the last. It was a tremendous battle up the hill with Golden Miller easing ahead close home to win by three parts of a length. To those who were there it was accounted one of the greatest races ever seen. Thomond II`s rider, Billy Speck toasted Golden Miller`s rider, Gerry Wilson saying: "well done mate. There`s one thing, when we`re old and grey and sitting back enjoying a drink, we can tell them how we did ride at least one great horserace one day in our lives". Billy Speck rode Thomond II to be 2nd a fortnight later in that dramatic 1935 Grand National, but soon afterwards suffered a broken back, sustained from a fall in a Seller and died six weeks later.
The mid 1930`s was a disastrous period for jump jockeys. Around that period, six riders, amateur and professional, died as a result of falls. Another disaster was that Hitler was on the rampage on the european mainland and war loomed. Racing was curtailed and the recruiting sergeants had been busy combing the stables, resulting in trainers losing many of their most active staff. Many jockeys enlisted. No less than three Grand National winning riders of the period were to lose their lives, killed in action.
Australian-born Bobby Everett carried out many dangerous operations whilst serving in the Fleet Air Arm, but after yet another hazardous mission over the sea was never seen again. He had won the 1929 National aboard Gregalach.
Lt Cmdr. Frank Furlong, from a sporting Irish family, also joined the Fleet Air Arm: he was one of those who torpedoed the Bismarck. Later, after surviving a crash south of Iceland and spending 72 hours in a rubber dinghy he was killed when attempting a crash-landing in his damaged plane. He had won the 1935 race aboard Reynoldstown for his father, Major Noel Furlong, who both owned and trained the horse, in a record time (disputed), that beat Golden Miller`s a year earlier. Reynoldstown won again the following year, ridden by another amateur, Fulke Walwyn.
Pilot-Sergeant Mervyn Jones was a member of the famous Anthony family from Wales. Before riding Bogskar in the 1940 Grand National a senior officer asked Jones if he had passed his navigation exams. "Yes" he replied. "Then go and navigate Bogskar round Aintree, and if you don`t we`ll have to put you through another navigation exam". He won that Grand National alright, beating the gallant Mac Moffat, who had also been 2nd the previous year. Mervyn Jones flew out on a mission in April, 1942, never to return. His sister married Evan Williams. Also riding in the race that year was Kim Muir, who was also later killed in action. One who had a narrow escape was top flat jockey, Tommy Weston, winning rider of that brilliant racehorse and sire, Hyperion. The ship Weston was on was torpedoed by an enemy submarine a good distance away from the west african coast. The "Abandon Ship" order was given. Unfortunately, they were in shark-infested waters. Of the 800 who perished it was estimated that 700 were killed by sharks in a mass killing frenzy. It was sight Weston never got over. He spent his retirement years in poverty and died in 1981 aged 78.
Tommy Cullinan, who rode Shaun Goilin to victory in 1930 joined an anti-aircraft battery, then shot himself in a fit of depression.
When you see those old newsreel films of jockeys walking into the parade ring wearing their greatcoats you often wonder, looking at them, which ones survived. They were doubly-brave men. There`s not much doubt though that today`s jockeys would do exactly the same.
..............to be continued

Cloister was set to carry 13-3 in the 1895 Grand National, and 3 weeks before the race they bet 5/1 Cloister, 100/6 bar, but for the 2nd year running, he suddenly started drifting in the betting and was taken out of the race, thought to have been got at. In 1893, he won the race by 40 lengths carrying 12-7 in a record time that stood for 40 years.

It was Thomond's rider, Billy Speck, who sustained his fatal injury in a seller.

These are tremendous posts, HENRY the Seventh, but it would help a lot if you hit the return key twice at the end of each paragraph, in order to create a blank line before the next one.

Thanks.

Poethlyn was 3/1 fav to make it a hat-trick in 1920, but fell at the first. He was set to carry 12-7 again, and many people thought that was unfair on the rest of the field, as he'd won with that weight the year before, and many thought he only he had to stand up to win. In expected warm-up races, he had been set to carry 13-10 at Birmingham on Feb 11, and Hurst Park on Feb 22, but was taken out on the day of both races. At Aintree, an inspector of courses described Valentine's in 1920 as 'just over 5ft, about the same width, with a ditch on the landing side, with a drop of about 6 and a half foot'.

An excellent read, ged. Thank you for posting. I think my father said that Poethlyn carried that 12-7 on bottomless ground in 1919.

It was Cloister who forced the weights down to 9-7, and so was partly to blame for Lutteur III having to give away as much as 41 lbs. Prior to 1894, the lowest weight had been 10-0, but Cloister had won so ridiculously easily in 1893 with 12-7 that the handicapper felt he had to make a change to give the others a chance. He actually meant to give Cloister 12-12 for 1894, but a clerical error meant that when the weights were published, he had 'only' 12-7. That's partly why he was immediately made a very short-priced fav - he was considered 5 lbs 'well-in' due to the error. But in the end it was irrelevant, as he was removed from the race a few weeks beforehand, as was the case the following year, when no handicapping mistakes were made.

On the subject of jockey injuries, Cloister was 2nd in the Grand Nationals of 1891 and 1892. In the latter, he was an 8yo carrying 12-3, and was ridden by Mr John Cottrell-Dormer. 7 days later, JC-D won the Scottish Grand National at Bogside on Lizzie. Then 8 days after that, on a Saturday afternoon at Sandown, he took a bad fall on Miss Chippendale in a valuable hunter chase (1500 sovs to the winner; the 'Grand International Steeplechase' later on the card was worth 300 sovs). In the process, he took a kicking, and lost an eye as a result. That was the end of his race-riding.

Cloister, bred in Ireland, and a big, strapping animal, was by Ascetic, which is where he got his great jumping and staying abilities from. Even though he was a very moderate racehorse Ascetic dominated NH breeding for almost a score of years and was the top sire as regards number of winners in a season on no less than 17 consecutive years. He sired Grand National winners Cloister (1893), Drumcree (1903) and Ascetic`s Silver (1906), as well as siring the dams of National winners Troytown (1920) and Sergeant Murphy (1923). However, Cloister`s dam, Grace II, was so poorly thought of that the local postman was allowed to do his round on her.